Why do we need combat for a science ship, also, is it possible to cut down the crew required for the vessel?
You can have a ship that is completely unarmed and still have two combat rating. The C2 designs we have usually have one single 2262-era phaser. You have to deliberately go out of your way to get C1.

Crew is a function of ship size plus equipment type. Science parts are crew heavy. 950kt Keplers that we're looking at are usually 2/3/3. No, dropping crew is typically not possible, even 800kt designs stayed 2/3/3. I managed to force some difficult compromises for 950kt 2/2/3 but do not recommend that design.

Again, the 1100kt monster you see here is not a design that should have leaked. I recommend ignoring it.
 
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You can have a ship that is completely unarmed and still have two combat rating. The C2 designs we have usually have one single 2262-era phaser. You have to deliberately go out of your way to get C1.

Crew is a function of ship size plus equipment type. Science parts are crew heavy. 950kt Keplers that we're looking at are usually 2/3/3. No, dropping crew is typically not possible, even 800kt designs stayed 2/3/3. I managed to force some difficult compromises for 950kt 2/2/3 but do not recommend that design.

Again, the 1100kt monster you see here is not a design that should have leaked. I recommend ignoring it.
Leaked? It sounds as if something has gone wrong, if you feel the need to hide the design specs from the general public. Why worry about our knowledge of what is going on in the design bureau?
 
Leaked? It sounds as if something has gone wrong, if you feel the need to hide the design specs from the general public. Why worry about our knowledge of what is going on in the design bureau?

Because I don't see any plans to recommend such a ship.

We've designed C7 Lorgot-style cruisers and replacement Excelsiors with all-7 statlines. They shouldn't leak either, because it sets unrealistic expectations. Just look at the flood of questions over this design. No one is planning on a 3/4/4 crew Kepler and yet I'm getting told sternly by multiple parties to reduce crew. And this is not the first time either. We have panicked people yelling at us in the SDB every time a weird design is posted here. That confusion is entirely avoidable.

If a design is unrealistic, it should not be posted here. Doubly so if the sheet isn't finalized. That's my opinion and it's one I'm sticking to.
 
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Leaked? It sounds as if something has gone wrong, if you feel the need to hide the design specs from the general public. Why worry about our knowledge of what is going on in the design bureau?
Because there are multiple variants of the sheet, and not all designs are valid or realistic, or represent what the SDB is designing.

For example, a C3 S8 H2 L3 P5 D5 Kepler was possible. Balance changes have made it impossible. And a couple weeks ago, S9 SuperKeplers/MiniGalaxies were possible. All of these are unrealistic now.

Also, seeing a bunch of spam about balancing, etc. is probably not desired.
 
It's bigger, more expensive, and equally-crewed to a modern cruiser (or even a Jaldun). For something meant to replace an Oberth due largely to crewing considerations, I'm not sure this is a case of perverse incentives.
I thought we wanted the Keppler because the designers noticed that we could get a lot more stats.
You can get a C3 Kepler without going to 1.1mt. No one has bothered to present the design for one, but I've confirmed C3 at just under 1mt a few times.

e: It's also easy by dropping D or P.
I was under the impression that Keppler designs were to be restricted to C2 max? (And that it required some effort to reduce C.)
 
I was under the impression that Keppler designs were to be restricted to C2 max? (And that it required some effort to reduce C.)
Yes. The Science Escort role requires C2 or less.

I thought we wanted the Keppler because the designers noticed that we could get a lot more stats.
The Oberth is a miracle of TOS engineering.

The Kepler tries to do the same thing - science - without being a miracle.
 
Our science ships should be forced to win battles by reversing the polarity of the neutrino flows around the enemy plasma coils, thereby short circuiting their shields.
 
I thought we wanted the Keppler because the designers noticed that we could get a lot more stats.

I was under the impression that Keppler designs were to be restricted to C2 max? (And that it required some effort to reduce C.)

Sigh.

So do you see the problem with discussing theoretical designs here? Especially because attached to the very design under discussion was a note that we could reduce the combat score to whatever we wished?

This is why spillover to this thread is not productive. You're rehashing discussion we've already had, without any of the background context. We already went over what it would mean to define a C3 allowance.
 
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I think more or less because all the background and discussion for various builds happen in that thread, rather than cluttering up this one.

Ultimately, a few of the better options will be posted here for voting on.

Design isn't a closed thread, so anyone interested in actually being involved in the nitty gritty and theoretical work should venture over that way.
 
I think more or less because all the background and discussion for various builds happen in that thread, rather than cluttering up this one.

Ultimately, a few of the better options will be posted here for voting on.

Design isn't a closed thread, so anyone interested in actually being involved in the nitty gritty and theoretical work should venture over that way.
Yes, but periodic updates on the state of the design bureau should be submitted to all of us in the overall discussion so that both the designers in the bureau and the brass here are on the same page. This way, there would be more transparency within the design bureau, and avoiding a situation where the desires of Starfleet and the designs provided aren't synchronized. Such a status update doesn't have to be done too often, maybe once per in-game year?
 
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Yes, but periodic updates on the state of the design bureau should be submitted to all of us in the overall discussion so that both the designers in the bureau and the brass here are on the same page. This way, there would be more transparency within the design bureau, and avoiding a situation where the desires of Starfleet and the designs provided aren't synchronized.

Given that all of design bureau are by definition denizens of this thread and that you are free to go there and that it was created specifically to prevent cluttering this thread by design discussions, I disagree.
 
Yes, but periodic updates on the state of the design bureau should be submitted to all of us in the overall discussion so that both the designers in the bureau and the brass here are on the same page. This way, there would be more transparency within the design bureau, and avoiding a situation where the desires of Starfleet and the designs provided aren't synchronized. Such a status update doesn't have to be done too often, maybe once per in-game year?
Well, if you want to, feel free. Add it to your watched threads list.
 
Nonsense. The Lecarre simply haven't put in the time for that kind of thing. His chief of staff is a good Romulan infiltrator.
Dear sir, the Federation frowns on the species-based slander. Just because the grandmother of Mr. ImNotASleeper was a Romulan emigrant does not give cause for undue speciecism.
 
Leaked? It sounds as if something has gone wrong, if you feel the need to hide the design specs from the general public. Why worry about our knowledge of what is going on in the design bureau?
Look, the design thread is open to the public. It's right there.

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/starfleet-ship-design-bureau-to-boldly-go.33039/

Thing is, our design process is very complicated- an entirely separate game in its own right, really. They've been through... I've honestly lost count, either three or four iterations of "how ship design should work" in roughly as many months. Unless you go in there and spend many hours figuring out how it works, you will not understand how it works. I know I don't. There's a significant gap even among the designers in how good a design they can create, because some of them have more experience playing with the spreadsheet magic than others. I suspect that many of them have spent dozens if not hundreds of hours on various designs by now.

As a consequence, when someone shows you the statlines of, say, four possible Keplers, without explaining the context... it causes a lot of confusion. People don't know that 1.1 megaton escorts are or soon will be available. People don't know that there's not much you can do to make crews smaller. People don't know that a Combat 2 ship is practically the minimum that can even be designed on the sheet. I certainly didn't know any of those things until I started looking at the most recent set of designs.

Moreover, the rules of what can and cannot be designed are being constantly rebalanced on the fly.

Put together, all of this means that if hypothetical random design exercises from the SDB thread 'leak' over here, it is very likely to set off conversations that involve a lot of wordage which isn't well founded in the rules of ship design. Because the rules of ship design are, quite frankly, too complicated for most of us to understand. Or at least too complicated to understand without investing a disproportionate amount of time.

Naw if we do that, we might find a Lecarre as his chief of staff.

In fact, we might find one there now.:o
My theory is that our seniormost ship designer (the one who IC comes up with SynchronizedWritersBlock's designs) is a Lecarre. But their Lecarre mimicry skills are so good that they're actually doing a better job as our senior designer than the real person would, resulting in objectively better ship designs. So we should just roll with it.

So, in descending order from most to least obvious alien infiltrators we know and love...

AKuz is a Romulan, anon-user is a Cardie, Iron Wolf is a Klingon, and SWB is a genius Lecarre ship designer impersonating a less inspired Federation ship designer. :p

Did I leave anyone out?
 
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My theory is that our seniormost ship designer (the one who IC comes up with SynchronizedWritersBlock's designs) is a Lecarre. But their Lecarre mimicry skills are so good that they're actually doing a better job as our senior designer than the real person would, resulting in objectively better ship designs. So we should just roll with it.
That would explain the 3-year deep infiltrator - the Lecarre can copy the mind of the target and live it. Might be involuntary - where the agent doesn't know he's an agent until the correct command is given (like Total Recall).

At any moment half the thread may or many not have been replaced by their mirror universe doubles.

Other than that, don't think so.
Schrödinger-thread!
 
That would explain the 3-year deep infiltrator - the Lecarre can copy the mind of the target and live it. Might be involuntary - where the agent doesn't know he's an agent until the correct command is given (like Total Recall).
Oh no no, it's all just method acting. Lecarre!SWB!expy is just such a good method actor he's better than the real thing. We're just lucky that the Lecarre passion for espionage means he's spying for them and building spaceships for us, not the other way around. :D

Also,,,

"Get your ass to Utopia Planitia." :)
 
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