And that's a Vorta saying that. So, yeah. SCE are miracle workers. That's the job.Keevan in Rocks and Shoals said:
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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
More than that, Straak is going to be in charge of the project.
The Rock Whisperer
His directorship of the 40 Eridani A Design Bureau is no coincidence.
Additionally, all the upcoming member ratifications are going to increase our crew income by a ton. I did an estimate a while ago, and with the revealing of the Honiani major affiliate contributions, I'm likely being too conservative there. We're talking about ~4 O/E/T increase over the next half decade just from affiliations, major affiliations, and member ratifications alone!
Well, Kumari was commissioned at the start of 2302, or 2301 EOY, so your dates are one year off. If you shift all Sol-related dates one year back, it works out much better.Yeah, the dates don't really line up well at all unless we posit a second three-megaton berth that was decommissioned for some reason. Or blown up by the Klingons or otherwise lost in the early 2290s.
Something like:
2280Q1-2285Q2: NX-2000 Excelsior prototype construction period at Sol.
2285Q1: Crew deducts for USS Excelsior.
==LOTSA EMBARRASSMENT HAPPENS==
[Awkwardly, while 'Tiny' may no longer be in Starfleet service, "Mr. Adventure" might be.]
2285Q3-2286Q4: NX-2000 USS Excelsior completes refits to function at regular Starfleet standards, though not five year mission capability, at the Sol shipyard. Follow-on NCC-2001 and NCC-2002 are ordered for Sol berth. Second three-megaton berth built at Andor.
2287Q1-2290Q4: NCC-2001 Excalibur construction period at Sol; Excalibur is built from the keel up with the full set of modifications needed to be five-year-mission capable. NCC-2003 is ordered and assigned to the Andor berth.
2289Q1-2293Q4: NCC-2003 Courageous construction period at Andor.
2291Q1-2293QX: NCC-2002 ??? construction period begins at Sol.
==KHITOMER HAPPENS, CARTWRIGHT CONSPIRACY REVEALED==
2293QX-2294QX: The President, taking personal command of Starfleet in the wake of the Cartwright conspiracy, authorizes continued Excelsior construction on schedule, as a symbol of Federation unity and commitment to exploration. Personal appeals from Kirk play a significant role in this decision. NCC-2002 is slightly rushed into service for political reasons, in order to recommission the new ship as USS Enterprise promptly, after the decommissioning of NCC 1701-A.
2294QX: Former NCC-2002 build commissions as NCC-1701-B USS Enterprise. Captain Kirk lost aboard Enterprise during commissioning trials.
2294QY: Many Andorians view the Cartwright Conspiracy as an attempt by a human-dominated Starfleet to 'fight the Klingons to the last Andorian.' Anti-Starfleet terrorists from an Andorian secessionist movement, smuggling antimatter charges, manage to gut the three-megaton berth at Andor. Lor'Vela shipyard is shut down, not to reopen until the Kahurangi admiralty.
2294QY: [Optional: Lt. Cmdr. Nash ka'Sharren of the USS ??? foils attack on the one-megaton berth?
2295Q1-2298Q4: Excelsior production continues at Sol regardless. NCC-2004 USS Sarek is completed in Sol shipyard.
2299Q1-2302Q4: NCC-2005 USS Kumari is completed in Sol shipyard.
Even better, the USS Enterprise Kirk incident happened in 2293, not 2294, according to memory-alpha.
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Speaking of which... @OneirosTheWriter, this is an omake that hasn't been threadmarked yet.
Well then...
Let me just link what must be the most unholy union of fiction for you: Ship's Administration (Worm/StarTrek/SeaQueens)
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
SeaQueens isn't KanColle.Speaking of which... @OneirosTheWriter, this is an omake that hasn't been threadmarked yet.
Well then...
Let me just link what must be the most unholy union of fiction for you: Ship's Administration (Worm/StarTrek/SeaQueens)
It's taking the whole "ships have spirits" thing somewhat more literally.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Honestly, looking at the profiles of the Constitution-A (and its supposedly nearly unchanged appearance in the Constitution-B) vs Gravitas Hunt's renders of the Renaissance, they do look substantially different enough. Renaissance shares obvious design cues from the Excelsior, with a secondary section that looks less like a cigar and more like ...whatever you call the shape of Excelsior's secondary hull.
In any case, the Tal Shiar already calls the Renaissance the G-type according to AKuz's omake, and unless inter-service rivalry is so large as to deliberately designate an upcoming prominent Federation ship class differently, I'd think they'd just stick with a single code:
edit: more comments:
Small correction: Ambassadors are being built at Sol-4.
Hey! Constellations were actually worthy cruisers back in the 2280s to 2290s as part of the Klingon border defense strategy. Rapid response forces to bolster local defenses, and cheap enough to mass produce, unlike the venerable Constitutions. That said, it's reasonable for the Romulans to take current Federation sentiment of the Constellation (it's bad lol) and backdate it for its entire history. I imagine the Klingons have (or had) a different outlook on the Constellation.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Enterprise:
"I like Bolo stories. Though I think my very favorite twentieth-century fiction is Saberhagen's short story Wings out of Shadow."
[smiles]
Well see, there's Kantai Collection (the ships are physically fanservice-ey girls), and then there's what I'm doing, which is a bit different.
What I've been doing is, the ship has a personification, and you can visit it- but it's under "vision quest" rules, not under "real life" rules. Only in a very specific sense of the word 'reality' is any of this 'real.' This is why Nash only ever sees the spirit of Enterprise when she's dreaming, and why the literal title of the omakes where said spirit appears is Dreams. Furthermore, precisely because the ship's personification exists only for a highly personal and subjective sense of the word 'exists,' different people experience it differently.
Tisana Bessle saw Enterprise as, for lack of a better term, a friendly warrior-angel. Worf would see her as an (initially) hostile one. Both see only a fraction of her true spiritual nature, but it's the fraction that speaks most intimately to them.
Scotty saw Enterprise in his dreams as the USS Enterprise. As a man who'd deck Klingons for her honor's sake, he surely could make contact with the spirit if he cared to. And I'm quite sure he did... but he understood the physical body 'underlying' that spirit well enough to encounter her on her own terms, rather than trying to imagine it in human terms.
Nash sees Enterprise as a beautiful woman because she really, really loves her ship- but doesn't know her like Scotty did. The same goes for Kirk, although the two felt different ways about women and that colors (colored) their interactions with the spirit.
Samhaya Mrr'shan sees Enterprise as a big, powerful, supernatural talking lioness, a being that is to her sort of like a centaur or a sphinx would be to us. Not a subject for attraction or love, but for friendship and loyalty and a sort of big-sisterly awe and inspiration.
So basically, what you see depends on how you understand the metaphysical significance of "this is the ship." And on whether you really know that ship. Nash may never see her new flagship, Kumari, in spirit, though I wouldn't rule it out.
And if the old Connie USS Kongo had a spirit and you met her... Well, I'm pretty sure that to those few who may have known her, she didn't dress up in a weird variation on the theme of miko robes. She didn't yell "DESS!" all the time and do batty things and glomp admirals. At least, you wouldn't see her doing those things unless you, personally, had come to know and love that ship- and unless you, personally, had a very, VERY strange idea of what the USS Kongo was really like, at heart.
...
Of course, I also try to make everything I do compatible with the idea that it really is all just a string of interrelated stress-induced dreams. However, this is something of a 'death of the author' interpretation; I accept that this interpretation exists and don't intend to rule it out., but it's over my metaphysical dead body.
Okay, to be fair, the hulls DO look different. But then, the refit Constitution-class looks significantly different from the original design visually. The nacelles have been completely rebuilt, the largely non-glowy deflector dish is replaced by a blue glowy one, there is much higher reliance on torpedo armament (if the movie vs TOS plotting is any guide).
Suffice to say that it's one of those eternal "lumper versus splitter" debates. You can argue for a fundamental break in the design lineage anywhere from the 2245-era Connies to the 2315-era Rennies, but WHERE do you draw that break? There's no one place to do it that's obviously much less arbitrary than any others. And all four models (Connie-nil, -A, -B, and Rennie) share certain fundamental characteristics of layout, all are built on roughly the same size hull, and the Renaissance has nearly identical performance to the last-generation refit Constitutions with the sole noteworthy distinctions of being significantly more durable and better furnished.
So do we 'split' the lineage into three or four distinct types? Or 'lump' them into four subtypes of the same basic design? I mean, the Rennie looks more like an old Constitution than the modern Atlas V rocket looks like an old Atlas I rocket.
I can see the Tal Shiar and the equivalent of Naval Intelligence disagreeing, actually. Interservice rivalry can be fierce.
Docana:
"Oh hi there, little birdie of prey! Wanna go FAST together?"
[bounces happily, breaks Warp Twelve in a space-blistering sprint]
Klingon Captain:
"...Eepy."
- Location
- Patriarchova
Speaking of which... @OneirosTheWriter, this is an omake that hasn't been threadmarked yet.
Well then...
Let me just link what must be the most unholy union of fiction for you: Ship's Administration (Worm/StarTrek/SeaQueens)
Oneiros, we need an update. The thread is getting weird again.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Interestingly, the OG Connies had Six fore tubes and one rear with a magazine of 400+ torpedoes.
Whereas the Refit Connie had the two fore tubes in the "neck" with a magazine of 144 torpedoes.
Something clearly changed. Presumably energy weapons became more powerful and maybe the tubes became much faster firing?
It's sleep time in Australia, he can't save you for another five or six hours.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You should check the "Watching this thread." Thing
HE'S HERE RIGHT NOW!
(Also he just liked some of my posts)
- Location
- Australia
Well, each major Shipyard has...
A major central Starbase-sized installation to serve as
-C&C
-Home for a research team
-Workbee/Shuttle/Tug maintenance yards
-Habitation
A number of stations dedicated to various manufacturing roles
The berths themselves
Warehousing platforms
Test facility stations
Security Picket facilities
At this stage, Utopia Planitia Fleet Yard Central One is probably approaching the size of Earth Spacedock, it has four Captains purely on the 3mt berths, but has to support well over a hundred small and utility craft and in-system transports, the processing and industrial plants are probably the size of Outposts, and in terms of crew I haven't even begun to venture a guess.
If you are in command of Utopia Planitia, you are in charge of what is most likely a sizeable chunk of Mars' orbital real estate, and dozens of megatons of hardware, and thousands of personnel. It's a Command all to itself.
Which is why it gets a Rear Admiral billet to run it all.
Ack!
I think you need to redo your timezone conversions. It's 3pm here in Queensland, Australia so it's 1pm over in Western Australia. Most people wouldn't consider that sleep time.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Alternately it was realized 400 torpedoes was just really excessive.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
They also reduced the tube count to a third.
Whoever thought 400 torps was excessive would faint if they saw a Kelvin Connie and her 148 torpedo tubes.
2 fore, 2 aft, 72 per broadside.
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Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
True, but some of that is probably still because they weren't thinking they'd fire 400+ torpedoes in a few engagements. You tailor your tubes and magazine to what you think you will actually use. If you have 400 torpedoes, you have lots of tubes because you intend to actually fire them all.
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
Didn't realize David Weber designed the Kelvinverse Connies.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Yeah but Kelvin Connie has tubes like she's rocking VLS, and has no intention of reloading in action.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Okay, let's try that again then.
2280Q1-2285Q2: NX-2000 Excelsior prototype construction period at Sol.
2285Q1: Crew deducts for USS Excelsior. Cpt. Lawrence Styles chosen to command the new explorer.
==LOTSA EMBARRASSMENT HAPPENS==
Late 2285: NX-2000 USS Excelsior completes retrofits to function at regular Starfleet standards, though not five year mission capability, at the Sol shipyard. Follow-on NCC-2001 and NCC-2002, benefiting from the redesign work, are ordered for Sol berth. A 2.5-megaton Excelsior berth is commissioned at Andor.
2286: Major scandals shake up Shipyard Operations, both due to the unsatisfactory condition of the Excelsior prototype, and due to the extremely poor condition in which NCC-1701-A USS Enterprise (originally to be commissioned as NCC-1738 Mikasa) was launched. Shipyard Ops remains under extreme scrutiny for the next several years, but responds gracefully under pressure after some initial troubles.
2286Q1: NCC-2001 USS Excalibur begins construction at Sol- under the aforesaid scrutiny, but with the advantage of preliminary results drawn from Excelsior's space trials. Unlike the significantly flawed protoype, Excalibur is built from the keel up with the full set of modifications needed to be five-year-mission capable.
2287: Work on Excalibur is proceeding on schedule and by all appearances in a satisfactory manner, according to an independent review commission. The go-ahead is given to expand the Excelsior project. NCC-2002 is ordered for completion at Sol after Excalibur launches. NCC-2003 and 2004 are ordered and assigned to Lor'Vela shipyards pending completion of their superheavy berth.
2288: Lor'Vela's Excelsior berth is completed.
2289Q1: NCC-2003 USS Courageous begins construction at Andor.
2289Q4: NCC-2001 USS Excalibur commissions at Sol.
2290Q1: NCC-2002 USS Miracht begins construction at Sol.
2292Q4: NCC-2003 USS Courageous commissions at Andor.
2293Q1: NCC-2004 USS Sarek begins construction at Andor.
==KHITOMER HAPPENS, CARTWRIGHT CONSPIRACY REVEALED==
2293Q4: The President, taking personal command of Starfleet in the wake of the Cartwright conspiracy, authorizes continued Excelsior construction on schedule, as a symbol of Federation unity and commitment to exploration. Personal appeals from Kirk play a significant role in this decision. NCC-2002 is slightly rushed into service for political reasons, in order to recommission the new ship as USS Enterprise promptly, after the decommissioning of NCC 1701-A.
2293Q4: Former NCC-2002 build commissions as NCC-1701-B USS Enterprise. To appease the Tellarites, a recently completed Miranda-class escort, one of the last frigates to be finished prior to the end of the Rogers admiralty, is christened as USS Miracht.
2293Q4: Captain Kirk lost aboard Enterprise during commissioning trials. There is a brief delay in laying down the keel of the next explorer at Sol; pre-Khitomer this ship had been scheduled to commission as NCC-2005 USS Kumari.
2294Q2: Many Andorians view the Cartwright Conspiracy as an attempt by a human-dominated Starfleet to 'fight the Klingons to the last Andorian.' Anti-Starfleet terrorists from an Andorian secessionist movement, smuggling antimatter charges, manage to gut the construction equipment at the three-megaton berth at Andor. Lor'Vela shipyard is shut down, not to reopen until the Kahurangi admiralty.
2294Q2: Optional: Lt. Cmdr. Nash ka'Sharren of the USS ??? foils attack on the one-megaton berth.
2294Q2-2294Q4: Federation resolves to continue Excelsior production at Sol regardless. NCC-2004 USS Sarek frames and components are salvaged from the Andor shipyard to be assembled in Sol shipyard.
2295Q1: USS Sarek resumes assembly in the Sol three-megaton berth; the terrorist attack has set back construction by approximately a year.
==ROGERS ADMIRALTY BEGINS==
2297Q4: NCC-2004 USS Sarek commissions in Sol shipyard.
2298Q1: NCC-2005 USS Kumari begins construction at Sol.
==KAHURANGI ADMIRALTY BEGINS==
2301Q4: NCC-2005 USS Kumari commissions in Sol shipyard, completing on schedule despite supply issues during the late Rogers admiralty.
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- Location
- Patriarchova
Easy answer is that sometime in the early/mid twenty-fourth century, there were improvements in torpedo launch or guidance technologies that made it optimal to carry a few powerful torpedoes instead of a lot of weaker ones.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Kelvinverse Connies are also like, the size of a Galaxy, and have two-story-tall saucer windows (because the designers literally copy-pasted the saucer of a Connie-A and used the transform function to double its size to fit the ship).
And their nacelles are affixed directly to the thin outer wall of the shuttlebay without any visible link to the warp core.
What I'm getting at is it's probably best to ignore the logic behind the Kelvinverse's design choices.
- Location
- Patriarchova
Honiani approve.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
If you expect to have to fire spreads of torpedoes numerous times on a five year mission without restocking, especially if you do stuff like use torpedo casings for dead bodies or repurpose them as probes... you could go through a lot of torpedoes. Remember how Voyager winds up with like negative twenty-eight torpedoes over the course of the series? Yeah. They stocked Kirk's Enterprise to make sure that WOULDN'T happen.
Thing is, in the movies the Connies fire torpedoes as the decisive weapon in combat almost all the time, whereas in the TOS era they rely much more heavily on phasers.
My theory is that there were major advances in torpedo design, and that the refit Connies mount larger, more capable torpedoes. Which meant storing fewer of them in the magazines and having fewer tubes in the same available volume. BUUUT the torpedo tubes they do have are far more capable and effective.
[Then I portray the Constitution-B refit as having massively souped up the Constitution-A's phaser armament, which hadn't improved much over that of the original 2245 design]
MICRO-OMAKE: THE BUSIEST BEE
Eddie Leslie:
"Yeah. Now see, I KNOW how Patty Chen handled it, she's got a duotronic computer bank between ears that I keep wanting to check for points. And I know how Shrai handled it- she burned out and did the next best thing to retiring. Poor soul. But me? You know how I do it? You know who's really running it all?"
[pauses, points to a nearly invisible yellow-and-black blur at a desk over in the corner and smiles.]
"Dizzy. If they ever move me out of this place, I'm going to have to leave my secretary behind. I hate to do it, but I owe it to the Fleet."
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
There's a significant problem with this plan. You stock the ship with the number of torpedoes you expect it to use before it has to restock, yes. But Kirk's FYM wasn't out in the middle of nowhere. He was often near or even in Federation space, frequently returning to starbases or the like, and his ship certainly didn't carry enough supplies of much more critical materials like dilithium for the warp core to go for five years without restocking.
More seriously, though, there's a much harder cap on the number of torpedoes you carry. Torpedoes are used in combat. It is almost a certainty that the ship will only fight a relatively small number of engagements before it takes sufficient damage it has to return to a base for repairs. (Especially since you're fighting alone as a FYM ship, so you can't even random-chance to "They shot everybody else.") The torpedo supply is only intended to cover it for that many engagements (and a half, maybe, just in case you use a lot in one). At that point it may need to have the entire magazine replaced, never mind restocking on torpedoes.
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I hope Oneiros canonizes Dizzy se we can have her running Utopia Planita some day.