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Starfleet Design Bureau

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I think the Stingray already well outclasses any sort of frigate- or destroyer-weight ship that we can presently make, given it's classified as a light cruiser.

But yes, I agree on building a new light to medium cruiser.
 
Zimmerwald1915 said:
I agree that we had better make up our minds sooner rather than later about whether our NXs count as generic or as heavy cruisers within the Earth fleet system (comparisons to near-peer powers are secondary). It would resolve much of the uncertainty about whether to design a light or heavy cruiser next -- if the NX is heavy, and it doesn't need replacing (which it doesn't, it performs just fine), then we don't need to design a heavy cruiser. If the NX isn't heavy, we might benefit from a heavy cruiser design.
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Jensaarai said:
True. I meant more in the sense of, internationally speaking, what would other nations classify something like the Thunderchild-class as, thinking back to how the NX, though listed by the UE as an explorer-type, most everyone else considers it a heavy cruiser equivalent.
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This is only my opinion, but I think the Andorians and Vulcans would see our Stingrays as frigates, NX-class as light cruiser, and Thunderchild as heavy cruiser.

This is just me going off how VCS Sh'ran (at least a cruiser, I think) and UES Thunderchild both destroying a warbird with an opening salvo of energy weapons (no torpedoes).
 
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Once we get shield technology just about every warship we have will become obsolete overnight. Shields protect from all directions equally, can regenerate, and aren't maintainence hogs like polarized armor. Also can't really refit ships under polarized armor paradigm to a shield paradigm, I imagine ships will become suddenly way more maneuverable with less mass issues and all.
 
Maybe it would be fun to design a Starbase for a change as the frontline moves into unclaimed space and possibly the war ends with a hostile border to fortify?
 
DaLintyGuy said:
It's a decent upgrade but the larger benefit is preventing spot damage. The destruction of near surface systems like weapons, engines, and so on that makes a ship fight worse.

True regenerating shields only come in in... Something like a century?
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I mean it in the sense that you could lose say, 80% shield integrity, then be fine after a couple of minutes of recharging instead of replacing entire chunks of hull or armor.
 
Bedpotato said:
Also even after this beating onboard resources were enough to make her combat able again inside a week. (That alone is the most impressive thing UES Thunderchild did on her first mission)
So all in all she killed 3 Romulan warships, destroyed a armed Starbase and assisted in two more kills. Then she could go back to another battle inside a week with only crew repairs.
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That amount of spare parts is porbably where all the unused internal space went.

Still, it'd be interesting to see the Romulan side of this. It looks like no-one's built dreadnoughts yet, so this was the first time anyone's seen one in combat. So in comes this hilariously over-massive ship. You fire a full alpha strike at her, and she just keeps on coming through, casually punting a Warbird into the past tense while at it, alpha strikes your defense station, and then just flies around taking more of a beating than anything unshielded has any right to take.

When you almost manage to get this thing, you're forced to withdraw, but, eh. At least it'll be stuck to the drydocks for at least a year with the amount of beating it took.

Cue, a mere one week later:

Edit;
Ash19256 said:
Something shorter would be Sic Alli Vivent - roughly translates as "So Others Will Live", which seems appropriate for a ship like this.
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That's perfect, considering her namesake.
 
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I love the warship names, and how all the Stingrays are named for Stingray species. I imagine the Vulcans and Andorians are very confused when they get an exact translation of names like Butterfly and Softnose.
 
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Jensaarai said:
I think the Stingray already well outclasses any sort of frigate- or destroyer-weight ship that we can presently make, given it's classified as a light cruiser.

But yes, I agree on building a new light to medium cruiser.
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The issue with the Stingray is the technology we have and industry building them, not the design.

The Stingray-class was designed as an anti-piracy/anti-raiding ship that had a modest but significant armament and the speed to effectively patrol and protect our colonies/shipping lanes from low-level threats, all while being at a very affordable cost.

It was never meant to go up against technologically superior warships that also outnumbered it. That's a match-up that no design can do well in.

Nevertheless, the Stingrays have performed quite well despite the circumstances. They've augmented the firepower and tactical options of our larger vessels when we had literally nothing else, and they did as good a job as could be asked in defending Earth from destruction.

But technology is moving on, and the circumstances Starfleet is in have dramatically changed. Firepower is now a much bigger concern, and specifically, burst-damage is far more important. Our industry has grown a fair bit, so we can afford to spend more. And with more advanced technology, we can have a ship that will punch much harder even without major increases in displacement.

But most critically, Starfleet has bought itself some breathing room. It no longer has to frantically rush what it can into operation to prevent an entire planet from being genocided. Sadly, that's too late for Alpha Centauri, but considering that the vast, vast majority of our population, resources, and industry are in Sol, it's not a huge loss. The attack on Earth was the nightmare scenario, and now we've definitively denied the possibility of a repeat in the near-term.

I'm hoping that our allies will be willing to donate even old shield tech to us so that we can make our ships tougher without upping the tonnage much.

Also: it's worth noting that Starfleet fought like hell to liberate a Tellarite colony from Romulan occupation, and succeeded. The Vulcans and Andorians both provided timely aid as well. That's a huge milestone for the Coalition of Planets.
 
MightbeaMimic said:
Postwar we should turn one of the Thunderchild class ships into a diplomatic/exploration vessel, just to start the Starfleet tradition of diplomatic vessels with more firepower than everyone else's dedicated warships
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Hell no! The Dedicated warship stays a dedicated warship. Again possesing some dedicated warships ready and able to jump on anyone stupid enough to start shit is just good sense. It will also stop many of the powers that used the federation weakness for their own benefit like theCardassians with the Federation Colonies and the Romulans with the treaty of Algernon.

Also I wish to kill multirole crap before it becomes thing in quest. If people want a exploration ship lets design a dedicated long range explorer.
pedanterrific said:
Have you heard of this thing called the "Romulan Neutral Zone"? It lasted for two hundred years.
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It did not make any sense in canon and only existed thanks to plot Armor. The same goes for the Treaty of Algernon(A monomuntal stupid treaty. At that point figthing a war with the hostile romulans would have been the better choice.)

Lets move away from Star Trek canons many faults to this quest. In canon the Romulans were out to conquer/subdue the Coalition and Humanity. In quest they instead have shown multiple times that they are genocidial Backstabbers.(Infilltrating Vulcan Government, Bilogical attack on Andor, attempted Genocoide of earth, the genocide of the Alpha centauri colony.)

Why would anyone trust that the romulans stay peaceful on their side of a border? (To be specific how can you trust them to not go full tilt preparation for round two genocide boogaloo?)Before this war the Romulans could not be bothered to actually mark their borders instead they used cloaked Mines/warships and jumped anyone they thought they could take.

Their WMD usage, Biological attack, infiltration, and attempt to planet kill earth is in no way shape or form going to be forgotten. The Coalition is made of rational Democratic governments. They CAN not trust that a irrational rouge nation Like the Romulans will head any treaty that is not enforced with a boot on their neck. Doing so is betting the life of Billions on the Romulans not being genocodial backstabbers.

Or to make it short any Politician that tries to make this war stop before a coalition fleet is in orbit of Romulus dictating terms looses their career.(And possible more if the mob gets going)
 
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The Romula neutral zone only works if both sides think the other will abide to it. The romulans certainly don't think the Coalition will, and anyone who trusts the Romulans enough to after they launched a xenocidal extermination strike without even bothering to declare war, released a biological plague and attemtped to coup another government all in secret to hodl to thier word is dreaming and delusional.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
The issue with the Stingray is the technology we have and industry building them, not the design.

The Stingray-class was designed as an anti-piracy/anti-raiding ship that had a modest but significant armament and the speed to effectively patrol and protect our colonies/shipping lanes from low-level threats, all while being at a very affordable cost.

It was never meant to go up against technologically superior warships that also outnumbered it. That's a match-up that no design can do well in.

Nevertheless, the Stingrays have performed quite well despite the circumstances. They've augmented the firepower and tactical options of our larger vessels when we had literally nothing else, and they did as good a job as could be asked in defending Earth from destruction.

But technology is moving on, and the circumstances Starfleet is in have dramatically changed. Firepower is now a much bigger concern, and specifically, burst-damage is far more important. Our industry has grown a fair bit, so we can afford to spend more. And with more advanced technology, we can have a ship that will punch much harder even without major increases in displacement.

But most critically, Starfleet has bought itself some breathing room. It no longer has to frantically rush what it can into operation to prevent an entire planet from being genocided. Sadly, that's too late for Alpha Centauri, but considering that the vast, vast majority of our population, resources, and industry are in Sol, it's not a huge loss. The attack on Earth was the nightmare scenario, and now we've definitively denied the possibility of a repeat in the near-term.

I'm hoping that our allies will be willing to donate even old shield tech to us so that we can make our ships tougher without upping the tonnage much.

Also: it's worth noting that Starfleet fought like hell to liberate a Tellarite colony from Romulan occupation, and succeeded. The Vulcans and Andorians both provided timely aid as well. That's a huge milestone for the Coalition of Planets.
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Yeah I largely agree. The Stingray has just sadly been outpaced. It might still have a life as a minor patrol or colonial defense ship, but it's gotten too old for the more dangerous work.
Bedpotato said:
Also I wish to kill multirole crap before it becomes thing in quest
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lmao, it's already a thing. What do you think the NX-class explorer is?

You can keep hyping up dedicated warships all you want, but we know they don't work as well as multi-role generalists do for Starfleet.
 
aceraptor said:
If we had light cruisers instead of the Thunderchild that station would have been alive since our ships would have been too busy dying to the Warbirds to commit to a thunder run to destroy it.
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I know that's a term for a tactic from the Gulf War, but considering the name of the ship that just pulled something similar, I have a feeling that it might be entering the Starfleet lexicon of tacical maneuvers soon with a new meaning.
 
luckless21 said:
The problem is that since the refit the only change has been to guns which should be retrofit-able and torpedoes that might be while being unsure if it's worth a block 3 refit or building a new ship just for those.
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But it was only able to partially benefit from the new warp engines, and I'm not sure if the photonic torpedoes are backwards-compatible, given they are a completely different launcher from the previous atomic/spatial system.

I think a new design to capitalize on the stuff we've developed since then is a good move to make, along with it being more compatible with future prototypes.
 
Bedpotato said:
Lets move away from Star Trek canons many faults to this quest. In canon the Romulans were out to conquer/subdue the Coalition and Humanity. In quest they instead have shown multiple times that they are genocidial Backstabbers.(Infilltrating Vulcan Government, Bilogical attack on Andor, attempted Genocoide of earth, the genocide of the Alpha centauri colony.)
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CuriousRaptor said:
The Romula neutral zone only works if both sides think the other will abide to it. The romulans certainly don't think the Coalition will, and anyone who trusts the Romulans enough to after they launched a xenocidal extermination strike without even bothering to declare war, released a biological plague and attemtped to coup another government all in secret to hodl to thier word is dreaming and delusional.
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Are you under the impression the name of the quest is Starfleet High Command? Because it's not, it's Starfleet Design Bureau. The quest is about designing starships, not deciding politics.
 
Ash19256 said:
Something shorter would be Sic Alli Vivent - roughly translates as "So Others Will Live", which seems appropriate for a ship like this.
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Turns out, according to google translate, it's actually pretty short: Manu Mea, Non Occides, which google then retranslates as "By my hand you will not kill".

I honestly prefer it, as it makes a firm statement of intent, purpose, and limits thereof. This ship isn't here to start a fight, it's here to end one.
 
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