He's talking about strategy after the war starts, when all treaties are off. Like, what are the strategic targets to pursue during the war.
That being the case, "clear the flanks first" does seem like our dominant concern.

The Dawiar will likely neutralize themselves. They'd be fools not to, and the Cardassians have probably offended them by their actions. There might be a few show engagements, to satisfy honor and show that they did not roll over and die, but no more.
It would still be wise for us to use External Diplomacy assets (remember the Biophage mobilization?) to persuade the Dawiar to accept neutrality on favorable terms, maybe even giving them complementary gifts that will make the Dawiar more favorably inclined towards us and the Cardassians less favorably inclined toward the Dawiar postwar. The diplomats might also negotiate with the Dawiar over what form they would like any show engagements to take.

The Sydraxi are more likely to be knocked out of the war with an actual campaign.

A campaign into the Union itself is too dependent on what happens before it with the Sydraxi and Dawiar to be planned for; it will depend on the success of those ventures and the known deployments of the Cardassian fleet.
This much is obvious. The catch is that we are committed to defending Indorian and Apiata space, so we can't just ignore those issues and put them off until later, if the Cardassians decide to attack either of those two member species.

The Lecarre as a species are actually not much of a threat to us in the event of war. The potential danger is Lecarre infiltrators, but those infiltrators will already be in place before the war starts, and a military attack on the Lecarre homeworld is unlikely to accomplish much to protect us from the infiltrators.
 
The Lecarre as a species are actually not much of a threat to us in the event of war. The potential danger is Lecarre infiltrators, but those infiltrators will already be in place before the war starts, and a military attack on the Lecarre homeworld is unlikely to accomplish much to protect us from the infiltrators.

If we had the forces, I'd still want to go raze their orbitals and do a couple passes from orbit on their heavy industry. Denies the Cardassians a base on our flank, and the Lecarre will likely scream for help and possibly divert Pact forces there that will be tied down to defend them.
 
Come now, there is no need for a war. The Dominion only wishes to be friends with all of you.

#NotAVorta

Well, they did give us the Centaur-A.

That one is obvious. You may as well as not bothered.



If we had the forces, I'd still want to go raze their orbitals and do a couple passes from orbit on their heavy industry. Denies the Cardassians a base on our flank, and the Lecarre will likely scream for help and possibly divert Pact forces there that will be tied down to defend them.

Hmm.

I think its high time we got an intel report on the Lecarre shipyards. Do they have enough berths to support a Cardassian attack on our flank?
 
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If we had the forces, I'd still want to go raze their orbitals and do a couple passes from orbit on their heavy industry. Denies the Cardassians a base on our flank, and the Lecarre will likely scream for help and possibly divert Pact forces there that will be tied down to defend them.
Either way, I'd class it as a minor campaign objective.
 
Yes, but periodic updates on the state of the design bureau should be submitted to all of us in the overall discussion so that both the designers in the bureau and the brass here are on the same page. This way, there would be more transparency within the design bureau, and avoiding a situation where the desires of Starfleet and the designs provided aren't synchronized. Such a status update doesn't have to be done too often, maybe once per in-game year?

For the most part, the designers there are the brass here. The designs we work on are synchronized between research planning and design work and all types of votes and even actual studies on event rates and types. There's more coordination happening than a typical promotion or Snakepit vote. It's the kind of work where if even one little part of requirement or research timing or design work or prototype berth timing is off, it ruins the whole thing. That means people like Briefvoice and Nix and Void Stalker and Simon_Jester and myself keep a good enough eye on areas outside our expertise, so that we at least understand the possibilities. When I and others recommended a Science Frigate requirement, that was from an understanding of a wide range of possibilities that even considered if some sort of ship would still be possible even if Oneiros changed the underlying rules.

Point is, though, that random designs out of the SDB thread mean nothing more than someone pushing their pet project. You should treat them with the same skeptcism as someone here suggesting a one-liner that Seruk be the next Commander, Starfleet. Such a statement has no context and questionable justification. To make some similar pointless SDB-related statements, I don't see you complaining about the Excelscort or the suggested swap to Swarm doctrine or the C4 1.6mt garrison cruiser that we should replace the Rennie with by 2320. Those are all discussion or designs that happened in the SDB thread, but there is no context to mentioning them here, and literally none of them ended up with any meaning to decisions that should be made here.

Besides, it's all public discussion anyway.
 
I'd like to find out what the Dawiar response to being almost completely encircled is - their (original?) stated reason for being wary about the Federation was that they wanted to go out and expand on their own terms, which they really can't do if there's nowhere to expand into. It's possible that they may not react nearly as well or passively as we're expecting.

the suggested swap to Swarm doctrine
Y'know, I had a few thoughts about that when the advantage of numbers in a fight in the new system was made clear recently. Is it a subject of serious discussion, or a passing thought in the thread?
 
I'd like to find out what the Dawiar response to being almost completely encircled is - their (original?) stated reason for being wary about the Federation was that they wanted to go out and expand on their own terms, which they really can't do if there's nowhere to expand into. It's possible that they may not react nearly as well or passively as we're expecting.


Y'know, I had a few thoughts about that when the advantage of numbers in a fight in the new system was made clear recently. Is it a subject of serious discussion, or a passing thought in the thread?
Passing thought. We shouldn't get into combat often and swarm is nigh completely useless outside of war. Besides, the going opinion is that researching the other philosophies would result in us going through the process of switching between the protocols, which would exchange a fully developed tree for one that is bare.
 
Y'know, I had a few thoughts about that when the advantage of numbers in a fight in the new system was made clear recently. Is it a subject of serious discussion, or a passing thought in the thread?
People complained about it around when the Excelscort came up. Naturally the Excelscort was a design to tune the sheet that was never going to stick around, so there really was no point to saying how Swarm would dominate LR forever. This was well before the combat engine changes.
 
Given how much this entire thread runs off spreadsheets and how it's in space, I'm pretty sure it's basically EvE in every aspect :V
Man, I played EVE. I actually stopped playing EVE because it was starting to influence my IRL personality and how paranoid and cynical I was. We should be playing the Cardassians for this thread to be EVE.

About a decade ago I got a free Trial/Demo CD for EVE at Comic Con but I never installed the thing. Every time I hear about some new controversy revolving around Eve or it's economy I feel like I dodged a bullet.
 
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So did anyone have any actual comments/critique of the deployment plan? I'm hoping the reason it's been so quiet is that the thread has been chewing over previous iterations for the entire week and made their comments already rather than because no one is interested. I am a bit surprised that there's been no pushback whatsoever to 'spending' two Centaur-As on the KBZ and RBZ.

I consider deployment to be one of the least technical aspects of the game, if a bit time-consuming to think over in its totality.
 
So did anyone have any actual comments/critique of the deployment plan? I'm hoping the reason it's been so quiet is that the thread has been chewing over previous iterations for the entire week and made their comments already rather than because no one is interested. I am a bit surprised that there's been no pushback whatsoever to 'spending' two Centaur-As on the KBZ and RBZ.

I consider deployment to be one of the least technical aspects of the game, if a bit time-consuming to think over in its totality.
When we were waiting for you I looked over the previous draft to see if there was anything I wanted to change so that I could make my own variation to get voting started. I didn't find anything. I'd want more ships for event responses in most sectors, but there is no where they could reasonably be taken from, and the sector fleets all have at least two different ship classes.
 
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So did anyone have any actual comments/critique of the deployment plan? I'm hoping the reason it's been so quiet is that the thread has been chewing over previous iterations for the entire week and made their comments already rather than because no one is interested. I am a bit surprised that there's been no pushback whatsoever to 'spending' two Centaur-As on the KBZ and RBZ.

I consider deployment to be one of the least technical aspects of the game, if a bit time-consuming to think over in its totality.
Personally, I would pull a Centaur from the RBZ and the KBZ and transfer (via shuffling) to the GBZ, or some other sector that needs ships.
 
Personally, I would pull a Centaur from the RBZ and the KBZ and transfer (via shuffling) to the GBZ, or some other sector that needs ships.
You know that we were taking penalties for missing events last year, right? The GBZ already has all the ships it can reasonably get, all of the Miranda-As and almost all of the Constitution-Bs, the Centaurs are more useful elsewhere.
 
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The terrifying thing about the Kepler (and any minmaxed garrison ship) is that they are going to go veteran very easily, especially once we've done Mutual Support from Forward Defense. A S7/P5/D4 is as good or better than an Excelsior at passing peacetime rolls, and while its Defense isn't as good, it's still good enough to likely pass most tests (+11 to Science, +9 to Presence). It might miss Hard response tests but it'll snap up everything else. Depending on how Assists count for the purposes of gaining Veterancy, it wouldn't surprise me if a Kepler could go Blooded in 3 years or less. Vet within a decade. By the time that we actually have the tech to want to replace them (2340s maybe) we'll likely have an option for refit, plus done the below tech. Helloooo Galaxy equivalent sciships!

2330s Specialist Exploratory Sensors
For putting special equipment in the hands of special people.

0 / 60 Stellar Catographic Sensors I (+1 to Stellar Anomaly Research rolls)
0 / 60 Specialist Sensors I (+1 to Science for Long-Range Explorer Vessels after 6mnth refit)
 
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You know that we were taking penalties for missing events last year, right? The GBZ already has all the ships it can reasonably get, all of the Miranda-As and almost all of the Constitution-Bs, the Centaurs are more useful elsewhere.
Hence the bit about or other sectors that need ships.
 
I am a bit surprised that there's been no pushback whatsoever to 'spending' two Centaur-As on the KBZ and RBZ.

The Rommie-Klingon war isn't on the horizon anymore, it's really closer to a football field's length and accelerating quickly. I'm quite fine with putting a few more eyes on those borders.
 
So did anyone have any actual comments/critique of the deployment plan? I'm hoping the reason it's been so quiet is that the thread has been chewing over previous iterations for the entire week and made their comments already rather than because no one is interested. I am a bit surprised that there's been no pushback whatsoever to 'spending' two Centaur-As on the KBZ and RBZ.

I consider deployment to be one of the least technical aspects of the game, if a bit time-consuming to think over in its totality.
I liked that aspect, actually, making sure we have enough ships in each sector to hopefully not miss events due to not having a ship available.
 
Hence the bit about or other sectors that need ships.
One of the missed events was in the KBZ, so the KBZ itself is one of the sectors that needed more ships, which has been addressed in the plan. It's also the only sector without starbase and seems to generate extra events due to the Caldonians being in that sector, so I strongly disagree with withdrawing any ships from there. It would be a little bit more reasonable in the case of the RBZ, but border zones have a higher event rate than home sectors and there isn't any one sector that has a clearly higher need.
 
It's not nice to say, but to a certain extent the Connie-Bs and Miranda-As were made to be blown up in war. The Connie-Bs are an old design that can't be refitted and are competitive in battle right now, but may not be within another decade. The Miranda-As, well, they're cheap to build and cheap to crew and are there to enhance combat power. They were built for war.

I don't want any of our ships to be destroyed, but if we need ships to be risked in battle, those are the ones we want to lose first.
 
I don't mind the current deployment plan. The only thing is Rigel may need a third ship as an Oberth hardly counts, and I'd like to have a combat force in the SBZ, but the forces are not available for either.
 
So did anyone have any actual comments/critique of the deployment plan? I'm hoping the reason it's been so quiet is that the thread has been chewing over previous iterations for the entire week and made their comments already rather than because no one is interested. I am a bit surprised that there's been no pushback whatsoever to 'spending' two Centaur-As on the KBZ and RBZ.

I consider deployment to be one of the least technical aspects of the game, if a bit time-consuming to think over in its totality.
I know I was a little concerned by leaving only an Excelsior and Oberth in the BZs, and said as soon as we can we should add another escort to the mix. If it was a Miranda or a Centaur wasn't really a concern.
 
But Linderley's tailor is surely an upstanding individual with no cause for suspicion whatsoever :V
Look, the design thread is open to the public. It's right there.

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/starfleet-ship-design-bureau-to-boldly-go.33039/

Thing is, our design process is very complicated- an entirely separate game in its own right, really. They've been through... I've honestly lost count, either three or four iterations of "how ship design should work" in roughly as many months. Unless you go in there and spend many hours figuring out how it works, you will not understand how it works. I know I don't. There's a significant gap even among the designers in how good a design they can create, because some of them have more experience playing with the spreadsheet magic than others. I suspect that many of them have spent dozens if not hundreds of hours on various designs by now.

As a consequence, when someone shows you the statlines of, say, four possible Keplers, without explaining the context... it causes a lot of confusion. People don't know that 1.1 megaton escorts are or soon will be available. People don't know that there's not much you can do to make crews smaller. People don't know that a Combat 2 ship is practically the minimum that can even be designed on the sheet. I certainly didn't know any of those things until I started looking at the most recent set of designs.

Moreover, the rules of what can and cannot be designed are being constantly rebalanced on the fly.

Put together, all of this means that if hypothetical random design exercises from the SDB thread 'leak' over here, it is very likely to set off conversations that involve a lot of wordage which isn't well founded in the rules of ship design. Because the rules of ship design are, quite frankly, too complicated for most of us to understand. Or at least too complicated to understand without investing a disproportionate amount of time.

My theory is that our seniormost ship designer (the one who IC comes up with SynchronizedWritersBlock's designs) is a Lecarre. But their Lecarre mimicry skills are so good that they're actually doing a better job as our senior designer than the real person would, resulting in objectively better ship designs. So we should just roll with it.

So, in descending order from most to least obvious alien infiltrators we know and love...

AKuz is a Romulan, anon-user is a Cardie, Iron Wolf is a Klingon, and SWB is a genius Lecarre ship designer impersonating a less inspired Federation ship designer.

Did I leave anyone out?

i am but a simple seamstress
Man, I played EVE. I actually stopped playing EVE because it was starting to influence my IRL personality and how paranoid and cynical I was. We should be playing the Cardassians for this thread to be EVE.

EVE is fun to watch but not to play.

Edit: FUCK phones. It just ate most of my post without telling me
 
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You know once we do border focus and mutual support deployment plans will get a lot easier. Right now my thoughts are add one of the Excelsiors next year to the Rigel sector unless we need it in the GBZ. In general try to get each sector up to a few ships, with priority on those we miss events in. I think we need to keep an eye on events through this year and see which sectors are having missed events or could benefit from a better response ship.
 
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