POW's do normally require an offical state of war which is I think not the case here.
Sure, on our planet, where we know everyone and we all agree on how these things work. A nation like the Federation that does a lot of expanding into unknown space with unknown cultures and unknown politics needs more legal wiggle room.
 
Sure, on our planet, where we know everyone and we all agree on how these things work. A nation like the Federation that does a lot of expanding into unknown space with unknown cultures and unknown politics needs more legal wiggle room.
Imagine asking a Klingon 'would you like your crewman back?' ...
 
We got absolutely wrecked in that fight. That's even more of a lopsided result than Enterprise vs the ambush.
I would not say we got wrecked, we took more damage than expected perhaps, though that was more due to them concentrating more on the Endurance and less the Kumari, if they had split damage both would have escaped without damage. As it is we outright destroyed 3 ships and forces 1 into repairs for 9 months and 2 into repairs for 3 months, while we have 2 ships in repairs for 9 months and 1 for 3 months with no ships lost. That was also a good chunk of their fleet as a few years back we got an intel report stating they had 7 to 10 escorts and 2 to 4 cruisers. Of that fleet at that time they have lost 30% or more of the escorts with half of their cruisers force under repair. Not sure the rate at which they would add ships though.
 
[X] PLAN ALL THE DETECTIVES but slightly different.

BTW, @AKuz what the hell happened to the Romulan Fashion sense? I've been looking at some pictures and well, quilted uniform jackets in the 2360s? Did the Tal Shiar take control of the thermostats on your ships? Or was everyone crazy about their fashion in the 60s? I won't critique the patterns you choose for your uniforms, because to humans Romulan fabrics have always clashed, but surely you must agree that something terrible has happened to the empire by this point.
 
So as far as i can tell, a Miranda-A and a Hasque are equal when it comes to combat. Same C, same L, same H. That's good information. Too bad those Kalindrax ships are as tough as they are.

The fight was kind of a mixed bag. We sent 4 cruisers and 2 escorts after a fleet of 4 escorts and 2 cruisers. We expected victory and we got it, but it wasn't nearly as overwhelming as we would have liked. What makes the heavy crew casualties on the Endurance particularly galling is that they were well on their way to being a Blooded ship from number of Events, and all the casualties almost certainly knocked them back on that.
 
[X] PLAN ALL THE DETECTIVES but slightly different.

BTW, @AKuz what the hell happened to the Romulan Fashion sense? I've been looking at some pictures and well, quilted uniform jackets in the 2360s? Did the Tal Shiar take control of the thermostats on your ships? Or was everyone crazy about their fashion in the 60s? I won't critique the patterns you choose for your uniforms, because to humans Romulan fabrics have always clashed, but surely you must agree that something terrible has happened to the empire by this point.

Rigel joined the Federation, and was beholden to Federation/Romulan trade embargoes.
 
NOT DISCUSSING THE VOTE RIGHT NOW. [EDIT: Not gonna have time to do anything about the vote for a while. I know what I want, but I haven't had time to read all the plans and figure out which one I like]

[read read read]

Hmm, the arrogant tribute-demanding space insects could be a problem. I like Saavik's sense of humor though. Also, Sappho's sense of volleyball.

Also... wow. The good news about Deva IX is that we physically destroyed three of their escorts, and massively damaged a fourth. The bad news is that we have massive damage to Endurance and Shield.

I call that a win. A crippled Hasque cancels a crippled Miranda. Light damage to two of their cruisers cancels out light damage to one of our cruisers. And a crippled Excelsior is a reasonably fair trade for totally destroying three Hasques.

It's not a pyrrhic victory unless you look at it and say "Another such victory, and we are undone!" Which we can't. We really can't. The entire Sydraxian navy consists of, oh, at a rough estimate... I don't know, maybe half a dozen cruisers and a dozen or so escorts. We just blew up three of those escorts and put a fourth in the hospital for a year. Even their cruisers are going to need repairs.

If the Sydraxians had managed to straight-up destroy the Endurance, even then this would be something like an even exchange of damages, at a loss rate we could afford, because the Sydraxians would run out of ships a long time before we did if we can keep killing three of their ships for the loss of a single explorer. The political consequences would be an issue, I suppose. But from a military point of view...

This is victory.
_______________________

Now, trying to analyze what happened... I'd like to flag a few issues with @OneirosTheWriter 's attention.

We started out with a Combat 29 squadron up against a Combat 20 squadron. The big surprise there is that Endurance took such a tremendous beating while Kumari was almost untouched.

I haven't tried to read the whole combat log to figure out what was going on there, but it really does seem like the Sydraxians were able to focus fire on Endurance and beat her within an inch of her life, while the flagship wasn't even reduced to half shields. Something similar happened to the cruisers, but to a lesser degree.

If the fire had been more evenly distributed between the two explorers, we'd have had a lot less total casualties from the battle as a whole, I suspect.

One thing I DON'T understand is what stopped our ships from warping out when they hit, oh, 50% hull strength. Maybe actually reading that 300+ line combat log will provide insight...

So, hm. Key issues:

1) Is it entirely random whether crews suffer losses when the ship takes hull hits? As noted, both our escorts AND their escorts suffered proportionately much lower crew casualties when they took hull damage, compared to explorers.

2) DID our ships have a 'warp out' mechanic? One of the advantages of a having a larger fleet in a battle like this SHOULD be that at least in principle, a heavily threatened and engaged ship should be protected by covering fire from its division-mates.

3) Was there some underlying mechanic for why Kumari took waaaay less hits? Pure random target selection really wouldn't seem to explain that, not in a 300-round battle. I may look closer, but I am concerned that there may be non-randomness built into the combat engine that wasn't originally intended to be there.
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GENERIC RANDOM STUFF.

All hail Department of Redundancy Department!
If their redundancy makes them immune to being blown up by bombs, I'm all for it.

Did you defect from the Romulan diplomatic service?
If so, can we get a few more defectors? I like having some sneaky around. seamstresses because seriously getting all these personal cloaks made is a massive burden on our tailoring infrastructure.

With the massive crew casualties on the Endurance apparently being a random happenstance of the RNG, I think I have a good in universe justification for it. Possibly omake worthy.

Sydraxian marines.
I like this, I think I'll omake it. I have JUST the character for it.
 
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POW's do normally require an offical state of war which is I think not the case here.I think that officially we are at peace with the Sydraxians, Cardassia etc., it just that we ignore that in the Gabriel Zone which should lead to quite some interesting political situations...

We've had a state of war with them for a long time, actually. At least since the Miracht blew out of there. We've just politely ignored it rather trying to crush them like bugs.
 
Hmm too bad the Endurance got damaged at this point. It would have been nice to refit her as an Excelsior-A. Unless we could either hold off her repairs or use her as the test bed for the upgrade program.
 
No, we proscribed geographic limits to the conflict. We're still very much at war with them, considering we just blew three of their ships out of space.

We will also blow up Cardassian ships and their affiliates despite being very much not being officially at war with them simply due to the Gabriel Border Zone being some-kind of legal no-mans land.

If we were still at war with them I would suspect to see it on fro example the front-page (where it existed for several turns) but it disappeared from tehre with said treaty...
 
[X] PLAN ALL THE DETECTIVES but slightly different.

BTW, @AKuz what the hell happened to the Romulan Fashion sense? I've been looking at some pictures and well, quilted uniform jackets in the 2360s? Did the Tal Shiar take control of the thermostats on your ships? Or was everyone crazy about their fashion in the 60s? I won't critique the patterns you choose for your uniforms, because to humans Romulan fabrics have always clashed, but surely you must agree that something terrible has happened to the empire by this point.

Quilted uniform jackets?

You mean energy and exotic particle effect resistant military uniforms with layered and patterned smart cloth that can take a bullet as well as it takes a phaser blast?

> : )

Sadly fashion comes after military practicality in the Imperial Fleet. It's not our fault that we care more about our crew surviving combat than discovering new ways to be fashion forward and issuing skants to our crew so their legs can melt during a battle.

> : )

Also: Big shoulders were sort of an "in" thing. It just happens sometimes that it takes a few years before a society figures out that it has wronged itself.

Of course, during the Dominion war, our experience with combat and increased funding helped us to improve both the effectiveness and fashionability of the standard uniform so that by the time Shinzon's little hiccup happened we were looking pretty good.

> : )
 
Had a bit more time than I thought. SWB's plan is literally identical to the dream plan I came up with before I started reading people's plans.

I would also like to note that SWB's "Plan Maximum Detectives, Maximum Impact" and Night's "PLAN ALL THE DETECTIVES but slightly different." have been amened to the point where they are identical, aside from the order in which the COMP and SHIP votes are listed.

[X] Plan Maximum Detectives, Maximum Impact
 
We will also blow up Cardassian ships and their affiliates despite being very much not being officially at war with them simply due to the Gabriel Border Zone being some-kind of legal no-mans land.

If we were still at war with them I would suspect to see it on fro example the front-page (where it existed for several turns) but it disappeared from tehre with said treaty...

How else would you choose to describe the situation in the Gabriel Expanse but a war? With either the Cardassians or the Syndraxi? The fact we're not officially calling it one is kind of irrelevant to the fact we are very much engaged in wartime operations. We just staged an offensive fleet action involving multiple explorer-weight ships, for chrissakes. That's not a peacetime activity.
 
So we sent a C29 H19 L25 force against a C20 H16 L22 force in a planed engagement, and got a Excelsior, Constitution-B, and Miranda-A pretty beat up for our troubles.

'sigh' At least we destroyed 3 escorts while doing so.

Anyway, voting for this.

[X] PLAN ALL THE DETECTIVES but slightly different.

Edited because I can't seem to read sometimes.
 
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