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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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pheonix89 said:
Are Geological sensors really that good?

Edit: Eugh, if they're that good and we build it without them the Kepler's gonna need a refit very quickly.

Edit Edit: Swapping my vote to no project because it's not like we actually lose anything from authorizing the new sci escort project next year or the year after instead of this year, but doing it now costs us any shot at those Geo Sensors on the stock model.
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We have no idea how good they are. For all we know they could just be a flat bonus to mapping missions. Or they could be heavy parts that contribute less to S than normal sensors but also give a +1 or whatever to mapping. Or they could be God-sensors that obsolete everything else.

I don't support waiting. Allowing us to increase S without penalty using survey sensors would break the progression again. The parts would have to be nerfed in that case.
 
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Leila Hann said:
So...are they affiliates now?

The reason I ask is because I really want us to have a strong ally in the GBZ, but I also want to diplopush those imperialistic bug dudes before they get Cardassian'd. Would rather not have to do both.
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OneirosTheWriter said:
Missive from the Federation Diplomatic Service

Questions regarding the the assassins encountered from the Yan-Ros have been resolved to our satisfaction, and the Yan-Ros will be joining the Federation as affiliates.
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They are affiliates. That doesn't mean they'll be helping in the GBZ of course. Frankly, given the amount of stuff they have to deal with on their homeworld, I'd be surprised if they had the resources to support a large navy.
 
Leila Hann said:
So...are they affiliates now?

The reason I ask is because I really want us to have a strong ally in the GBZ, but I also want to diplopush those imperialistic bug dudes before they get Cardassian'd. Would rather not have to do both.
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They're not in the GBZ. They're Honani-aligned.
 
Nervos Belli said:
They are affiliates. That doesn't mean they'll be helping in the GBZ of course. Frankly, given the amount of stuff they have to deal with on their homeworld, I'd be surprised if they had the resources to support a large navy.
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That's fine. I just want to have a friendly port in the GBZ, and to stop the Cardassians from courting them.


EDIT: DEEEEEERP, for some reason I thought the Yan-Ros were in the core-tailward corner of the GBZ. Probably because that's where we first encountered one of their ships. Nevermind.
 
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[X][ROLES] A large science escort to phase out Oberths

At worst, if we explicitly delay for the geological sensors, than we mention that to the HC, and that that research project is active work to the new science ship (which only works if we then propose it as soon as it finishes).
 
The imperialist bugs are due rimward of us. First contact was in the c -5, c -6 region. Given that they're a new contact and this was a LR exploration run of theirs, it's pretty likely they're going to have much bigger problems soon, like trying that tribute spiel on the Klingons.
 
Driven by Apathy said:
Perhaps Starfleet Intelligence could procure a recording of that? It sounds highly amusing.
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If it happens. I think its quite probable given that they seem to be scouting for tributaries and thought trying to extort Saavik in an Excelsior when they had a Connie-A equivalent tops was a good idea.

It would solve several problems for us. Klingons are going to be doing less rattling towards a Klingon-Romulan war if they're rolling up someone else and the Cardassians won't get them.
 
pheonix89 said:
The imperialist bugs are due rimward of us. First contact was in the c -5, c -6 region. Given that they're a new contact and this was a LR exploration run of theirs, it's pretty likely they're going to have much bigger problems soon, like trying that tribute spiel on the Klingons.
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That would be the best thing that could possibly happen, to be honest. They'll be begging to affiliate with us after that.
 
pheonix89 said:
Are Geological sensors really that good?

Edit: Eugh, if they're that good and we build it without them the Kepler's gonna need a refit very quickly.

Edit Edit: Swapping my vote to no project because it's not like we actually lose anything from authorizing the new sci escort project next year or the year after instead of this year, but doing it now costs us any shot at those Geo Sensors on the stock model.
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What we are doing now is authorizing the start of a program to amend our doctrine for an Oberth replacement. This isn't starting research on it, that is done at the snakepit. We don't have to start a research project immediately, until we feel we have the requisite research. Though I imagine if we ammend our fleet doctrine like this, and then take too long to actually fill the requirement, the council might stark asking questions.

Basically new ship projects now go like this;

Issue Requirement > Start Research > Build Prototype > Full Production

The Kepler program here would be Issuing Requirement
The Ambassador has just Started Research
The Renaissance Prototype is being built
The Constitution-B is in Full Production (And is just about to stop)
 
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I'm against spending any pp on the Ittick-Ka (think that's their name) at this point. I would like to know more about them but I'm not sure they're Federation material. We know it was a long range craft that found us and that they take tribute from other races but not much more then that.

Was the long range just long range for them and 3 weeks of warp for us or was it their version of a 5YM and their space is 5-10 sectors away? Is the tribute they take more of a ceremonial offering to show respect, a fair tax equivalent on production, brutally strip-mining vassal worlds or enslaving planetary populations for endless toil in alien sugar mines?

Basically I want more information on them before deciding if they can join the Federation. I don't think a diplopush will get us that. A diplomatic posture report or a write-in at the next intel phase should answer that better.

As to our next Snakepit I'd like us to get a KBZ starbase at Tipperary. For shipyards I'd prefer to build at UP just for the speed the new yards come online. That said, I can get behind a forward yard at Apinae to support our GBZ work. We'll have to see what that new yard would cost and what berths it would give. Then crew expansions and then maybe a diplopush on the Yrillians to keep the balance of some on our side and some on the Syndraxian side of their coming civil war (which will probably start at some point in the next few years as the Syndraxians push them for support).
 
Leila Hann said:
That would be the best thing that could possibly happen, to be honest. They'll be begging to affiliate with us after that.
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Assuming they still can. Someone dumb enough to try and vassalize the Klingons is not liable to remain independent if the KIingons have any say in the matter.
 
JesseJ said:
I'm against spending any pp on the Ittick-Ka (think that's their name) at this point. I would like to know more about them but I'm not sure they're Federation material. We know it was a long range craft that found us and that they take tribute from other races but not much more then that.

Was the long range just long range for them and 3 weeks of warp for us or was it their version of a 5YM and their space is 5-10 sectors away? Is the tribute they take more of a ceremonial offering to show respect, a fair tax equivalent on production, brutally strip-mining vassal worlds or enslaving planetary populations for endless toil in alien sugar mines?

Basically I want more information on them before deciding if they can join the Federation. I don't think a diplopush will get us that. A diplomatic posture report or a write-in at the next intel phase should answer that better.

As to our next Snakepit I'd like us to get a KBZ starbase at Tipperary. For shipyards I'd prefer to build at UP just for the speed the new yards come online. That said, I can get behind a forward yard at Apinae to support our GBZ work. We'll have to see what that new yard would cost and what berths it would give. Then crew expansions and then maybe a diplopush on the Yrillians to keep the balance of some on our side and some on the Syndraxian side of their coming civil war (which will probably start at some point in the next few years as the Syndraxians push them for support).
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Points on the bugs.

Tipperary Starbase is a bad idea. Caledonia is in the KBZ, and a member-to-be homeworld in a border zone NEEDS a max spec orbital defense setup. Building one at Tipperary is a waste of PP.
 
pheonix89 said:
Assuming they still can. Someone dumb enough to try and vassalize the Klingons is not liable to remain independent if the KIingons have any say in the matter.
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Under normal circumstances, yes. The Klingons might not be willing to send a significant force rimward with the current Romulan situation, though. More likely, they'll just fuck the insects up a bit as a warning.

Of course, if I'm wrong and the Klingons can spare the forces to conquer them right now...that's still a satisfying outcome for us. I'd much rather have a Klingon vassal to our south than a Cardassian one. Especially one that got its fleet decimated in the process of becoming a Klingon vassal.
 
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Ato said:
What we are doing now is authorizing the start of a program to amend our doctrine for an Oberth replacement. This isn't starting research on it, that is done at the snakepit. We don't have to start a research project immediately, until we feel we have the requisite research. Though I imagine if we ammend our fleet doctrine like this, and then take too long to actually fill the requirement, the council might stark asking questions.

Basically new ship projects now go like this;

Issue Requirement > Start Research > Build Prototype > Full Production

The Kepler program here would be Issuing Requirement
The Ambassador has just Started Research
The Renaissance Prototype is being built
The Constitution-B is in Full Production (And is just about to stop)
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If we vote for the sci escort we're on a 5 year timetable to start the project till council irritation, and we can't even START the geo sensors tech till the 2316 Research phase without boosting, and it'll take four turns. If we do boost? Still starting the tech in the 2315 phase, wich puts completion at 2319 phase end, and ship design start at the 2320 snakepit.

We're given a timetable we can't make if we start it this turn and want those sensors.
 
pheonix89 said:
If we vote for the sci escort we're on a 5 year timetable to start the project till council irritation, and we can't even START the geo sensors tech till the 2316 Research phase without boosting, and it'll take four turns. If we do boost? Still starting the tech in the 2315 phase, wich puts completion at 2319 phase end, and ship design start at the 2320 snakepit.

We're given a timetable we can't make if we start it this turn and want those sensors.
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Targeting sensors finish next year in 2314 so we can start geo sensors in 2315 and it would take 4 years (2318), if we chose to use 3 boosts it would take 3 years to finish (2317). Now if we have five years to start the project we would need to do so around 2318 so we can just manage it.
 
I want a good science escort by 2020 more than I want geo sensors. All that stuff about how long they'll take proves the point. It's a long way out, we haven't started on them, and there's no guarantee when/if we will.

We can build a perfectly fine ship without them, and if it means we need a refit 15 years down the line I can live with that.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
We have no idea how good they are. For all we know they could just be a flat bonus to mapping missions. Or they could be heavy parts that contribute less to S than normal sensors but also give a +1 or whatever to mapping. Or they could be God-sensors that obsolete everything else.

I don't support waiting. Allowing us to increase S without penalty using survey sensors would break the progression again. The parts would have to be nerfed in that case.
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Headcanon:

We didn't get the Geological Sensors node before since our resident Rock Whisperer was busy.

Jokes aside, the fact that we are getting another part means that there will be a progression jump.

However, the subframes keep the jump limited, and instead mean that it'll shift combat (SR sensors) to science, which is great for the Kepler.

Ato said:
What we are doing now is authorizing the start of a program to amend our doctrine for an Oberth replacement. This isn't starting research on it, that is done at the snakepit. We don't have to start a research project immediately, until we feel we have the requisite research. Though I imagine if we ammend our fleet doctrine like this, and then take too long to actually fill the requirement, the council might stark asking questions.

Basically new ship projects now go like this;

Issue Requirement > Start Research > Build Prototype > Full Production

The Kepler program here would be Issuing Requirement
The Ambassador has just Started Research
The Renaissance Prototype is being built
The Constitution-B is in Full Production (And is just about to stop)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm all for delaying the Kepler for a few years.

We need to save up some crew anyways.
 
Void Stalker said:
Targeting sensors finish next year in 2314 so we can start geo sensors in 2315 and it would take 4 years (2318), if we chose to use 3 boosts it would take 3 years to finish (2317). Now if we have five years to start the project we would need to do so around 2318 so we can just manage it.
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Targetting sensors finish next year, IF WE BOOST. You're talking spending 40rp to compensate for the voterbase getting impatient.
Leila Hann said:
Under normal circumstances, yes. The Klingons might not be willing to send a significant force rimward with the current Romulan situation, though. More likely, they'll just fuck the insects up a bit as a warning.

Of course, if I'm wrong and the Klingons can spare the forces to conquer them right now...that's still a satisfying outcome for us. I'd much rather have a Klingon vassal to our south than a Cardassian one. Especially one that got its fleet decimated in the process of becoming a Klingon vassal.
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Or they poke the Seyek. Probably wouldn't end well for them, Seyek military tech is better than ours in some areas. See: Those "Photon Lance" things the Seyek superbattleship used and their ability to one-shot a H2 escort.
Briefvoice said:
I want a good science escort by 2020 more than I want geo sensors. All that stuff about how long they'll take proves the point. It's a long way out, we haven't started on them, and there's no guarantee when/if we will.

We can build a perfectly fine ship without them, and if it means we need a refit 15 years down the line I can live with that.
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Are you proposing starting the research next snakepit? That's viable, I suppose, that C2 Kepler build would be a lovely support asset for basically anything.
 
pheonix89 said:
Targetting sensors finish next year, IF WE BOOST. You're talking spending 40rp to compensate for the voterbase getting impatient.

Or they poke the Seyek. Probably wouldn't end well for them, Seyek military tech is better than ours in some areas. See: Those "Photon Lance" things the Seyek superbattleship used and their ability to one-shot a H2 escort.

Are you proposing starting the research next snakepit? That's viable, I suppose, that C2 Kepler build would be a lovely support asset for basically anything.
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No targeting sensors finish next year period thanks to the overflow. Currently it is
23/40
18/20
18/20
20/20 (3 overflow that needs to be applied so another of the 18/20 techs may actually be done)

Next turn will be
33/40
28/20 (overflow of 8)
28/20 (overflow of 8)
20/20

Between the 16 overflow and inspiration the last tech will more than finish.
 
We've been told to make choices that match our intentions. My intention would be to ask for a Kepler project at the Snakepit by 2018 or earlier.
 
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