[ ][LADY] Increase Mobilisation Rate by +10
[ ][LADY] Act as Doctrine Team
[ ][LADY] Convey a write-in request to <Non-Member Target> (Variable results)
[ ][LADY] Lobby to have an <Affiliate Member> join the war effort (Will begin to build support in that world)
[ ][LADY] Lobby Council on your behalf (Chance of random war support gains)

I'm currently voting for Lobbying the Council... does anyone think there's a good case for having Kahurangi conduct external diplomacy instead?

We could ask her to reach out to the Honiani and ask them about joining the war effort. Or the Ked Peddah. Though maybe it's too early, with negotiations still ongoing.
 
It seems to me that we probably want slightly more mobilization than we plan on buying, but not too much more. If we plan on buying 20 points of assets, we should have 25 to 30, for example, which would let us capitalize on opportunities that come up like Kahurangi and Eriksson. If we plan on buying 20 and have 40 that's a waste.

I think our list for things we want before the war starts would be:
15 for an external diplo team for the Ked Paddah
10 for 2x heavy industry
10 for another Engineering team
5 for Eriksson
3 for more runabouts
=43
Therefore, I don't see a need for more than 30 points per turn of mobilization. We have enough for immediate needs plus extras over the next two turns. It's even less if you argue against external diplo teams or against more HI.
 
It seems to me that we probably want slightly more mobilization than we plan on buying, but not too much more. If we plan on buying 20 points of assets, we should have 25 to 30, for example, which would let us capitalize on opportunities that come up like Kahurangi and Eriksson. If we plan on buying 20 and have 40 that's a waste.

Remember that we're not buying 'mobilization', we're buying 'internal diplomacy teams'. Once we're at the point where we're starting to feel a bit nervous about spending more resources, we can retask them to boost war support.
 
2314.Q4 - Meet the Arcadians
Factions of the Arcadian Empire of Morshadd

The Imperial House of Morshadd

Leader: Emperor Addrad Nithad
House Colours: Pink, White

At the heart of the Arcadian Empire is the Imperial House, or House Nithad. Deferred to, at least publicly, by each of the other Houses of the Empire, it is more truthfully a first among equals. It does, however, preside over Morshadd, the homeworld of the Licori, and own the impressive starbase in orbit. In addition, the only capital grade ships maintained by the Empire are under the direct control of the Emperor.

The Emperor has considerable power over the Houses and the Empire, however, they are also balanced in many ways, as a thick network of alliances and favours among houses and major institutions make it difficult to act decisively. Acting against the mentats would create too many losers with too few winners to have a feasible chance of success. This is exacerbated when you consider that the key advisers of every noble of note are also mentats, who are protective of their place within society.



Source of: Heavy Fleet Units, Infrastructure, External Diplomacy Assets

The Houses Major
House Kortennon of Gammon

Leader: Baron Sergen Kortennon
House Colours: Orange, Blue
Planet: Gammon (2C)

The brutal and vicious Kortennon have long ruled their estates and provinces with an iron fist and an attitude to labour that would make a Klingon prison warden blanch. The extent of how far the Kortennon may go when extracting the last drop from their subjects is a large part of what started turning the opinion of the Diplomatic Service against the Arcadian Empire in the early days. It was reckoned that any political system that could embrace the Kortennon under its umbrella was not a political system that should be tolerated.

The Kortennon are fierce traditional rivals of the Tartresis, going back to near-mythic times. For as long as has been remembered, there has been a Kortennon, there has been a Tartresis, and there has been enmity. It does not look to be changing any time soon, even though they fight alongside each other for their Emperor.

The Baron Kortennon patronises a number of mentats. In fact, there are few mentats within his land that do not owe their fealty direct to the House. The social pyramid of Gammon contracts sharply and rises high. The Kortennon also have little compunction about forcing people through the process, though careful sureties against disloyalty are of course taken. As a result, the Kortennon have a relatively powerful advantage in full mentats, but this is somewhat countered by their coerced nature.

Source of: Heavy Industry, Engineering Teams

House Tartresis of Calamar
Leader: Duke Lugis Tartresis
House Colours: Green, Black
Planet: Calamar (1D)

The Duke Lugis holds one of the five nominal Ducal titles of Morshadd, but far more importantly, rules one of the Houses Major. The noble Tartresis hold great esteem within Licori society, being widely liked and admired by, basically, all except the Kortennon. They govern well and fairly, but maintain the strongest of the House militaries. They also support a number of smaller colony worlds, and conduct construction of many orbital systems.

The Diplomatic Service feels that the Tartresis, along with the Bene, are the two best options for effecting serious change within Licori society. However, it will be difficult to split the Tartresis off from the Imperial House during a time of war. If war commences, this avenue will likely close.

Source of: Internal Diplomacy Assets, Engineering Teams

House Ixira of Ixaria
Leader: Countess Menach Ixira
House Colours: Silver, Purple
Planet: Ixaria (2D)

The Ixira have many of the pure research mentats of the Licori, and are the House that did the most to inadvertently bring about the war with the Ked Paddah. All of the starship designs used by the Arcadians were designed first and foremost by House Ixira. Vast factories and orbital plants are responsible for many of the warp cores utilised by the Arcadians, and it has been a prime target for the Ked Paddah. Unfortunately, the system is very well protected with minefields, additional outposts, and rumoured superweapons that can overwhelm individual ships.

The Diplomatic Service believes the Ixirans will be by far and away the least receptive to the idea of restricting mentat activity.

Source of: Heavy Industry Assets, Doctrine Assets

House Bene of Gesseria
Leader: Duchess Jerzai Adarr
House Colours: Red, Green
Planet: Gesseria (1E)

Spies, provocateurs, and saboteurs, House Bene are crafty and owe their status as a House Major largely to their ability to manipulate their way into and out of trouble. Though not economically or militarily the mightiest of the Houses, their services are nonetheless used far and wide. The world of Gesseria is a lush Class M planet across most of the surface, but a quirk of the planet's geography makes for a vicious desert region at the equator. Life under the Bene is not as free as it is under the Tartresis, but it is certainly freer than it is under the Kortennon. Traditional roles are passed on among the subjects, in a process that would not be unknown to feudal villagers, even if 'traditional' occupations like electro-plasma joiner or energizer coil technician would be baffling to them.

It is believed by the Diplomatic Service that the Bene are one of the two best candidates to pursue if we wish to orchestrate political change within the Arcadian Empire. However, they warn that we may not like what we end up with; the Bene are very savvy customers.

Source of: Recon Assets, Doctrine Assets

The Houses Minor
A wide variety of smaller houses, mostly planet-bound, also exist. These have little impact on the wider political stage and, while they cannot be totally forgotten, are difficult to specifically target due to their disparate nature. They provide a considerable amount of industrial and economic benefit. They are best able to wield political power when they can agree as part of the Red Cloister, a council of noble houses. However, this is not the most common state of affairs.

Source of: Industrial Assets, Internal Diplomacy Assets, Recon Assets

The Mentats
Mentats are a distinctive feature of Licori society as a whole. This is, in fact, the second attempt of the Arcadians at a space age. They were on the cusp of warp travel when a disaster involving sentient AI destroyed large tracts of the world and solidified power into five major polities: the Imperial House and the four Houses Major. As a result, the Licori, who have a naturally strong pre-disposition to maths, and had already developed a powerful level of genetic manipulation, developed a process to replace AIs, or any computer capable of supporting an AI. As technology developed, the return to the stars forced the Licori to begin to adapt some computers, but these have all been used in extraordinarily strict conditions, including a heavy compartmentalisation.

These new mentats had a red tinge, and operate with a reduced lifespan. Due to their sharply boosted intelligence, they are prized commodities. Mentats do come in various types, depending on how in-depth the process to create them went. The full process produces the classic mentat, the one encountered most frequently by outside forces. This is often done outside of normal channels by particularly gifted people with a drive to see their ideas come to fruition. When a Licori scientist is taken by an theory, they may go down this path, and basically burn away everything but the thirst for knowledge and the legacy of making their mark on science. Lesser versions of the mentat process produce a number of people who provide essential services for the Licori, such as processing the economic equations, managing starfaring processes, and the like. They also serve as highly valued and trusted advisers to the nobles.

These lesser variations on the mentat process dilute the effect, but also dilute the cost, and allow those who undergo them to act for longer.
 
One thing that might be a workable demand is "Your full mentats stay inside your borders, and there will be no experiments outside those borders". The mentat advisors aren't the type to go abroad too much, so they wouldn't see that as an existential threat.

Another might be limitations placed on those who go full mentat (in where they can go and what they can do, supervision and so forth). Really, the 'lesser' mentats aren't likely to be too much of an issue; it's those crazy obsessives that are a danger.

The Licori might be reached ala their trauma about sentient AI - if a parallel between sentient AI and crazed full mentats can be drawn, then they might well be somewhat amenable to more control over those extreme cases (and, hell, I would wager the Houses would rather *like* having control over those powerful but erratic mentats).
 
The Houses Major
House Kortennon of Gammon

Leader: Baron Sergen Kortennon
House Colours: Orange, Blue
Planet: Gammon (2C)

The brutal and vicious Kortennon have long ruled their estates and provinces with an iron fist and an attitude to labour that would make a Klingon prison warden blanch. The extent of how far the Kortennon may go when extracting the last drop from their subjects is a large part of what started turning the opinion of the Diplomatic Service against the Arcadian Empire in the early days. It was reckoned that any political system that could embrace the Kortennon under its umbrella was not a political system that should be tolerated.

Harkonnens. Fuck them.

House Tartresis of Calamar
Leader: Duke Lugis Tartresis
House Colours: Green, Black
Planet: Calamar (1D)

The Duke Lugis holds one of the five nominal Ducal titles of Morshadd, but far more importantly, rules one of the Houses Major. The noble Tartresis hold great esteem within Licori society, being widely liked and admired by, basically, all except the Kortennon. They govern well and fairly, but maintain the strongest of the House militaries. They also support a number of smaller colony worlds, and conduct construction of many orbital systems.

Atreides. Good guys.

House Bene of Gesseria
Leader: Duchess Jerzai Adarr
House Colours: Red, Green
Planet: Gesseria (1E)

Spies, provocateurs, and saboteurs, House Bene are crafty and owe their status as a House Major largely to their ability to manipulate their way into and out of trouble. Though not economically or militarily the mightiest of the Houses, their services are nonetheless used far and wide. The world of Gesseria is a lush Class M planet across most of the surface, but a quirk of the planet's geography makes for a vicious desert region at the equator. Life under the Bene is not as free as it is under the Tartresis, but it is certainly freer than it is under the Kortennon. Traditional roles are passed on among the subjects, in a process that would not be unknown to feudal villagers, even if 'traditional' occupations like electro-plasma joiner or energizer coil technician would be baffling to them.

Bene Gesserit. Are not telepaths, but still better manipulators and 'wizards' than Betazeds because bullshit space nuns training.
Will out-diplomance FDS if they are a quarter as good as BG from the books.

Overall, it's a good thing we did not start the war, because of Not!Atreides loyalty to the Emperor.
We should probably approach Emperor, Tartresis, Bene, maaybe Minor Houses, show them our 'stick' and say to tone it down with the crazy scientists who blow up stars for the thesis.
As a carrot we can dangle destruction of Not!Harkonnens, because they are like Syndicate - ruthless, entrenched and won't stop bothering everyone until we deal with them
 
One thing that might be a workable demand is "Your full mentats stay inside your borders, and there will be no experiments outside those borders". The mentat advisors aren't the type to go abroad too much, so they wouldn't see that as an existential threat.

Except it really isn't a working demand. They're working on artificially inducing supernova's.

What you're saying is basically :

"What if we gave North Korea permission to develop thermonuclear bombs, but made them promise they wouldn't fire them at us."

Nobody is going to believe they'll keep their promise if push comes to shove. The war supporting factions would never accept it.
 
Last edited:
Seems like two problematic areas: the crazy "full" mentats and the Kortennon.

The full mentats just need to be made illegal. Strengthening house control over mentats would do it. Can't be done at the level of the Emperor, but can be done at the level of the houses.

Approaching the Tartresis and the Bene outside official channels might get us enough influence to persuade the Emperor, which would in turn allow us to prosecute a smaller war against those who would refuse. The Ixira may be interested in safe computing technology.

We really needed that external diplo team yesterday. Our intel report specifically calls out time sensitive diplomatic opportunities. Failing to obtain one next turn will mean major problems.
 
Mentats are a distinctive feature of Licori society as a whole. This is, in fact, the second attempt of the Arcadians at a space age. They were on the cusp of warp travel when a disaster involving sentient AI destroyed large tracts of the world and solidified power into five major polities...

I believe this is our main diplomatic angle of attack from the inside view. The Licori already accept that some technological developments, left unchecked, lead to the potential for widescale destruction, and that society must ruthlessly reject the tools that led to those outcomes. We "merely" must make the case that the unrestricted development of Mentats has, once again, led them to a precipice of such danger; instead of a safe way forward it was merely another dead end. I believe the Licori will accept this, in the end, because they already accepted it once. And hey, worst-case we just need to organize another Jihad. Luckily the Mentat problem is self-limiting; their curtailed lifespan makes it easier to push for less radical solutions.

[edit] Why not take on the equivalent of the FAI challenge and try to come together in a megaproject to develop a Responsible Mentat? A process to create somebody who is to ethical research as Mentats are to pure research.
 
Last edited:
Approaching the Tartresis and the Bene outside official channels might get us enough influence to persuade the Emperor, which would in turn allow us to prosecute a smaller war against those who would refuse. The Ixira may be interested in safe computing technology.

We really needed that external diplo team yesterday. Our intel report specifically calls out time sensitive diplomatic opportunities. Failing to obtain one next turn will mean major problems.

You really do still think we can talk our way out of this, eh?
 
You really do still think we can talk our way out of this, eh?

At the very least we can talk our way into a much more favorable conflict more along the lines of the Orion intervention than a heavily opposed invasion with an exit strategy that's a tautology printed on a "Mission accomplished" banner.
 
Except it really isn't a working demand. They're working on artificially inducing supernova's.

What you're saying is basically :

"What if we gave North Korea permission to develop thermonuclear bombs, but made them promise they wouldn't fire them at us."

Nobody is going to believe they'll keep their promise if push comes to shove. The war supporting factions would never accept it.

We will need to be willing top grant allow them some autonomy over their mentats or otherwise prepare for a lengthy and costly occupation. Because it is pretty clear to me that nobody there will be willing or even able to comply with our demand without constant oversight by us.


And I think a wide "demilitarized" zone is our best bet for a "cheap" solution and I have little doubt that our more aggressive minded members will be open to it once they have to consider the cost of pacifying and policing the Arkadian Empire otherwise

Also, the Arkadian are clearly not in the habit of blowing themselves or others up as evident by the fact that they are still around and thriving. If the Mentats/Akradian were as trigger happy as some here try to portray them as that area as space would be most likely be as populated as the GBZ...
 
I note the Anshidi don't seem to be on the map-we met them in Q3.M3, somewhere near Seyek space.
Unfortunately that leaves about 4 sub-sectors where they could be, and it's pretty important whether they are wedged between the Seyek and the Cardassians, next to the Lecarre, or somewhere in the middle (and potentially blocking our future expansion in that direction).

Yay map update!

Rigel's "Wellbeck" should be "Welleck". Oneiros only named it "Wellbeck" once, then has otherwise consistently named it "Welleck" according to thread search (including the front page).

@OneirosTheWriter, can you clarify where "Bean's Star" and "Lora" are in the GBZ?
Also Tal Hanar/20 Miele... The last update to the Gabriel status post has been nearly a month ago now.
 
You really do still think we can talk our way out of this, eh?

We will need to come to some agreement with the Arkadians, or at least the majority of them, if we want to have any hope of this not turning into a very lengthy and bloody campaign. The Mentats are clearly an integral and widespread part of Akradian society which means we will need to fully occupy their planets if we want to get the situation under control via force which seems like a nearly impossible challenge considering we are talking about multiple highly populated planets with a likely hostile population. The technology for producing Mentats seems to be widespread which means it will nearly impossible to prevent "guerilla"/resistance movements from access to them for a very long amount of time.

I mean really what exactly is your plan? Send in the fleet, blow up their space installations and put a puppet government in place to enforce our rules? History shows that this almost never works and I suspect that the noble houses will be very sore and powerful losers indeed.
 
Back
Top