aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The Salnas' partner is the USS Sousa's Rubber Ducky.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So, thoughts…
Given that we are likely going to hit 200pp this coming Snakepit (135 right now, probably going to make out with 25-30pp from our annual income, and 2 more quarters to go) I thought I'd look at the previous Snakepit and sketch out what we're probably going to want.
Vital:
-New shipyard. I've seen proposals for Apinae and Indoria. Either would probably require 35pp for 1 3MT/1 1MT if Amarkia or UFP is any indication. We could also just expand UFP if we felt we really needed the berths quickly. We might want to develop one of the other 1MT shipyards so we have more berths for refits and repairs or request to build a new yard at Betazed, but that's a @Briefvoice question. 35-55pp
-Academy development. Deal with our crew cost problems. We should inquire if we can get an Enlisted Academy (like the Science Academy, so 15pp for +1E) since the Rennie and MiriA are Enlisted heavy, and those are the two ships we'll be building a lot of. 35-50pp
-Diplomatic Push: Ikkit-Ta: These guys were a Hard DC First Contact that we only barely passed. They are also the sort of people the Cardassians would absolutely love to get their paws on. We need to get them on-side ASAP before we have Sydraxians 2.0. 20pp
Important
-Diplomatic Push: Gretarians. We've let them twist in the wind for a while. We might want to try to get them onboard as soon as we can so we can cut off some of the Sydraxians' resource flow. 20pp
-Budget Increase: Since we seem to be running low on SR, perhaps we could ask for a SR-only budget increase? It might reduce the cost some. Or we could maybe ask for an Excelsior Allocation just so that we can afford to start 6 Rennies and still have the resources to repair damaged ships? 40pp?
Useful
-See if we can get a special Council Session, like we did with the Apiata and Sydraxians, to see if we can get the FDS and some Councillor resources thrown at the problem of the Yrillians. Just some intel that tells us if there's a point to using Diplomatic Pushes on them would be nice. 30pp?
-This might be better as a deal with the Hawks, but authorization to release the Explorer Corps for combat missions in the GBZ might be handy. The Cardies are operating 74C of ships in the GBZ. We have 35C in the zone, and are being supported by 2 Light Queenships and 4 Stingers (24C). Amarki are sending a Riala, Hebrinda, and 4 escorts for 14C. If we could get 35C from the rest of the member worlds by Yellow Lighting everyone, that would give us over double the combat power of the Cardassians with the Explorer Corps. We could afford to detach enough units to assault 67 Gabriel and force a fleet battle that will either result in destruction of a great deal of their fleet, or let us force them out of the GBZ and then give us time to destroy their logistics train and set things back a bit. Given that the Cardassians are resource-limited, not crew-limited like we are, giving them more opportunities to harvest resources seems like a bad idea. As for why we might want to send in the EC, this is due to the fact that the combat calculator heavily emphasized outnumbering the enemy. Showing up with a high numbers advantage spreads out our damage between ships and let's us overwhelm them quickly. It's the difference between drawing our entire fleet down to the bone to face the Cardassians at 1.5:1 odds, versus having some escorts to mind the farm while we engage at much better ratios.
-Obviously, we need more Research teams.
----
Also, has anyone put any thought onto which route we should take now that Forward Defense T1 is done? I can see doing To Boldly Go -> Independent Captains -> Frontier Service Training. That would increase our event rate in the BZs and our response rolls while decreasing home sector rates and would get us a massive boost to our EC recruiting (+1 all categories, which is basically a 30-40% bump!) I can also see Border World Focus -> Mutual Support -> Hard Shell System, though, which would rebalance Defense from Home to Border and let ships in the Border help in the home zones as well (plus intercept enemies). This might be useful in helping us actually fulfill those increased event rates, since we've raided the RBZ and KBZ so badly. Neither Mobility Focus (doesn't seem to lead to anything, since Counterpunch is not on the tree) nor Frontline Infrastructure (we can build starbases cheaper and declare more border zones… but we already have a lot of border zones yaaaay) seem particularly useful. The latter does lead to Dispersed Industry (+5 Resources from colonies, which would be very nice, and Redundancy) and Deep Space Construction (Starbases get cheaper and generate pp) though, but I'm not really sure that we need moar resources as much as we do the bonuses and abilities we can't get from other sources.
Given that we are likely going to hit 200pp this coming Snakepit (135 right now, probably going to make out with 25-30pp from our annual income, and 2 more quarters to go) I thought I'd look at the previous Snakepit and sketch out what we're probably going to want.
Vital:
-New shipyard. I've seen proposals for Apinae and Indoria. Either would probably require 35pp for 1 3MT/1 1MT if Amarkia or UFP is any indication. We could also just expand UFP if we felt we really needed the berths quickly. We might want to develop one of the other 1MT shipyards so we have more berths for refits and repairs or request to build a new yard at Betazed, but that's a @Briefvoice question. 35-55pp
-Academy development. Deal with our crew cost problems. We should inquire if we can get an Enlisted Academy (like the Science Academy, so 15pp for +1E) since the Rennie and MiriA are Enlisted heavy, and those are the two ships we'll be building a lot of. 35-50pp
-Diplomatic Push: Ikkit-Ta: These guys were a Hard DC First Contact that we only barely passed. They are also the sort of people the Cardassians would absolutely love to get their paws on. We need to get them on-side ASAP before we have Sydraxians 2.0. 20pp
Important
-Diplomatic Push: Gretarians. We've let them twist in the wind for a while. We might want to try to get them onboard as soon as we can so we can cut off some of the Sydraxians' resource flow. 20pp
-Budget Increase: Since we seem to be running low on SR, perhaps we could ask for a SR-only budget increase? It might reduce the cost some. Or we could maybe ask for an Excelsior Allocation just so that we can afford to start 6 Rennies and still have the resources to repair damaged ships? 40pp?
Useful
-See if we can get a special Council Session, like we did with the Apiata and Sydraxians, to see if we can get the FDS and some Councillor resources thrown at the problem of the Yrillians. Just some intel that tells us if there's a point to using Diplomatic Pushes on them would be nice. 30pp?
-This might be better as a deal with the Hawks, but authorization to release the Explorer Corps for combat missions in the GBZ might be handy. The Cardies are operating 74C of ships in the GBZ. We have 35C in the zone, and are being supported by 2 Light Queenships and 4 Stingers (24C). Amarki are sending a Riala, Hebrinda, and 4 escorts for 14C. If we could get 35C from the rest of the member worlds by Yellow Lighting everyone, that would give us over double the combat power of the Cardassians with the Explorer Corps. We could afford to detach enough units to assault 67 Gabriel and force a fleet battle that will either result in destruction of a great deal of their fleet, or let us force them out of the GBZ and then give us time to destroy their logistics train and set things back a bit. Given that the Cardassians are resource-limited, not crew-limited like we are, giving them more opportunities to harvest resources seems like a bad idea. As for why we might want to send in the EC, this is due to the fact that the combat calculator heavily emphasized outnumbering the enemy. Showing up with a high numbers advantage spreads out our damage between ships and let's us overwhelm them quickly. It's the difference between drawing our entire fleet down to the bone to face the Cardassians at 1.5:1 odds, versus having some escorts to mind the farm while we engage at much better ratios.
-Obviously, we need more Research teams.
----
Also, has anyone put any thought onto which route we should take now that Forward Defense T1 is done? I can see doing To Boldly Go -> Independent Captains -> Frontier Service Training. That would increase our event rate in the BZs and our response rolls while decreasing home sector rates and would get us a massive boost to our EC recruiting (+1 all categories, which is basically a 30-40% bump!) I can also see Border World Focus -> Mutual Support -> Hard Shell System, though, which would rebalance Defense from Home to Border and let ships in the Border help in the home zones as well (plus intercept enemies). This might be useful in helping us actually fulfill those increased event rates, since we've raided the RBZ and KBZ so badly. Neither Mobility Focus (doesn't seem to lead to anything, since Counterpunch is not on the tree) nor Frontline Infrastructure (we can build starbases cheaper and declare more border zones… but we already have a lot of border zones yaaaay) seem particularly useful. The latter does lead to Dispersed Industry (+5 Resources from colonies, which would be very nice, and Redundancy) and Deep Space Construction (Starbases get cheaper and generate pp) though, but I'm not really sure that we need moar resources as much as we do the bonuses and abilities we can't get from other sources.
Oberths are "long range" according to their classification. And while I would like shields and hull, not at the expense of size, which reduces how detectable a ship is. Nor is combat particularly useful because if any ship gets cornered it will be too outmatched to win and escape. Even an Excelsior.
We've proven that the Oberth can do the Intel mission. Presumably future missions will have a shorter structure and perhaps a little less risk. I think that the canonical turnover of Oberths to Intel service will work fine.
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- Location
- Earth
Briefvoice's shipbuild sheet's fleet tab estimates that we can roughly expect to to run into the combat cap around 2322 Q2, shortly after the Ambassador comes out. That does not take into account forward defense however, which will push it a little father back.
Intelligence report comments.
So on all our major borders, no one has drawn down any forces. We on the other hand have stripped those borders bare and currently only have an Excelsior supported by a single science ship on each of them.
Yeah, we need to draw back up when we get more ships in Q2 of next year. This situation makes me far too nervous.
So... not as bad as it could have been. They're identical (well, 1 less crew) to the Connie-B, a stopgap ship we're trying to replace with a better Renaissance class. Except the Daljerra has a cloaking device, and that matters, A fleet of 6 of these, cloaked, could make one hell of a first strike. Boom.
Interesting. The Cardassians aren't trying to prepare a defensive hardpoint yet. Perhaps they haven't settled on a location they like. But they are pushing ahead to a full colony. And the Sydraxians may be trying to grab a new entry world.
Okay, so I overestimated the number of ships. Got to remember that TBG fleets are small. still, that's a hell of a lot of escorts. The Apiata have 24 escorts and we consider them a pretty powerful force. It's difficult to know what it would mean without ship stats, but I'll try some estimates b taking the middle of the ranges we were given.
25 Escorts at let's say minor faction starting escorts stats, C1 S1 H1 L1 P1 D1 1 = 25C, 25H, 25L
4 old model light cruisers at minor faction starting cruiser stats C3 S1 H2 L2 P2 D2 = 12C, 8H, 8L
8 "carryalls" which I'm going to assume are a superior model escort... old Centaur stats maybe C3 S2 H2 L2 P2 D2 = 24C, 16H, 16L
3 Defenders at let's sat Constellation-A stats... C4 H3 L3 = 12C, 8H, 9L
So if they got everything together than maybe 73C. Wow. I mean, I could be off by a lot, but that's still nothing to screw with. Of course they aren't unified, but if they were they probably wouldn't be that intimidated by the Sydraxians. And if I'm wrong and their "escort type small armed ships" are only a little more powerful they could could easily be much stronger. That is certainly a lot of civilian and cargo ships as well. Enough that maybe we could hire some to relieve our shipping needs.
That's a lot of firepower all right. We can't match it with Starfleet alone. Yet.
Possibly the most disturbing thing in this report. The Sydraxians sure as hell aren't preparing to make peace. We need a shipbuilding report on them next time, and badly.
So on all our major borders, no one has drawn down any forces. We on the other hand have stripped those borders bare and currently only have an Excelsior supported by a single science ship on each of them.
Yeah, we need to draw back up when we get more ships in Q2 of next year. This situation makes me far too nervous.
So... not as bad as it could have been. They're identical (well, 1 less crew) to the Connie-B, a stopgap ship we're trying to replace with a better Renaissance class. Except the Daljerra has a cloaking device, and that matters, A fleet of 6 of these, cloaked, could make one hell of a first strike. Boom.
Interesting. The Cardassians aren't trying to prepare a defensive hardpoint yet. Perhaps they haven't settled on a location they like. But they are pushing ahead to a full colony. And the Sydraxians may be trying to grab a new entry world.
Okay, so I overestimated the number of ships. Got to remember that TBG fleets are small. still, that's a hell of a lot of escorts. The Apiata have 24 escorts and we consider them a pretty powerful force. It's difficult to know what it would mean without ship stats, but I'll try some estimates b taking the middle of the ranges we were given.
25 Escorts at let's say minor faction starting escorts stats, C1 S1 H1 L1 P1 D1 1 = 25C, 25H, 25L
4 old model light cruisers at minor faction starting cruiser stats C3 S1 H2 L2 P2 D2 = 12C, 8H, 8L
8 "carryalls" which I'm going to assume are a superior model escort... old Centaur stats maybe C3 S2 H2 L2 P2 D2 = 24C, 16H, 16L
3 Defenders at let's sat Constellation-A stats... C4 H3 L3 = 12C, 8H, 9L
So if they got everything together than maybe 73C. Wow. I mean, I could be off by a lot, but that's still nothing to screw with. Of course they aren't unified, but if they were they probably wouldn't be that intimidated by the Sydraxians. And if I'm wrong and their "escort type small armed ships" are only a little more powerful they could could easily be much stronger. That is certainly a lot of civilian and cargo ships as well. Enough that maybe we could hire some to relieve our shipping needs.
That's a lot of firepower all right. We can't match it with Starfleet alone. Yet.
Possibly the most disturbing thing in this report. The Sydraxians sure as hell aren't preparing to make peace. We need a shipbuilding report on them next time, and badly.
Yrillians are modern tech shipbuilders. I would not underestimate their ship stats.
One new shipyard for the future and a cheap expansion somewhere else sounds optimal to me. In fact, cheapest new berth right now would be to get that 2mt cruiser berth at UP for only 12 political will.
Agree with these.
I just want everyone to be on board with what a diplomatic push can actually accomplish here. It's most certainly not going to "get them onboard" or "cut off some of the Sydraxian' resource flow". The best we can realistically hope for is to open up some lines of communication so we get expanded intelligence. These guys are firmly under Sydraxian thumb, and a few diplomatic visits won't change that. In the worst case, it's Bajor 2.0 and freaks the Sydraxians out so much that they go whole hog and simply install a puppet government. Not saying it will happen, but it's possible.
Agreed?
Now you can argue that better communications is worth the 20pp, but I'd probably rather have a starbase or a new vice admiral position or make Seruk retire. I just don't find what we can actually achieve for 20 pp to be worth it.
Nah, not necessary. We're good for enough budget to produce all the ships our crewing can reasonably support for the next few years.
Seems more like a Sousa deal to me. I still like the idea of approaching the Council about hiring some of their frieghters or shipyards to held reduce our freighter crunch, while simultaneously improving relations with them. I mean, if a special Council session option appears I might vote for it, but we can't request the option. We can only act on it if it appears.
I'm opposed. Those ships are going vital work bringing us extra resources and political will and research points.
And to make Seruk retire! And a Klingon Border Zone Starbase. We waited on that long enough.
I have to go for Border World focus. We need to drive hard for that and then for Mutual Support. Then we can swing back around and get "To Boldly Go".
There is also the fact that if we ever "solve" the Cardassian issue (or depending on how it all works simply start to view them as less of a threat) we are very likely to see a significant reduction in our threat level so we might run into the issue a bit sooner than expected ,
True. They could easily have over 100C with some slightly more generous assumptions.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
We know they build cheap and plentiful rather than high quality. If every one of their escorts is equal to a Miranda, then we need to start seriously considering them as a major power.
Yeah, but if their escorts are only as good as Soyuz, 20 to 30 of them would still be pretty scary.
- Location
- Earth
A more pessimistic/cautious guess given that fact would be:
25 Escorts with slightly less than Miranda-A stats: C2 H2 L2 = 50C, 50H, 50L
4 old model light cruisers with Constellation "Cruiser" refit stats: C4 H3 L3 = 16C, 12H, 12L
8 "carryalls" which I'm going to assume are Centaur-A's: C3 H2 L3 = 24C, 16H, 24L
3 Defenders with a more well rounded Constellation "Cruiser" refit's stats: C4 H3 L4 = 12C, 9H, 12L
For a total of: 102C, 87H, 98L. That total makes me really happy they don't cooperate together more.
- Location
- Patriarchova
I don't know what stats Oneiros is going to give the Yrillian ships, but when I named and designed them I was thinking something like this:
CORSAIR: C1S1H2L1P1D2
Cheap, mass-produced light frigate. Higher H and D due to the Yrillians' centuries of experience as shipbuilders and explorers.
CARYALL (basic/transport): C1S1H3L1P2D3
CARYALL (science mod): C1S4H3L1P2D3
CARYALL (combat mod): C3S1H3L3P2D3
Modular, cruiser-sized ship designed for long journeys. The basic version is meant as a freighter, but with the addition of modules it can be a decent science or war ship (at the cost of cargo and passenger space).
DEFENDER: C5S3H5L4P1D4
A serious business heavy cruiser. These aren't for sale.
Again, no idea what Oneiros has in mind for any of these ships, though.
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Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
[X][WG] A 2v2 with any Ships, including member world ships, (The Salnas against the Blizzard and one Amarki Centaur-A)
[X][ROLES] A large science escort to phase out Oberths
[X][ROLES] A large science escort to phase out Oberths
- Location
- Central Standard Time
That's fine. I was
Two words: Geological sensors.
They'll be another .5-1.5 S.
- Location
- Patriarchova
Where are we at with the Yan-Ros after that RWBY mission? Still barred from affiliate status, or did the diplomatic service get that resolved?
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pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Are Geological sensors really that good?
Edit: Eugh, if they're that good and we build it without them the Kepler's gonna need a refit very quickly.
Edit Edit: Swapping my vote to no project because it's not like we actually lose anything from authorizing the new sci escort project next year or the year after instead of this year, but doing it now costs us any shot at those Geo Sensors on the stock model.
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Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
FDS has had their concerns met and there are no more barriers to affiliate status.
- Location
- Patriarchova
So...are they affiliates now?
The reason I ask is because I really want us to have a strong ally in the GBZ, but I also want to diplopush those imperialistic bug dudes before they get Cardassian'd. Would rather not have to do both.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Do the Cardassians have Apiata? Because, for the imperialistic bug dudes, those would showcase how we handle cultures with different biology/cultural preferences.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X][WG] A 2v2 with any Ships, including member world ships, (The Salnas against the Blizzard and one Amarki Centaur-A)
[X][ROLES] A large science escort to phase out Oberths
[X][ROLES] A large science escort to phase out Oberths
Ehn. I'd rather not waste time with the imperial assholes. They definitely don't seem the type to ever willingly join us, they're pretty far away last I checked, and we have bigger fish to fry right now.