Swapping the term escort for frigate is doable...

Do people think it is really worth doing?

An IC vote would be the best way to handle it, this the kind of thing that large Naval organisations do all the time. For extra IC flavour It could be combined with the move to properly classifying by role as well, as part of a wholesale insitutional redefinition.

I would also be in favour of reclassifying existing ships as well, keeping the old terms around for older ships, when the new terms are specfically there to clarify what each ship is meant to be doing, is kind of defeating the point, and needlessly complicating things.

Something like this;
Weight classes:
Frigate
Cruiser
Capital Ship/ Heavy Cruiser

Roles:
Escort (what we currently call combat)
Science
Garrison
General Purpose
Explorer

This would make the Miranda an Escort Frigate. The Rennaissance is a General Purpose Cruiser, and the Excelsior is an Explorer Capital Ship.

It will make later ships easier to define too, the Akira would be an Escort Cruiser, whilst the Intrepid would be a Science Cruiser.

We could also create a sub-frigate weight class to put the Oberth into, Corvette perhaps, in which we could also put any further ships that weigh in under 200kt.

This would also allow us to dynamically add new roles when needed, which I think was the route Oneiros was going down anyway.
 
*whistles* the Seyek are at 287 now... Pretty likely to hit greater affiliate status this coming year. Iirc they were on the fence about committing to a Cardassian-Federation war, so this is excellent.

Also 20pp, whee! And a really awesome SR mining colony!
 
Well, if I'm not mistaken this may be Saavik's last event check of her five year mission, and she really brought home the bacon with it.

o7

That would be great, but... again, can't do it. Right now all we have on the RBZ is the Excelsior and an Oberth. I don't know where we'd get the 6D to fill that hole if we tried to send the Excelsior in for a refit.
Maybe when Endurance comes out of repairs, if Kumari and Avandar are still in shape, we can rotate Endurance to cover the RBZ and Excelsior into drydock?

You guys can start fights about the most...inane things, can't you? ... and 'we need a way to make diplomatic contact that won't actually improve our relations with icky imperialists-' isn't that called 'intel briefs?'
Vehrec, I respect you enough to know that you know the difference between "try and keep a bunch of neutrals neutral" and "get a spy report on how strong they are." They're not the same thing.

Look, the Cardassians picked up the Dawiar more or less entirely because we ignored them for years. We basically forgot they existed until they up and attacked us and got into a war with one of our affiliates, by which time they were firmly in the Cardassian sphere in a way we haven't been able to crack. Now they've maneuvered us into a position where we can't even engage in diplomatic conduct with a species we first met in 2302, before we even encountered the Cardassians!

This is exactly the kind of thing we do not want to see repeated over and over on our coreward and rimward flanks. Which means we really do need to at least maintain active diplomatic relations with foreign powers we're not planning to recruit. Not just pretend they don't exist, and not just covertly spy on them while otherwise making no approaches and hoping our enemies don't beat us to the punch.

Hopefully we'll see more of that kind of activity out of the FDS, because I get that it's not our job, but it's definitely a job someone ought to be doing, and one that has gone largely undone from game start up through 2312 or so.

So who's with me to expand the Academy every year for four straight years? If you're not, then you better not vote for any berths, because we can't use them.
Given that now we're not totally crippled by cost inflicted by the Syndicate (we think-hope), I'm inclined to favor this.

I won't promise anything because I'll likely not remember that far ahead.

Hey here's an idea; For each Renaissance cruiser to come out of dry dock, we free up crew by handing one of our Constellations to one of our Members or Affiliates.

Good idea? Bad idea?
It's been discussed. The problem is that every time we retire a Constellation we open up a hole in our deployment plans. Look up 'sector defense requirements' to get the overview. What it comes down to is that every time we retire a Constellation in order to crew a Renaissance, there is a high probability that the Rennie will just end up stuck sailing around whatever backwater sector the Constellation used to be covering. This is a Bad Thing from the point of view of trying to get our highly modern and hella tanky cruisers out there on the front lines where we need them.

It's not that we don't want to replace Constellations with Renaissances eventually. It's that we actually have almost exactly the minimum number of ships we need in order to meet all our garrison requirements AND maintain a strong fleet in the Gabriel Expanse. Retiring any ship in a situation like this creates a lot of problems.

If the unwanted Constellations go to the Apiata, Indorians, or Amarki they'll see action in the Gabriel Free For All anyway.
We'd rather they didn't. A Constellation is weaker than just about any ship the Cardassians or Sydraxians have, including their light escort ships.

The thing that's keeping the Constellations in service is quite simply that 'any ship is better than no ship.' A Constellation can still respond to events, save lives on patrol in interior sectors, do scientific missions, and so on. It may not do as good a job of that as a modern cruiser or even a Centaur-A, but it'll do a lot better job than "no ship" would do.

Most of the member worlds don't have much reason to pick up a ship whose main qualification is "what the heck, it's better than nothing." Certainly the Indorions, Amarki, and Apiata aren't going to want crew-hungry ships that are very likely to die if sent into heavy combat against their main opponents. They don't have the warm bodies to spare for those kinds of games.

Well okay, maybe the Apiata do.
 
You know, I think we could leave the 6 Renaissences we get on home duty, and ship off our Mirandas to contest the GBZ.

Not like we need them for peacetime, after all?
 
If we need a name for a sub-frigate weight class, I propose skiff or corvette.

25 sr colony near Risan and Dawiar space, eh? Man, if we could just offer to split that colony with the Dawiar they'd probably drop the Spoonheads just like that. We just need a way to engage in covert diplomacy...
 
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You know, I think we could leave the 6 Renaissences we get on home duty, and ship off our Mirandas to contest the GBZ.

Not like we need them for peacetime, after all?

They were being used as garrison ships on our more contested borders before this current issue. After this is settled, they will likely return to the border zones.
 
[Finally gets around to reading @Const 's story about T'Anar]

Pretty good. A few style-bits I might want to yammer about in a different mood, but T'Anar as described in Nash's log was handled quite well here.

[reads ending]

Enterprise: "D'aww, thanks!"

Leslie: "Tell me, do her eyes ever turn silver? Some of her sound awfully like a couple of old shipmates of mine. Good thing that lock worked."

Rennies are very effective combat ships though, it's a huge waste to not use any of them in battle.
Renaissances aren't really a LOT more effective in combat than their weight in Miranda-As, and the Mirandas put much smaller numbers of crew at risk.

If we had the requisite numbers of Miranda-As in any one place it would make sense to swap out pairs of them for Rennies... but we kind of don't. In most of the places we operate them, we're using them to provide one or two points of Defense to meet a sector garrison requirement that would be understrength without them.

If we need a name for a sub-frigate weight class, I propose skiff or corvette.

25 sr colony near Risan and Dawiar space, eh? Man, if we could just offer to split that colony with the Dawiar they'd probably drop the Spoonheads just like that. We just need a way to engage in covert diplomacy...
Thaat... is a very good idea. :D
 
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If we need a name for a sub-frigate weight class, I propose skiff or corvette.

25 sr colony near Risan and Dawiar space, eh? Man, if we could just offer to split that colony with the Dawiar they'd probably drop the Spoonheads just like that. We just need a way to engage in covert diplomacy...
Sell them 12.5 sr/cycle for ... fashion advice?
 
We have like 5 Mirandas in our home sectors, though.

If we do get them upgraded to Miranda-As, 2 of them would be a worthwhile trade for a single Renaissance, in terms of combat; The Renaissance would score better on it's event responces.

;

Proposed Deployment Plan on 2314.Q1

New ships

Constitution-B
Renaissance

Sol
+ Renaissance [Renaissance]
- Miranda [Dryad]
- Constellation [Selaya]

Vulcan
+ Constellation [Selaya]
- Miranda [Intrepid]
- Miranda [Svai]
+ Oberth [Torbriel]

Apinae
- Oberth [Torbriel]

GBZ
+ Constitution-B
+ Miranda [Dryad]
+ Miranda [Intrepid]
+ Miranda [Svai]

(I'd also move the Miranda from Tellar to GBZ and replace it with, like a Centuar or something.)
 
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You know, Shield Regeneration actually benefits Swarm Doctrine quite a lot more than Lone Ranger.

Unless Shield has some bearing on shields regenerated per tick. Doesn't seem so.
 
You know, Shield Regeneration actually benefits Swarm Doctrine quite a lot more than Lone Ranger.
It does seem to benefit Swarm Doctrine in the long run. While very ship you add to a battle increases the time between regenerations by 5 turns as per:
I'll give you guys this one for free.

Code:
public static void DetermineRegenTurns ()
{
    SrcBattle.NextShieldRegenTurn = SrcBattle.TurnCounter + ((SrcBattle.SideOne.CurrentShips + SrcBattle.SideTwo.CurrentShips) * 5);
}
you also get more Shield per regeneration.

Let's take the battle of Deva for comparison. There were 6 Federation ships up against 6 Sydraxian ships for a total of 12 ships. That means every 60 turns the Federation regenerated six lots of 1L for a total of 6L. If we swapped out each Excelsior for a pair of Miranda-As the battle would have been 8 Federation vs. 6 Sydraxian. With 14 ships we'd be waiting 70 turns between recharges and gain a total of 8L.

In effect by swapping to a more Swarm like fleet, heavy on Escorts with a couple Cruisers as heavyweights, we'd go from gaining an average of 1L per 10 turns to 1L every 8.75 turns. That doesn't seem like much of a difference but given the battle lasted 398 turns that results in +39L for Lone Ranger vs. +45L for Swarm.
 
It does seem to benefit Swarm Doctrine in the long run. While very ship you add to a battle increases the time between regenerations by 5 turns as per:
you also get more Shield per regeneration.

Let's take the battle of Deva for comparison. There were 6 Federation ships up against 6 Sydraxian ships for a total of 12 ships. That means every 60 turns the Federation regenerated six lots of 1L for a total of 6L. If we swapped out each Excelsior for a pair of Miranda-As the battle would have been 8 Federation vs. 6 Sydraxian. With 14 ships we'd be waiting 70 turns between recharges and gain a total of 8L.

In effect by swapping to a more Swarm like fleet, heavy on Escorts with a couple Cruisers as heavyweights, we'd go from gaining an average of 1L per 10 turns to 1L every 8.75 turns. That doesn't seem like much of a difference but given the battle lasted 398 turns that results in +39L for Lone Ranger vs. +45L for Swarm.
... That comparison requires that you don't lose ships. I think?
 
Are the Swarm ships able to distribute the damage among each other?
 
No, although by default having more ships means that the damage gets spread wider. Because the enemy can't focus the entire blowtorch-like firepower of their whole fleet on one of your ships at a time.
 
... That comparison requires that you don't lose ships. I think?
It does indeed. It also assumes every ship has lost at least 1L of Shield between each regeneration. That I think is the real flaw in the analysis, especially since we just upgraded how much Shield we regain per regeneration. Large ships benefit more from the higher levels of Shield Regeneration because they have larger Shield capacities.
 
So, comments on the new fleet distribution plan for 2314?
Like, I get that you want to have more force in Gabriel, but it feels kinda like you're trying to strip us down to a lot of single-ship sectors to do it. With Sappho out of action, pulling the escorts from Vulcan and the Torb from the A-I sector is hardly the kind of stance I like. I kinda want the Shield and Endurance to come out of drydock before we start making those kinds of 14C displacements towards Gabriel.
 
That's an artefact of the combat engine?
It's a deliberate feature of the combat engine. I imagine it's intended to model the fact that real naval battles usually don't consist of the whole fleet firing a huge volley at one ship while leaving all other ships totally unengaged. Certainly that's not normally what happens in Star Trek. But when you've got a simulator that can only track one shot being fired at a time, of course you have to model individual ships firing at each other one at a time.

While the combat engine has 'target priorities,' the main effect of this is to focus on 'all the escorts' or whatever, not on any single one of them.
 
Proposed Deployment Plan on 2314.Q1

New ships

Constitution-B
Renaissance

Neither of those ships comes out until Q2, so irrelevant. The front page is in error. Here is what I had. Suggest you modify it as you see fit for changes.

Fleet Strength Changes
Endurance (Excelsior) returns from repair 2314.Q2
Shield (Miranda-A) returns from repair, 2314.Q2
2 Centaur-As complete, 2314.Q2
Constitution-B complete, 2314.Q2
Refit of Bon Vivant and T'Kumbra (now Miranda-A) complete, 2314.Q2
Renaissance complete, 2314.Q2
3 Miranda-As complete, 2314.Q3
Intrepid and Eketha (Mirandas) go into refit, 2314.Q3
Saratoga (Constitution-B) returns from repair, 2314.Q4


Sol Sector – Requires D18
  • Current – 1 Constitution-B (5) [Hood], 2 Constellations (6) [Selaya, Vigour], 1 Miranda (2) [Dryad], Starbase 1 (5) = 18D
  • 2314.Q2 – No change.
  • 2314.Q3 – No change.
  • Notes: No change.
Vulcan Sector – Requires D12
  • Current – 1 Constellation (3) [Sappho], 2 Mirandas (4) [Intrepid, Svai], Starbase I (5) = 12D
  • 2314.Q2 - 1 Constellation (3) [Sappho], 2 Mirandas (4) [Intrepid, Svai], 1 Miranda-A (2) [Bon Vivant], Starbase I (5) = 14D
  • 2314.Q3 - 1 Constellation (3) [Sappho], 1 Mirandas (2) [Svai], 1 Miranda-A (2) [Bon Vivant], Starbase I (5) = 12D
  • Notes: Bon Vivant sent here after refit in Q2, then Intrepid sent to refit in Q3.

Andor Sector – Requires D9
  • Current - 1 Constellation (3) [Docana], 1 Miranda (2) [Calypso], Starbase I (5) = 10D
  • 2314.Q2 – No change.
  • 2314.Q3 – No change.
  • No change.
Tellar Sector – Requires D9
  • Current – 1 Miranda (2) [Thunderhead], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 12D
  • 2314.Q2 – 1 Miranda (2) [Thunderhead], 1 Constellation (3) [Stalwart], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 12D
  • 2314.Q3 – No change.
  • Notes: Stalwart sent here in Q2.
Amarkia Sector – Requires D15
  • Current - 2 Centaur-A (6) [Blizzard, Lightning], Starbase I (5), Extra Outposts (5) = 16D
  • 2314.Q2 – No change.
  • 2314.Q3 – No change.
  • Notes: No change.
Ferasa Sector – Requires D15
  • Current - 1 Centaur-A (3) [Yukikaze], 1 Constellation (3) [Stalwart], 1 Constitution-A (5) [Cheron], Starbase I (5) = 16D
  • 2314.Q2 – 1 Renaissance (5) [Renaissance], 1 Constitution-A (5) [Cheron], Starbase I (5) = 15D
  • 2314.Q3 – No change.
  • Notes: Renaissance moved here when it finishes in Q2. Stalwart moved back to Tellar Sector, and Yukikaze sent to KBZ.
Rigel Sector – Requires D9
  • Current – 1 Centaur-A (3) [Gale], 1 Oberth [Suvek] (1), Starbase I (5) = 9D
  • 2314.Q2 – No change.
  • 2314.Q3 – No change.
  • Notes: No change
Apinae Sector – Requires D12
  • Current - 1 Centaur-A (3) [Zephyr], 1 Oberth (1) [Torbriel], Starbase I (5) [Grand Hive of Apinae], Extra Outposts [5] = 14D
  • 2314.Q2 – No change.
  • 2314.Q3 – No change.
  • Notes: No change.
Romulan Border Zone – Requires D12
  • Current - 1 Excelsior (6) [Excelsior], 1 Oberth [Hawking] (1), Starbase I (5) = 12D
  • 2314.Q2 – 1 Excelsior (6) [Excelsior], 1 Centaur-A (3) [new SF build #2], 1 Oberth [Hawking] (1), Starbase I (5) = 15D
  • 2314.Q3 – No change.
  • Notes: New Centaur-A SF build #2 sent here after completion.
Klingon Border Zone – Requires D6
  • Current – 1 Excelsior (6) [Thirishar], 1 Oberth (1) [Inspire] = D7
  • 2314.Q2 – 1 Excelsior (6) [Thirishar], 1 Centaur-A (3) [Yukikaze], 1 Oberth (1) [Inspire] = D10
  • 2314.Q3 – No change.
  • Yukikaze sent here in Q2
Cardassian Border Zone – Requires D10
  • Current - 1 Excelsior (6) [Salnas], 1 Oberth (1) [T'Mir], Starbase I (5) [Lapycorias] = 12D
  • 2314.Q2 - 1 Excelsior (6) [Salnas], 1 Constitution-B (5) [new Ana Font Build #1], 1 Oberth (1) [T'Mir], Starbase I (5) [Lapycorias] = 17D
  • 2314.Q3 – No change.
  • Notes: New Constitution build sent here in 2314.Q2.
Sydraxian Border Zone – Requires D9
  • Current – 1 Constitution-B (5) [Defiant], 1 Miranda (2) [Eketha], Starbase I (5) [Vega] = 12D
  • 2314.Q2 – 1 Constitution-B (5) [Defiant], 1 Miranda (2) [Eketha], Starbase I (5) [Vega] = 12D
  • 2314.Q3 - 1 Constitution-B (5) [Defiant], 1 Miranda-A (2) [new 40E build #1], Starbase I (5) [Vega] = 12D
  • Notes: Eketha sent to refit in Q3 and new Miranda build #1 replaces it.

Gabriel Border Zone – Requirement Left to Starfleet judgment
  • Current – 2 Excelsiors (12) [Kumari, Avandar], 3 Constitution-B (15) [Korolev, Republic, Valiant], 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 2 Centaur-A (6) [Bull, Winterwind], 1 Miranda-A (2) [Fidelity] = 41C
  • 2314.Q2 - 3 Excelsiors (18) [Kumari, Avandar, Endurance], 3 Constitution-B (15) [Korolev, Republic, Valiant], 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 3 Centaur-A (9) [Bull, Winterwind, new SF build #1], 3 Miranda-A (6) [Fidelity, Shield, T'Kumbra] = 56C
  • 2314.Q3 - 3 Excelsiors (18) [Kumari, Avandar, Endurance], 3 Constitution-B (15) [Korolev, Republic, Valiant], 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 3 Centaur-A (9) [Bull, Winterwind, new SF build #1], 5 Miranda-A (10) [Fidelity, Shield, T'Kumbra, new 40E build #2, new 40E build #3] = 62 C.
  • 2314.Q4 - 3 Excelsiors (18) [Kumari, Avandar, Endurance], 4 Constitution-B (20) [Korolev, Republic, Valiant, Saratoga], 1 Constellation (3) [Challorn], 3 Centaur-A (9) [Bull, Winterwind, new SF build #1], 5 Miranda-A (10) [Fidelity, Shield, T'Kumbra, new 40E build #2, new 40E build #3] = 67 C.
 
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