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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Briefvoice said:
I feel that "intelligence ship" will be its own role and that we should not compromise science ship design to try and fit two masters. That's how you get bloated projects with too many requirements. (I guardantee that trying to make it an intelligence ship will add additional constraints.)
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Sigint ship was specified for a reason. We know the Oberth class is a damn fine sigint ship from the T'Mir's work in the CBZ, and the Hawking's work on the RBZ.

The requirements for SIGINT are basically that it can go quiet, that it's got potent passive sensors, and that it has decent sprint abilities.
 
[X][WG] A 2v2 with any Ships, including member world ships, (The Salnas against the Blizzard and one Amarki Centaur-A)
 
Deathbybunnies said:
What if we explicitly called the new ships a mix of intelligence and science? They can't complain if it's part of their stated role.
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They can complain if we build a ship that they don't want us to build.

You're proposing that we say "well, we're making our new ships that do what you want ALSO do what we want and what you don't want us to, but you can't complain because they do what you want!"

Given that historically the Council has behaved more like real people and less like a badly written video game NPC, this is probably going to make them more angry at us, not less.

Random Member said:
It has a higher Presence than a Constellation....
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Yes, but the Constellation has a higher Defense score and is more likely to pass reaction rolls. :p

...Now I'm picturing the adorable USS Docana teaming up with Admiral Sousa's rubber ducky to solve a diplomatic crisis.

...Aaaand now we know what Maryam Ajam's daughter is busy doodling and magneting to the bulkhead on the Stargazer, seeing as how I'm pretty sure Ajam's husband and daughter are along with her from the omakes we did.

Ato said:
Also If ships are going to be defined by roles soon, I would be really in favour of redesignating what we currently call the escort weight class to frigate. Like cruiser the world frigate doesn't have any directly martial connotations. Originally it simply meant a smaller lighter ship.

This would allow us to have science frigates, instead of Science escorts (a term that doesn't really make sense), our other roles would be garrison frigates, and escort frigates.
These terms would describe their roles much better. As the garrison escort right now doesn't really escort much, whilst the combat escort does. It also has the added bonus of taking that icky word 'combat' out of our official role descriptions.
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I like this! Calling escorts 'frigates' works, at least in English, and I suspect most other nations have similar things going, similar words that could be used.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
They can complain if we build a ship that they don't want us to build.

You're proposing that we say "well, we're making our new ships that do what you want ALSO do what we want and what you don't want us to, but you can't complain because they do what you want!"

Given that historically the Council has behaved more like real people and less like a badly written video game NPC, this is probably going to make them more angry at us, not less.
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The previous complaint was that the science ships were being used for duties outside of their intended role. I am suggesting that the entirely new ship we're suggesting has those duties as part of its intended role. Or are you seriously suggesting the council is against intelligence work in general?
 
Personally, I think we should class the Kepler as a Small Science Vessel or something. It's "escort" scale, but it's not an escort.

The Miranda is a purebred escort/destroyer. All it can do is fight as part of a fleet. Hence, Combat Escort.

The Centaur adds some support functionality, but it's got the same role in war. Hence, Generalist Escort.

The Kepler, OTOH, has no business doing "Escort" work. Sure, it's got value as an AWACS equivalent in fleet actions, but it's too expensive and too good at other things to be used as a warship if avoidable.
Simon_Jester said:
They can complain if we build a ship that they don't want us to build.

You're proposing that we say "well, we're making our new ships that do what you want ALSO do what we want and what you don't want us to, but you can't complain because they do what you want!"

Given that historically the Council has behaved more like real people and less like a badly written video game NPC, this is probably going to make them more angry at us, not less.
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Can anyone find the post where the council was actually annoyed at us for accepting Starfleet Intel's request?

Edit: Also with the Kepler's more managable crew costs and better non-S stats we're going to build a LOT of the things. The odds the council will mind if we build one per sector and border zone, then lend one or two to Intel is ... low. I mean they don't mind that the Hawking spends most of its time stopping Romulan cloaked border games.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
The previous complaint was that the science ships were being used for duties outside of their intended role. I am suggesting that the entirely new ship we're suggesting has those duties as part of its intended role. Or are you seriously suggesting the council is against intelligence work in general?
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The Council wants us to be devoted to the pursuit of science, and they weren't happy with us using our Oberth for intelligence work. They want our new science escort to actually be devoted to science, not science/intel. If we want an intel ship, we should work on a design for an intel ship. Not try and make our dedicated science ship multi role.
 
pheonix89 said:
Personally, I think we should class the Kepler as a Small Science Vessel or something. It's "escort" scale, but it's not an escort.

The Miranda is a purebred escort/destroyer. All it can do is fight as part of a fleet. Hence, Combat Escort.

The Centaur adds some support functionality, but it's got the same role in war. Hence, Generalist Escort.

The Kepler, OTOH, has no business doing "Escort" work. Sure, it's got value as an AWACS equivalent in fleet actions, but it's too expensive and too good at other things to be used as a warship if avoidable.
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Hence my suggestion that we redesignate all escort weight vessels as Frigates. The Miranda thus becomes our escort frigate, the Centaur a garrison or general purpose frigate, and the Kepler a science frigate.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
The previous complaint was that the science ships were being used for duties outside of their intended role. I am suggesting that the entirely new ship we're suggesting has those duties as part of its intended role. Or are you seriously suggesting the council is against intelligence work in general?
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The Council may very well be opposed to us building dedicated spy ships that are intended to sneak into our rivals' space and lurk there making quiet observations (and maybe covertly inserting commando teams or who knows what all).

pheonix89 said:
Personally, I think we should class the Kepler as a Small Science Vessel or something. It's "escort" scale, but it's not an escort.
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Yeah; something like "science frigate" really is a better designation.
 
I can probably make the Kepler C3 without much cost if you want it suited for fleet work. Also there will be crew increases on the latest proposed changes. Not many but some.

e: I prefer the C2 version though. Better in a combat cap scenario.
 
Nervos Belli said:
The Council wants us to be devoted to the pursuit of science, and they weren't happy with us using our Oberth for intelligence work. They want our new science escort to actually be devoted to science, not science/intel. If we want an intel ship, we should work on a design for an intel ship. Not try and make our dedicated science ship multi role.
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I thought our relativly low total number of ships makes multi-purpose ships generally a good idea.
And what has good enough sensors for space-anomalies also has good enough sensors for intel.

It just makes sense.
 
[X][WG] A 2v2 with any Ships, including member world ships, (The Salnas against the Blizzard and one Amarki Centaur-A)

[X][ROLES] A large science escort to phase out Oberths
 
[X][ROLES] Suggest something else - a dedicated intelligence ship. Roles: signal interception, decryption, on-site intelligence evaluation. Coordination of intelligence assets, able to stay undetected, and fast enough to reach hot spots / get out of hot spots.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I can probably make the Kepler C3 without much cost if you want it suited for fleet work. Also there will be crew increases on the latest proposed changes. Not many but some.

e: I prefer the C2 version though. Better in a combat cap scenario.
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Agreed. It's much easier for Sousa or her successor to finagle the council into giving effective C discounts on C2 Keplers that blatantly only have just enough gun for use as a multitool and for basic self-defense then is for ones that are superior to a Miranda-A in a fight.
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
We could funnel our Oberths to Intel after we start making Keplers. Smaller ships are suited here anyway. Also, it's canonical!
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T'Mir? Definitely? Hawking if it levels soon as I expect with the Gale having leveled? Also definitely. Others? Only once we've got science coverage on all sectors. God, Mutual Support can't come soon enough, an Excelsior-A/Amby and a Kepler in each border zone will make response everywhere so much better.
 
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I can probably make the Kepler C3 without much cost if you want it suited for fleet work. Also there will be crew increases on the latest proposed changes. Not many but some.

e: I prefer the C2 version though. Better in a combat cap scenario.
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Have we ever come up against combat cap issues before? From memory, we've been consistently significantly below the cap since the start.
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
Daljerra Cruiser Statistics Report


The Romulan Desk has harboured concerns about the development of the Daljerra for a while, and after the investment of further resources, we feel this has been born out. It comes with a higher cost in exotic materials, however, the Daljerra's performance is effectively equivalent to that of a Constitution-B class cruiser. It's agility in subspace is believed to be higher.

With a cloak.

So far the Romulans have built the one prototype, and have approximately five more under construction now.
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Well, I guess it not just us that can do a new cruiser construction wave. Still, assuming the resources/crew numbers work out, I think we are looking at starting 6 Rennies shortly ...
 
Nervos Belli said:
The Council wants us to be devoted to the pursuit of science, and they weren't happy with us using our Oberth for intelligence work. They want our new science escort to actually be devoted to science, not science/intel. If we want an intel ship, we should work on a design for an intel ship. Not try and make our dedicated science ship multi role.
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Thing is, the needs of an intel ship are basically to have high S, high D, and at least decent C in case it gets cornered. Preferably, it can perform for extended periods behind enemy lines, so Explorer-ish design. We also don't realistically need more than a couple of them at a time.

In the amount of time it would take us to design and prototype a specialized SIGINT ship, our Excelsior fleet will have grown considerably. Why not just assign an Excelsior or two to SIGINT duty?
 
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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
We can easily estimate the cap based on the formula and predicted ratifications and ship build schedule. I forget the exact date but it's before the 2330s.
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There's a couple more C capacity use reducer techs. Border World Focus - Outward Focus makes ships in Border Zones count one less, The Mission Unending - Dual Mission makes Explorers count one less.

If I'm right and Fleet Design Doctrines have some actual depth to them there's probably more.
Leila Hann said:
Thing is, the needs of an intel ship are basically to have high S, high D, and at least decent C in case it gets cornered. We also don't realistically need more than a couple of them at a time.

In the amount of time it would take us to design and prototype a specialized SIGINT ship, our Excelsior fleet will have grown considerably. Why not just assign an Excelsior or two to SIGINT duty?
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Because an Excelsior is loud on sensors, and because an Excelsior going silent on comms gets noticed.
 
[X][WG] A 2v2 with any Ships, including member world ships, (The Salnas against the Blizzard and one Amarki Centaur-A)

[X][ROLES] A large science escort to phase out Oberths
 
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