pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
No. We did not get wrecked. We killed 3 ships and badly damaged a fourth in exchange for two ships moderately damaged and one lightly damaged.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
I think in a fleet engagement, the decision to retreat is as a fleet. Not as individuals.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
... I just noticed: Isn't the Republic Demora Sulu's ship? She's now seen combat action as a captain.
There doesn't look like an individual warp out mechanic. The fleet as a whole warped out. And really quickly too: Turn 397 had them start retreating, then the next turn they "successfully retreated" (that "successfully" may indicate that this is a roll).
I'm going to try to do a more detailed analysis later today with per-ship stats.
Wouldn't that just be the target firing? Unless you think ships can get away with avoiding being focused fired?
There doesn't look like an individual warp out mechanic. The fleet as a whole warped out. And really quickly too: Turn 397 had them start retreating, then the next turn they "successfully retreated" (that "successfully" may indicate that this is a roll).
I'm going to try to do a more detailed analysis later today with per-ship stats.
Wouldn't that just be the target firing? Unless you think ships can get away with avoiding being focused fired?
Something I noticed while re-reading the front page for a post on the SDB:
So with about 50 people per point of crew we can put the losses at:
Underlining mine.
So with about 50 people per point of crew we can put the losses at:
Federation:
200 Officers
150 Enlisted
200 Technicians
Total: 550 Crew
Sydraxian:
150 Officers
200 Enlisted
250 Technicians
Total: 600 Crew
That is a lot of lives lost.200 Officers
150 Enlisted
200 Technicians
Total: 550 Crew
Sydraxian:
150 Officers
200 Enlisted
250 Technicians
Total: 600 Crew
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
On one hand, that's true. On the other, what's the poulation base of the Federation?
The differentiation between a official war or not is important because, based on the real world, it has important and wide-reaching legal consequences (for example regarding mobilization, treatment of prisoners etc.). We have seen something of that during for exmaple the the Cardassian ghost ship crisis when we got the ability to order ships of the member worlds around (and several off-hand mentions of special fleet productions in for example the case of the Caitains). In this conflict we have none of that with our member fleets operating seemingly independently from Starfleet which strengthens my suspicions that this is not officially a war or treated as such by the various powers.
So yeah, we may engage in warlike activities but we are very much not in an official state of war...
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
And she kicked ass!
[grins approvingly]
It's been alluded to that there may be some doctrine or policy choice that allows individual damaged ships to warp out. If so, I think I'd like to look into that.
Well, I'm still unclear on what level of focus firing is going on here.
The very first (pre-Biophage) iteration of the combat engine had the firepower of whole fleets focus on one ship at a time; this resulted in extremely heavy losses and no one ship having any good chance of survival after the combined blowtorch of fire from the enemy fleet focused on it. You can see an illustration of this from the combat log at Tregh'bak, I believe. Or from T'Lorel's battle(s) involving those weird space monsters and their cultists.
Basically, it's a bit weird if target selection is random or semi-random and yet mysteriously almost nobody shot at Kumari. Endurance took over 70 points of lasting damage, roughly, while Kumari only took about 30. All our other ships fell into that range of 25-45 damage, so Endurance COULD just have really terrible luck, I suppose. She is commanded by Chekov, after all, who's like the TOS version of Harry Kim in terms of having random shit happen to him.
But it's the kind of weird 'spike' that makes me look for a causal mechanism, only I don't expect to be online long enough to analyze the combat log to death. Though I'm waiting on something else to happen so maybe I'll have more time than I expect.
_____________________
Also, @Kaze, our damaged Constitution-B took less than 10% hull damage, suffered negligible crew casualties, and destroyed an escort. The Republic shouldn't be counted as having gotten beat up; our ConnieBees performed quite well.
I would just like to make sure everyone bears in mind that from the Sydraxians point of view, they just got their butts kicked. They may put on a brave face and sing songs of their courage, but all four of their escorts were wrecked or in one lucky case merely crippled. At the end of the battle, we had Combat 15 of totally undamaged ships. They had no undamaged ships.
Even if our damaged ships, including the one that was barely scratched, had pulled out of the battle, we would still have had enough muscle left over to rip both their cruisers to pieces- if they hadn't run for their lives, which they did.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Maximum Detectives, Maximum Impact
In case any of you missed it, @OneirosTheWriter quoted us ~9 months to a year on the endurance repairs and the rest can be done at starbase. Yes, the crew losses were an issue, but the action as a whole was far from pyrrhic, especially considering the strategic value it has. The crew isn't a terribly huge issue, beyond the sad fact of not getting another 'blooded' crew, as we have more than enough reserves of standard crew.
One interesting thing to note is how absolutely out of date the Stargazer will be when it returns. I wonder if there's a possibility the Kadeshi could give it the refit at some point?
In case any of you missed it, @OneirosTheWriter quoted us ~9 months to a year on the endurance repairs and the rest can be done at starbase. Yes, the crew losses were an issue, but the action as a whole was far from pyrrhic, especially considering the strategic value it has. The crew isn't a terribly huge issue, beyond the sad fact of not getting another 'blooded' crew, as we have more than enough reserves of standard crew.
One interesting thing to note is how absolutely out of date the Stargazer will be when it returns. I wonder if there's a possibility the Kadeshi could give it the refit at some point?
We had that discussion already and I think the consensus was that it was extremely unlikely...
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ah, well they'll come back as Elite which is cool, and I suspect some weird voyager style crew.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
On second thought...that might be why the Sydraxians focus fired on the Endurance. They recognized the ship and wanted to avenge their embarrassment of an encounter last year.
I do agree that the retreat mechanic needs a look into.
Current vote tally (combined "Maximum Detectives, Maximum Impact" and "ALL THE DETECTIVES but slightly different" since they're now identical):
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 1276 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1
[X] Plan Maximum Detectives, Maximum Impact
[X][COPS] No changes (may not be taken with any other COPS options).
[X][DETECTIVES] Vulcan Central Inspectorate could be called on. Capable of working through vast conspiracies and webs of deduction. (1 Influence, +3 Impact, apply penalty to Syndicate financial/shipbuilding operations)
[X][DETECTIVES] Detectives from the Indorian Argyle Bench, the center of their serious crimes investigations group can come into play, their natural instinct for pattern matching and recognition could unknot conspiracies. (1 Influence, +2 Impact, bonus to tracking down perpetrators of attacks)
[X][DEVICES] Leave as is
[X][SIG] Leave as is
[X][COMP] Allow Amash Hagan to proceed. (2 Influence, -2 Syndicate Resilience, +4 Impact)
[x][SHIP] A Rigellian Contingent, with a Turtleship and a Cutter (1 Influence, +4 Impact)
[X][ENG] No thanks
No. of Votes: 14
[X] Plan: Open force is broken, concentrate on burning the roots.
[X][COPS] No changes (may not be taken with any other COPS options).
[X][DETECTIVES] Vulcan Central Inspectorate could be called on. Capable of working through vast conspiracies and webs of deduction. (1 Influence, +3 Impact, apply penalty to Syndicate financial/shipbuilding operations)
[X][DETECTIVES] Detectives from the Indorian Argyle Bench, the center of their serious crimes investigations group can come into play, their natural instinct for pattern matching and recognition could unknot conspiracies. (1 Influence, +2 Impact, bonus to tracking down perpetrators of attacks)
[X][DEVICES] Leave as is
[X][SIG] Leave as is
[X][SHIP] None
[X][COMP] Allow Amash Hagan to proceed. (2 Influence, -2 Syndicate Resilience, +4 Impact)
[X][ENG] Send out Tellarite Engineers (1 Influence, improve bomb resistance to bombs)
No. of Votes: 13
[X] Plan Rigellians
[X][COPS] No changes (may not be taken with any other COPS options).
[X][DETECTIVES] Vulcan Central Inspectorate could be called on. Capable of working through vast conspiracies and webs of deduction. (1 Influence, +3 Impact, apply penalty to Syndicate financial/shipbuilding operations)
[X][DEVICES] Leave as is
[X][SIG] Leave as is
[X][SHIP] A Rigellian Contingent, with a Turtleship and a Cutter (1 Influence, +4 Impact)
[X][COMP] Allow Amash Hagan to proceed. (2 Influence, -2 Syndicate Resilience, +4 Impact)
[X][ENG] Send out Tellarite Engineers (1 Influence, improve bomb resistance to bombs)
No. of Votes: 5
[X] Plan Ships, Ships, Amash Hagan and Vulcans
[X][COPS] No changes (may not be taken with any other COPS options).
[X][DETECTIVES] Vulcan Central Inspectorate could be called on. Capable of working through vast conspiracies and webs of deduction. (1 Influence, +3 Impact, apply penalty to Syndicate financial/shipbuilding operations)
[X][DEVICES] Leave as is
[X][SIG] Leave as is
[X][COMP] Allow Amash Hagan to proceed. (2 Influence, -2 Syndicate Resilience, +4 Impact)
[X][SHIP] A Tellarite Contingent, with a Constitution-B, a Centaur, and an Oberth (1 Influence, +4 Impact)
[X][SHIP] A Rigellian Contingent, with a Turtleship and a Cutter (1 Influence, +4 Impact)
[X][ENG] No thanks
No. of Votes: 1
[x] steal the secret of nonlethal computer screens from the Sydraxians
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 34
Last edited:
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Hm.
Looking over what happened to Endurance, there was a REALLY BAD hit (in terms of crew casualties) from one of the Kalindraxes at Turn 351, which killed four units of our crew at once (the norm is more like one or maybe two units). If it hadn't been for having the crew get effectively critted there, they'd have come out of the battle with something more like 3/3/3 crew instead of 2/2/2. And our total crew casualties would have been eight to the Sydraxians' twelve, rather than eleven to twelve.
...
It wasn't even an unusual amount of damage from a structural point of view. The shot hit for about two and a half points of hull damage, like a lot of others. It didn't reduce the ship below any of the usual damage thresholds as far as I can tell.
It just killed four units of crew instead of one.
So yeah, it looks like one of the big 'shock factor' aspects of the battle was caused by a random high-volatility "spike" in crew damage caused by a single hit wiping out ~200 people. I'm not even sure what part of the ship that was supposed to hit that would cause that much damage without physically breaking the ship into pieces or something. So I'm going to take a page from Leila Hann and chalk it up to boarding parties or something.
___________
EDIT: The only other hit in the battle that inflicted multiple units of crew loss on either side of the battle also hit Endurance, from the other Kalindrax. Either Endurance got spectacularly unlucky, or Kalindraxes have some kind of unique "kill lots of your dudes" ability.
So basically, of the eleven units of crew we lost (ten of them aboard the Endurance), FIVE of them were lost to 'critical hit' crew damage above and beyond the baseline "1 crew" damage that hull hits often inflict. Meanwhile no other ship on either side took 'critical hits' to crew, and only one of our other ships took a crew-damaging hit at all.
If the critical hit mechanic were taken out of play, our crew losses would have been seven to their twelve, and Endurance would have ended the battle with four more units of crew. No other ship would have noticed any difference.
Looking over what happened to Endurance, there was a REALLY BAD hit (in terms of crew casualties) from one of the Kalindraxes at Turn 351, which killed four units of our crew at once (the norm is more like one or maybe two units). If it hadn't been for having the crew get effectively critted there, they'd have come out of the battle with something more like 3/3/3 crew instead of 2/2/2. And our total crew casualties would have been eight to the Sydraxians' twelve, rather than eleven to twelve.
...
It wasn't even an unusual amount of damage from a structural point of view. The shot hit for about two and a half points of hull damage, like a lot of others. It didn't reduce the ship below any of the usual damage thresholds as far as I can tell.
It just killed four units of crew instead of one.
So yeah, it looks like one of the big 'shock factor' aspects of the battle was caused by a random high-volatility "spike" in crew damage caused by a single hit wiping out ~200 people. I'm not even sure what part of the ship that was supposed to hit that would cause that much damage without physically breaking the ship into pieces or something. So I'm going to take a page from Leila Hann and chalk it up to boarding parties or something.
___________
EDIT: The only other hit in the battle that inflicted multiple units of crew loss on either side of the battle also hit Endurance, from the other Kalindrax. Either Endurance got spectacularly unlucky, or Kalindraxes have some kind of unique "kill lots of your dudes" ability.
So basically, of the eleven units of crew we lost (ten of them aboard the Endurance), FIVE of them were lost to 'critical hit' crew damage above and beyond the baseline "1 crew" damage that hull hits often inflict. Meanwhile no other ship on either side took 'critical hits' to crew, and only one of our other ships took a crew-damaging hit at all.
If the critical hit mechanic were taken out of play, our crew losses would have been seven to their twelve, and Endurance would have ended the battle with four more units of crew. No other ship would have noticed any difference.
Last edited:
So we have 5 influence this year. Does that mean we have 5 influence next year as well?
Or am I remembering our snakepit purchases this year wrongly?
[X] Plan: Open force is broken, concentrate on burning the roots.
I'm not keen on this. I'd rather deploy more cops and more engineers but it's preferable to the other front-runner which has no engineers.
Why do people like Amash Hagan so much?
fasquardon
Or am I remembering our snakepit purchases this year wrongly?
[X] Plan: Open force is broken, concentrate on burning the roots.
I'm not keen on this. I'd rather deploy more cops and more engineers but it's preferable to the other front-runner which has no engineers.
Why do people like Amash Hagan so much?
fasquardon
- Location
- Germany
It seems to have no drawbacks. No forces bound that we could use elsewhere, no price in pp or militarization, and just one influence for good impact and further resilience-reduction.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Because -2 Syndicate Resilience is functionally equivalent to +2 yearly impact, and spending 2 Influence for +6 Impact is just about the best deal available that doesn't involve ships or detectives. Since most people seem to consider ships unlikely to be very helpful after Nash gets done applying blue foot to green backside, that makes Amash Hagan an attractive target, on par with the detectives.
_____________________________
EDIT ABOUT ENDURANCE:
I will also note that the Sydraxian fleet finally decided to run away after Endurance blew up another Hasque- and that was AFTER she'd sustained massive crew losses from the two critical hits.
_____________________________
EDIT ABOUT ENDURANCE:
I will also note that the Sydraxian fleet finally decided to run away after Endurance blew up another Hasque- and that was AFTER she'd sustained massive crew losses from the two critical hits.
Last edited:
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Umm what's not to like? It's the best bang/buck option there with it's effective 6 impact/year.
He said the Endurance and the Shield would both be 9 month jobs, with the Republic doable at a starbase. Subject to figuring out how Commodore Suarez affects things. We're a little light on open berths at the moment; hopefully we can beg from a Member World.
@Simon_Jester i suspect the Sydraxian torpedos hit the engineering hull to do that much damage. Hit some sort of critical system and flooded a deck with warp coolant or plasma.
Or sydraxian marines that'd be cool too.
Or sydraxian marines that'd be cool too.
- Location
- Patriarchova
One possible issue with the combat system is that, if hits that do damage have a flat percent chance of killing crew, a tougher hull means that the ship is more likely to lose people. That doesn't explain all of what happened to Endurance, but it explains some of it.
There's no way I can chew through the log on the phone, but correct me if I'm wrong, in the biophage logs crew loss was rolled when hull fell below certain thresholds, 75%, 50%, etc? Is that still the case here? Or am I misremembering?