Ouch! I don't think anyone actually wanted to throw the FDS to the proverbial wolves; they're not going to be happy with Starfleet for awhile.
It may not turn out that badly for them. Sometimes alien peoples are just that, alien. If there was no reasonable way for them to achieve a good outcome here, then there's no real problem. Blaming people for circumstances well beyond their control isn't really the way the Federation does things, after all. That's more of a Cardassian thing.
 
@OneirosTheWriter I think you're shorting us a Tech.

Here's the Q1 Shipyard Ops.

Current Personnel Pool

Standard Starfleet: 20.95 Officer, 27.5 Enlisted, 20 Techs
Explorer Corps: 6.75 Officer, 8.6 Enlisted, 9.55 Techs

-

USS Voshov at 40 Eridani A Fleetyards Berth B
Crewing from Explorer Corps: 6 Officer, 5 Enlisted, 5 Technicians

USS Rru'adorr at Lor'Vela OCF Berth A
Crewing from Standard: 6 Officer, 5 Enlisted, 5 Technicians

-

Result

Standard Starfleet: 14.95 Officer, 22.5 Enlisted, 14 Techs
Explorer Corps: 0.75 Officer, 3.6 Enlisted, 4.55 Techs

Standard Starfleet 20 Techs - 5 Techs (Rru'adorr) should have resulted in 15 Techs, not 14.

Two Excelsiors (NCC-2021, 2022) at Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards are being crewed this quarter
12 Officer, 10 Enlisted, 10 Technician

One Constitution-B (NCC-1752) at Lor'Vela OCF is being crewed this quarter
3 Officer, 4 Enlisted, 4 Technician

Result:
Standard Starfleet: 0 Officer, 8.5 Enlisted, 0 Techs
Explorer Corps: 0.75 Officer, 3.6 Enlisted, 4.55 Techs

So we should be left with 1 Techs, not 0 Techs. 15 - 14 = 1.
 
I'm just saying, there are parallels...
Hey, it's your incentive structure, pal. Look what it made! :p :D

That...doesn't bode well. All the previous deals had an element of enthusiasm. Not so much this time.
That's because we're making this deal with a woman who's spent the last several years watching her political majority get worn down by attrition and who just lost the position of prime minister. She's not necessarily a happy person.

The last Connie-B that we'll ever build.

The second-to-last Connie-B that'll ever be built (I think) - last is the Vulcan NCC-1753 due in 2316.
[Salutes, puts on the song.]

Our of the frying pan, into the other frying pan?
Leslie:

"Have you ever noticed just how frying pan-shaped the Constitutions' saucer is? Lady Lex isn't going to the frying pan, she is the frying pan. Just you wait until the Rigellians show up, one of their ships looks an awful lot like a ballistic kitchen sink to me..."

[wanders off, muttering something about 'better than Trelane, anyway.']
 
It's biggest, more expensive, and equally-crewed to a modern cruiser (or even a Jaldun). For something meant to replace an Oberth due largely to crewing considerations, I'm not sure this is a case of perverse incentives.
1. Can we have the current Starfleet civilian ships totals like you gave for the members under the MWCO report this year?
2. Was the MWCO report current as of 2314.Q2?
3. Do we have any Starfleet civilian yards beyond the 4 berths we created at Amarkia, and if so what are they producing?

So work continues on the civilian ship sheet, To Boldly Go Civilian Ships , members are done just affiliates and Starfleet to go and then going back and adding all the ships under construction.
 
The 1.1mt design is noted as the biggest baddest design we can produce, but I don't personally intend to offer it for consideration and would argue against anyone who does.

It was more a case study into what was the maximum Kepler possible.
 
2. Was the MWCO report current as of 2314.Q2?
They were current for end of 2314.Q1.

3. Do we have any Starfleet civilian yards beyond the 4 berths we created at Amarkia, and if so what are they producing?
No.

1. Can we have the current Starfleet civilian ships totals like you gave for the members under the MWCO report this year?
They haven't changed.
 
If anything good comes out of this Ittik-Ka session, maybe we'll get that policy to diplo neutrals that some odd us wanted.

e: but in all honesty the bigger problem was probably a Starfleet one, of finding them
 
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It's biggest, more expensive, and equally-crewed to a modern cruiser (or even a Jaldun). For something meant to replace an Oberth due largely to crewing considerations, I'm not sure this is a case of perverse incentives.
When did crewing come into this? We built the bare minimum number of Oberths because they are tin cans not because they took six crew.

That being said I must point of the differences in efficiency:
Oberth - 11 stat for 6 crew = 1.83 stat/crew
Renaissance - 26 stat for 11 crew = 2.36 stat/crew
C3 Kepler - 26 stat for 11 crew = 2.36 stat/crew

That C3 Kepler gets 30% more performance per crew member. Although looking at that stats it is basically a Renaissance that trades combat ability (C/H/L) for peacetime ability (S/P).


That all being said I do feel the need to point out that, despite all I've said in defense of the C3 Kepler, I'm a supporter of the C1 designs.
 
You can get a C3 Kepler without going to 1.1mt. No one has bothered to present the design for one, but I've confirmed C3 at just under 1mt a few times.

e: It's also easy by dropping D or P.
 
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It's bigger, more expensive, and equally-crewed to a modern cruiser (or even a Jaldun). For something meant to replace an Oberth due largely to crewing considerations, I'm not sure this is a case of perverse incentives.
I think a lot of the playerbase had a lot of reasons to want to replace the Oberth other than crewing considerations. We're talking about a TOS-era ship with an sr:br ratio of 4:1 and more stats of "1" than not. You'd be hard pressed to find a reason that isn't in play to replace the Oberth.

The 1.1mt design is noted as the biggest baddest design we can produce, but I don't personally intend to offer it for consideration and would argue against anyone who does.

It was more a case study into what was the maximum Kepler possible.
This is a fair point, although the roughly 900-kiloton designs I've seen are still big enough to make someone whose idea of a science vessel is an Oberth go "wow this is bloated..." if they ignore the realities that led youse guys to design it, anyway. :p
 
This is a fair point, although the roughly 900-kiloton designs I've seen are still big enough to make someone whose idea of a science vessel is an Oberth go "wow this is bloated..." if they ignore the realities that led youse guys to design it, anyway. :p
We are the Federation - we take science serious. Look at our goal(s)!
 
I remember our first 'Final' of a C2 S7 H2 L3 P5 D4 at 950kt and O2 E3 T3.
I still like this design. It has high science (of course), but is also good at event response otherwise, except for combat challenges. I would be fine with using it as a garrison frigate for peaceful sectors. And dangerous sectors I want to garrison with an Excelsior, anyway.

The crew cost is also reasonably low. I see it as the efficient design, rather than the bestest design.
 
I still like this design. It has high science (of course), but is also good at event response otherwise, except for combat challenges. I would be fine with using it as a garrison frigate for peaceful sectors. And dangerous sectors I want to garrison with an Excelsior, anyway.

The crew cost is also reasonably low. I see it as the efficient design, rather than the bestest design.

It's still the current front-runner, in my opinion, although depending on the year we choose we may have better parts for a design at that weight.
 
If only we could up the Kepler to C3, then it could do both the jobs of Science Frigate & Garrison Frigate.
Honestly I don't see why it even needs Combat 3 to do the job. Our garrison ships don't fight all that often; the whole point of the border zones is to intercept heavily armed raiding vessels before they get far into our space.

A big part of the appeal of the Keplers is that they give us good event response (especially in science) without pushing our combat cap up too high. They're being designed for the strategic context of the 2320s, when we may be finally closing in on the cap, remember? Giving them more guns doesn't necessarily do us a favor, because it probably means fewer Ambassadors and Renaissances.
 
Are the Rennaisance stats in the ship designs post on the front page accurate?

It looks like it has the exact same Science capability as the Connie-b, but wig one higher presence. So it's only a little better at peaceful exploration and garrisoning.

But for combat, with the new engine, it'll be considerably better with its extra hull and shields.
 
Are the Rennaisance stats in the ship designs post on the front page accurate?

It looks like it has the exact same Science capability as the Connie-b, but wig one higher presence. So it's only a little better at peaceful exploration and garrisoning.

But for combat, with the new engine, it'll be considerably better with its extra hull and shields.
Yes the stats are accurate, it is +1 L, +1 H, +1 P for +1 E compared to the Connie-B which improves its combat potential a lot.
 
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