What do you see that we need that we can't get for PP?

I mean the one thing I see is Aux shipyards. Yes, I know we've got the one the deal forced on us coming up, but we owe the pacificsts 8? Cruiser-scale hospital ships and we need freighters ASAP, not in 2322ish.

I believe the hospital ship count got bumped up to 10 in some other political deal.
I suspect we need new engineering ships, colony ships, whatever other logistic vessels that do things, as well as a fleet of cargo haulers.
The new Aux Berth comes online soon I believe. As soon as the hospital ship design is done, it will be prototyping there, the other berths will probably be filled with cargo haulers of some kind at first.

I'm sure the logistics command has a 10 year build plan for that ship yard already laid out.
 
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[X][ACADEMY] Custom - shift 1 Tech to Officers
[X][EXPLORER] Custom - shift .25 from Tech to Officer
[X][WARP] Keep to the old system
[X][SHIP] Keep to the existing Escort/Cruiser/Explorer system

ETA: Sorry to hear that Eddie won't get to sign his name on Ambasador's warp core, but it's on Renaissance's at least. And the Connie-Bs.
 
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On votes... Hm. I don't yet know exactly what I want to do on the other academy votes, but I do know we have a hella officer crunch, so I trust those who say "less blueshirts more goldshirts."

Aaaand... okay, the TNG-era warp system is disastrously bad, not least because there is NO PUBLISHED FORMULA for that weird hand-drawn Okudacurve from Warp 9 to Warp 10. It solves and simplifies literally nothing. It exists purely so that people can handwave speeds in TNG while having literally all ships have a top speed of "nine point something."

That New York conference can go play hopscotch in a minefield. I am voting against it. With fire.

Also, the redesignation system is tragic. I LOVE the idea of our capital ships being called 'explorers,' it is soooo Federation-ey to do that. It's us. And it's likely that our only heavy designs of the next decade or two are going to continue to be the Excelsior and Ambassador, both of which were originally intended as 'explorers' in the literal sense.

My desire for our light ships to be called frigates is weaker than my desire for the Enterprise to be called an explorer. So since there's no option to redesignate escorts without redesignating explorers...

[sighs]

[X][ACADEMY] Custom - shift 1 Tech to Officers
[X][EXPLORER] Custom - shift .25 from Tech to Officer
[X][WARP] Keep to the old system.
[X][SHIP] Keep to the existing Escort/Cruiser/Explorer system
 
What do you see that we need that we can't get for PP?

I mean the one thing I see is Aux shipyards. Yes, I know we've got the one the deal forced on us coming up, but we owe the pacificsts 8? Cruiser-scale hospital ships and we need freighters ASAP, not in 2322ish.

The main thing that comes to mind is a program to bring the Yrillians on side. One that appeals to their work-gangs rather than directly to the government. We've had discussions on this already, with some people favoring offering shipping contacts, some favoring hiring shipyards to build us cargo ships, some favoring prospecting or survey or space construction contacts, and some favoring all of the above.

Before the last few quarters I would have suggested a push for peace between the Licori and the Ked Paddah but the FDS seems to be working on it.

Another thought, depending on if @OneirosTheWriter thinks it's useful to allow, is to ask for a different type of diplomatic push aimed at neutrals or to be used as a fact finding mission.

We can always build berths for pp and order auxiliaries in those berths. We don't need a specific auxiliary shipyard. The 20pp Betazoid shipyard would be fine.
 
[X][ACADEMY] Custom, shift 1 Tech to Officers
[X][EXPLORER] Custom - shift .25 from Tech to Officer
[X][WARP] Keep to the old system
[x][SHIP] Adopt the new Frigate/Cruiser/Capital system
 
[X][ACADEMY] Custom - Shift 1 Tech to Officers
[X][EXPLORER] Custom, shift .25 from Tech to Officer
[X][WARP] Keep the old system
[X][SHIP] Adopt the new Frigate/Cruiser/Capital system
 
My desire for our light ships to be called frigates is weaker than my desire for the Enterprise to be called an explorer. So since there's no option to redesignate escorts without redesignating explorers...

[sighs]

I believe the point of the classification change is to turn things like explorer/science/garrison explicitly into role names, thus the Enterprise would both be a capital ship and an explorer and it's status as an explorer will more than likely take precedence in descriptive terms over its weight category.
 
[X][ACADEMY] Custom - shift 1 Tech to Officers
[X][EXPLORER] Custom - shift .25 from Tech to Officer
[X][WARP] Keep to the old system.
[X][SHIP] Keep to the existing Escort/Cruiser/Explorer system
 
Does it mean we have to beeline phasers research now?

Well, the Apiata aren't going to be sitting idle.

Busy bees, etc.

[X][ACADEMY] Custom - shift 1 Tech to Officers
[X][EXPLORER] Custom - shift .25 from Tech to Officer
[X][WARP] Keep to the old system.
[X][SHIP] Keep to the existing Escort/Cruiser/Explorer system

In a few years, once the Kepler rolls out, I'd like to use this system:
Corvette: X-500mt
Frigate: 500-1000mt
Cruiser: 1000-2000mt
Explorer: 2000+mt
Or
Corvette: X-1000mt
Frigate: 1000-2000mt
Cruiser: 2000+mt
 
Also, the redesignation system is tragic. I LOVE the idea of our capital ships being called 'explorers,' it is soooo Federation-ey to do that. It's us. And it's likely that our only heavy designs of the next decade or two are going to continue to be the Excelsior and Ambassador, both of which were originally intended as 'explorers' in the literal sense.

My desire for our light ships to be called frigates is weaker than my desire for the Enterprise to be called an explorer. So since there's no option to redesignate escorts without redesignating explorers...

So... you like the system but aren't voting for it? What am I missing here? :confused:

As pointed out, the Excelsior and Ambassador will be called Explorers for the foreseeable future, and it's unlikely that we will ever build a pure combat Capital ship, so our largest ships will always be called explorers until we down grade them to say heavy cruisers or something.
 
Huh, now that is interesting. I wonder; did Saavik chose to be pulled from the Explorer Corps with the conclusion of her 5YM or was this mandated from on high for some reason?

Someone made the good point that she has spent so much of her career in the EC that she really needs experience elsewhere to round herself out.

Commissioned as Ensign
Jacqueline Appel - Assigned to Junior Officer, USS Odyssey
T'Wilit - Assigned to Junior Officer, USS Defiant
Mitchie Peh - Assigned to Junior Officer, USS Lexington
Dash sh'Rinboq - Assigned to Junior Officer, USS Renaissance
Shayla Fluttrax - Assigned to Junior Officer, USS T'Mir
Rartay Aronn - Assigned to Junior Officer, USS Defiant

Well very nice. Our graduated cadets are scattered across the Federation on some of our best ships... but Appel gets to go into the Explorer Corps!

Key Reassignments
Commodore Charlotte O'Dea - Assigned to Chief of Staff, Starfleet Intelligence from Director, Analysis Desk, Starfleet Intelligence
Commodore Eddie Leslie - Assigned to Director, Ana Font Shipyards

Leslie gets to build Excelsiors and Renaissances!

Lieutenant-Commander Robert Yang - Assigned to CMO, USS Republic

He will solve the mystery of the battled injured crew!

Notice of Retirement
Rear Admiral Park Seong-ho - Intends to retire apprx 2314.Q2 - Will put hand up for a Vice Admiral role if one becomes available
Rear Admiral Seruk - Intends to retire apprx 2314.Q3

That's right, Seruk. Go before I kick you.

Personally, I think that raising the Gretarians to 100+ relations will give us the opportunity to start down the road of prying them away from the Sydraxians. It may also let us do things like the Cardassians did with the Dawiar and arm them sufficiently to defend themselves. Hell, if we're going to be really cold, forcing the Sydraxians to pull a Bajor and invade them will tie up resources and time that they can't spend in the GBZ attacking us.

Maybe, but don't be too optimistic.

Given that we have plenty of pp to go around, do you think having more resources would help with getting more refits done?

The constraint on refits is not resources (usually), but how many ships we are willing to take out of service at once.

I
would agree, but I would also note that I do not want to release the EC for combat ops for extended periods. I would like to gather them up in a murderball with every Member World ship and Starfleet ship we can spare and go kick the Cardassians out of the GBZ while killing every starship we can over the course of a quarter. Given how the combat Calculator works, 5 EC Excelsiors with heavily boosted stats will allow us to complete such an operation with relatively low casualties. And if we can force them to battle, we can probably kill quite a few Jalduns and maybe a Lorgot before we force them out of the GBZ, then go deal with those who have been left behind.

Key words, "if we can force them to battle". More likely they see the force advancing on them and retreat, and then we can't leave the EC in the sector to continue to threaten them. This is a battle of retreats and advances in turn. Force the enemy into a decisive battle when they see they are outmatched is actually very difficult. Particularly since our ROE means we can't pursue them out of the GBZ.

Yeah, reasonable. If we can afford to boost twice we can get each tech in 2 research turns. IMO we need Mutual Support quickly or the penalties from not responding to events because of the GBZ are going to kill us.

Eh, whatever. I mean, missing a few events isn't actually that awful. I feel like we're overreacting.
 
[X][ACADEMY] Custom - shift 1 Tech to Officers
[X][EXPLORER] Custom - shift .25 from Tech to Officer
[X][WARP] Keep to the old system.
[X][SHIP] Keep to the existing Escort/Cruiser/Explorer system
 
What can I say, badassery can be contagious?
That's Nash's plot power. Just like Straak's ability to use his Geology skill instead of other things, and T'Lorel's ability to apply Ortillery, Nash gives other people Named Character Powers.
On votes... Hm. I don't yet know exactly what I want to do on the other academy votes, but I do know we have a hella officer crunch, so I trust those who say "less blueshirts more goldshirts."

Aaaand... okay, the TNG-era warp system is disastrously bad, not least because there is NO PUBLISHED FORMULA for that weird hand-drawn Okudacurve from Warp 9 to Warp 10. It solves and simplifies literally nothing. It exists purely so that people can handwave speeds in TNG while having literally all ships have a top speed of "nine point something."

That New York conference can go play hopscotch in a minefield. I am voting against it. With fire.

Also, the redesignation system is tragic. I LOVE the idea of our capital ships being called 'explorers,' it is soooo Federation-ey to do that. It's us. And it's likely that our only heavy designs of the next decade or two are going to continue to be the Excelsior and Ambassador, both of which were originally intended as 'explorers' in the literal sense.

My desire for our light ships to be called frigates is weaker than my desire for the Enterprise to be called an explorer. So since there's no option to redesignate escorts without redesignating explorers...

[sighs]

[X][ACADEMY] Custom - shift 1 Tech to Officers
[X][EXPLORER] Custom - shift .25 from Tech to Officer
[X][WARP] Keep to the old system.
[X][SHIP] Keep to the existing Escort/Cruiser/Explorer system
Under the new system Excelsior/Ambys would still be Explorers, just Capital Explorers.
I believe the hospital ship count got bumped up to 10 in some other political deal.
I suspect we need new engineering ships, colony ships, whatever other logistic vessels that do things, as well as a fleet of cargo haulers.
The new Aux Berth comes online soon I believe. As soon as the hospital ship design is done, it will be prototyping there, the other berths will probably be filled with cargo haulers of some kind at first.

I'm sure the logistics command has a 10 year build plan for that ship yard already laid out.
It comes on line soon, but it's going to be tied up on hospital ships for quite a while.
 
OKAY, SO, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE NEW CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM

It's effectively two-part, separating weight class from function. So you get "Capital, Explorer"; "Frigate, Escort"; "Frigate, Science"; "Cruiser, Garrison" and so on.

Thus a Constellation would be "Cruiser, Garrison, Old" to explain why it's crap.

An Ambassador would be "Capital, Explorer, Heavy" to distinguish it from the Excelsior.

Your Excelsior is not going to stop being an explorer.
 
[X][ACADEMY] Custom, shift 1 Tech to Officers

[X][EXPLORER] Custom - shift .25 from Tech to Officer

[X][WARP] Keep to the old system

[X][SHIP] Keep to the existing Escort/Cruiser/Explorer system
 
OKAY, SO, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE NEW CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM

It's effectively two-part, separating weight class from function. So you get "Capital, Explorer"; "Frigate, Escort"; "Frigate, Science"; "Cruiser, Garrison" and so on.

Thus a Constellation would be "Cruiser, Garrison, Old" to explain why it's crap.

An Ambassador would be "Capital, Explorer, Heavy" to distinguish it from the Excelsior.

Your Excelsior is not going to stop being an explorer.
My objection is to the usage of Capital.

Besides, Starfleet should never have a heavy cruiser that isn't an Explorer.

Edit: My proposed system:

Corvette: X-500mt
Frigate: 500-1000mt
Cruiser: 1000-2000mt
Explorer: 2000+mt
Or
Corvette: X-1000mt
Frigate: 1000-2000mt
Cruiser: 2000+mt
 
My objection is to the usage of Capital.

Besides, Starfleet should never have a heavy cruiser that isn't an Explorer.
Oh? There's been discussion of capital-scale support ships at points - there was an Excelsior-derived hospital ship proposal as one option for that deal.

And the canonical Soverign is basically a battleship.
 
Key words, "if we can force them to battle". More likely they see the force advancing on them and retreat, and then we can't leave the EC in the sector to continue to threaten them. This is a battle of retreats and advances in turn. Force the enemy into a decisive battle when they see they are outmatched is actually very difficult. Particularly since our ROE means we can't pursue them out of the GBZ.

On the other hand, if they give up their construction and let us trash it, we win regardless, as the Not-Second-Battle-of-Deva proved. If we can scare them off we still make tangible gains.

Besides, Starfleet should never have a heavy cruiser that isn't an Explorer.

At some point we're going to end up with Excelsiors becoming sector flagships (as opposed to frontline exploration ships) and then we'll have a category for them too. "Capital, Sector Command" or "Capital, Garrison" is a real possibility for future Excelsior refits.
 
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Oh? There's been discussion of capital-scale support ships at points - there was an Excelsior-derived hospital ship proposal as one option for that deal.

And the canonical Soverign is basically a battleship.
If the relations to the Klingons cool down, the Cardassian's get uppity again, the Bajor-wormhole is discovered and the rimward empires make problems again - perhaps than someone comes with a 5mt plan for a ship that is not an Explorer.
 
The TNG system was needlessly complicated. At some point we need to know what the "max" is, but it isn't terribly necessary now.
There is no max; ships get faster without limit right up into and through the TNG/VOY era.

Pretty sure the old girl would still be an Explorer in function, just not as size-classification.
She's an explorer to me, that's all I know, and that's all I need to know.

[folds arms]

Also...

Enterprise:

"Old girl? I'm not even twenty! ...In this life."

I believe the point of the classification change is to turn things like explorer/science/garrison explicitly into role names, thus the Enterprise would both be a capital ship and an explorer and it's status as an explorer will more than likely take precedence in descriptive terms over its weight category.
The Federation is unlikely to ever build a "among the biggest in the galaxy" capital ship that isn't an explorer. I approve of the changeover to 'frigate' for light ships for exactly the reason you describe, but I oppose creating a situation where we have to call the Excelsiors "explorer capital ships" given that we are unlikely to ever build a true battleship, nor do we want to.

So... you like the system but aren't voting for it? What am I missing here? :confused:

As pointed out, the Excelsior and Ambassador will be called Explorers for the foreseeable future, and it's unlikely that we will ever build a pure combat Capital ship, so our largest ships will always be called explorers until we down grade them to say heavy cruisers or something.
As noted, having the Federation call its capital ships "explorers" for legacy cultural reasons (namely that its largest ships have been exploration vessels since time immemorial, NOT battleships) is something I value.

I like the part of the system where 'escorts' are redesignated 'frigates.' I do not like the part where 'explorers' are redesignated 'capital ships' or worse yet 'exploration capital ships' or whatever grammatical construction is comparable to 'science frigate' or 'garrison frigate.'

Leslie gets to build Excelsiors and Renaissances!
Leslie: "Eh, I'm a generalist kind of man. They never leave me in any one specialist job for long. You're talking to one of the few men to wear red, blue, and gold shirts in the same tour of duty."

That's right, Seruk. Go before I kick you.
You were the one who came up with 'Old Father Time' you heartless!

[collapses, laughing at himself. With occasional sads]

Under the new system Excelsior/Ambys would still be Explorers, just Capital Explorers.
The thing is, that's redundant. The Federation is unlikely to ever build a 'biggest and best' ship worthy of the name 'capital ship' that isn't an explorer. Conversely, it is unlikely to ever build an explorer that isn't one of its biggest and best, at least not until technology advances so ludicrously far that we can build something like the Intrepids that has enough longevity to function on detached duty away from a starbase for several years at a stretch.

Our big ships are explorers. That's the point. We're not going to build them any other way.
 
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