Starfleet Design Bureau

The Thunderchild worked great, but was also demonstrative of how incredibly important Shield technology is!
 
Bluntly, it's worth noting that the canonical Earth-Romulan War - insofar as the shows are concerned - was considerably less actively genocidal in tone, based on my knowledge. The Romulans of canon wanted to conquer Earth and the Coalition of Planets, or at least install puppet governments - the Romulans of this quest were planning to wipe out Earth's entire goddamn biosphere with their thunder run on Earth.
I agree with this. From the Enterprise TV series it seems like the Romulans were really paranoid about the formation of the Coalition of Planets. Paranoid and thinking the coalition would conquer them, because they project the paranoia and wanted to conquer the coalition first. They wanted the Andorians/Vulcans/Tellarite to fight each other and Earth was a small fry. With the in-fighting, Vulcan would became weak enough the Romulans could "reunite" with them. The holographic disguise drone was all about causing them to in-fight each other. Eventually the in-fighting would also lead to conquering the Coalition of Planets.

But Archer and Earth managed to unify them together to form a power block which eventually became the Federation.

In quest, it seems like the Romulans realized the the unifying effect of Earth and decided to eliminate Earth first and thinking they could turn the Coalition against each other later. It kind of makes sense that United Earth had the unifying effect in canon. UE had none of the animosity or history the other had with each other. And despite the Vulcans helping UE, Archer's undiplomatic distrust of Vulcans likely showed Shran (and the Andorians) that UE wasn't a puppet.
 
In quest, it seems like the Romulans realized the the unifying effect of Earth and decided to eliminate Earth first and thinking they could turn the Coalition against each other later. It kind of makes sense that United Earth had the unifying effect in canon. UE had none of the animosity or history the other had with each other. And despite the Vulcans helping UE, Archer's undiplomatic distrust of Vulcans likely showed Shran (and the Andorians) that UE wasn't a puppet.
That's about my take on things - without the Xindi forcing Earth to focus on other threats and spend less time conducting diplomacy and exploration, the Coalition of Planets was coming together even faster than in canon. This, in turn meant that Romulus was potentially looking less and less at a divided and warring set of separate powers to consume piecemeal, but a unified power bloc that could potentially match or exceed Romulus in capability as time went on. This, of course, not being helped by United Earth's rapidly growing industry, and the strategic speed advantage that most Coalition powers possess.
 
Observations:
Someone give an order of merit and a pay raise to the engineers aboard Thunderchild, for apparently managing to invent the replicator and then build one out of smashed-up ship parts (if not rocks). That is Yorktown-tier damage control right there.

How many Endeavours does that make now? And did Atlantis get commandeered by Section 31? It would explain its absence from the narrative.
 
Do note, it's not that they can't go fast.

It's that they can't Go Fast and have Cloaks. The tech and industrial disparity isn't so great that they could expect to win a slugfest, so they just decide to go with the "The First Strike is always ours" guarantee.

It's just that... Frankly, they gambled on just Winning in their opening move, and went maximum warcrime to get it. When that failed, they found themselves in a doctrinal rough spot, where they're not built for a stand up fight but that stand up fight is coming for them anyway. They can still make solid victories thanks to commerce raiding and other surprise attacks, but commerce raiding alone isn't enough to win a war--as was discovered back in the Atlantic Theatre of WW2.

At the end of the day, the best forged mail and sharpest of swords only goes so far against the half-giant with a club. I like how we're leaning into the "UE is really good at large scale shipbuilding" as our "Thing we bring to the table that's unique to us" Especially since it's more-or-less canon anyway but downplayed.
 
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Do note, it's not that they can't go fast.

It's that they can't Go Fast and have Cloaks. The tech and industrial disparity isn't so great that they could expect to win a slugfest, so they just decide to go with the "The First Strike is always ours" guarantee.

It's just that... Frankly, they gambled on just Winning in their opening move, and went maximum warcrime to get it. When that failed, they found themselves in a doctrinal rough spot, where they're not built for a stand up fight but that stand up fight is coming for them anyway. They can still make solid victories thanks to commerce raiding and other surprise attacks, but commerce raiding alone isn't enough to win a war--as was discovered back in the Atlantic Theatre of WW2.

At the end of the day, the best forged mail and sharpest of swords only goes so far against the half-giant with a club. I like how we're leaning into the "UE is really good at large scale shipbuilding" as our "Thing we bring to the table that's unique to us" Especially since it's more-or-less canon anyway but downplayed.
the Enterprise also confirmed that the feared Romulan cloaking device was incompatible with the antimatter-based warp engines used during the attack on Earth. In fact the majority of the Romulan fleet was still using Warp 3 as its maximum cruise, while the cloaked ships were using an experimental new power system.
They don't go fast even without cloak. The majority of their fleet is no faster than Block 1 Stingray and Zheng He class vessels. The uncloaked vessels that tried to genocide earth were slower than our fleet (and uncloaked) which is why we were able to intercept them.
 
Observations:
Someone give an order of merit and a pay raise to the engineers aboard Thunderchild, for apparently managing to invent the replicator and then build one out of smashed-up ship parts (if not rocks). That is Yorktown-tier damage control right there.

How many Endeavours does that make now? And did Atlantis get commandeered by Section 31? It would explain its absence from the narrative.
We gave the NX class extra engineering and had three on hand post battle, I am fairly sure there was a lot of work down from stores and equipment from those three.


Also the NX class earned its keep again, first the Enterprise was able to scout out and find Romulan positions and get more info on the cloak and then in this battle after dealing with their station (despite being a gen behind on torpedoes and energy weapons) were able to save the thunderchild.

For our next ship I would like to know if the tech sharing that was talked about will happen and if that means we get shields or not because that makes a big difference in design and class. Because if we get shields a replacement to the stingrays with the new torpedoes would be deadly.
 
one of the things we should try to get from the romulans is the research they are doing on cloaking tech so that we could try and make sensors that can detect cloaked ships
 
I think we've only engaged the Romulan's equivalent of frigates or light cruisers, but they've given us quite a lot of trouble due to advanced technologies. I'm not sure we've seen their heavier naval assets. Even their outposts are probably weaker, expeditionary outposts.

From ENT, the NX classes are United Earth's cruiser or heavy cruiser, but the Vulcan's heavy cruisers absolutely outmatched UE's. There were quite a few times in canon the NX had to run to a Vulcan ship for help.

I suspect that United Earth's ships are at least 1 grade lower compared to the local powers. So our BB Thunderchild is the equivalent to the Andorian/Romulan/Vulcan/Tellarite's regular cruiser or heavy cruiser. The technological difference hurts, though the photonic torpedoes helps to make up the difference.
 
Personally, I think that if our next design is during the war it should be a replacement for the I-class and if it's post-war it should be a replacement to the Zheng He-Class.
 
The Thunderchild was able to lead the charge with Andorian battlecruisers, so maybe it counts as such in terms of general galactic ship classification?
 
Hats off to the Romulans for literally fucking up so bad and galvinizing all three hesitant allied nations into fully committing to the war instead of focusing on Earth! :V
 
The Thunderchild was able to lead the charge with Andorian battlecruisers, so maybe it counts as such in terms of general galactic ship classification?
In real life, ship classification is pretty unreliable. Classification is done by country governments and countries play political games with classification so much. One country's destroyer may weigh the same amount as another country's cruisers.

The classification can be anything United Earth wants to be.
 
From ENT, the NX classes are United Earth's cruiser or heavy cruiser, but the Vulcan's heavy cruisers absolutely outmatched UE's. There were quite a few times in canon the NX had to run to a Vulcan ship for help.

I suspect that United Earth's ships are at least 1 grade lower compared to the local powers. So our BB Thunderchild is the equivalent to the Andorian/Romulan/Vulcan/Tellarite's regular cruiser or heavy cruiser. The technological difference hurts, though the photonic torpedoes helps to make up the difference.
Our NX was built quite a bit heavier than canon NX, though with not much better tech. Tech in particular is Vulcan's major advantage as a power, and they notably surpass their Rihannsu cousins in warp tech (read: both speed and operational range) especially. Earth ships also outspeed and outrange typical Romulan ships, it seems - this is an advantage of antimatter warp drives over other types.

I agree that we had better make up our minds sooner rather than later about whether our NXs count as generic or as heavy cruisers within the Earth fleet system (comparisons to near-peer powers are secondary). It would resolve much of the uncertainty about whether to design a light or heavy cruiser next -- if the NX is heavy, and it doesn't need replacing (which it doesn't, it performs just fine), then we don't need to design a heavy cruiser. If the NX isn't heavy, we might benefit from a heavy cruiser design.
 
We're currently spitballing what the next quest decision will be. There hasn't been anything from Sayle yet.
 
In real life, ship classification is pretty unreliable. Classification is done by country governments and countries play political games with classification so much. One country's destroyer may weigh the same amount as another country's cruisers.

The classification can be anything United Earth wants to be.
True. I meant more in the sense of, internationally speaking, what would other nations classify something like the Thunderchild-class as, thinking back to how the NX, though listed by the UE as an explorer-type, most everyone else considers it a heavy cruiser equivalent.
 
I do think something a little heavier than the Stingray, but not quite NX level is best for out next ship.

Go all in on maneuver.

I kind of want to make the equivalent of a torpedo destroyer.
Especially if we can integrate shields. If Photonic Torpedoes can be fired at warp, then faster-at-warp United Earth ships should be able to mercilessly boom-and-zoom on uncloaked varieties of Warbirds and facilities.

Even if they can't warp fire, or don't get shields, cheaply bringing photonic torpedoes on target quickly is a ship that will bust warbirds quickly.
 
The NXs performed well, with Enterprise doing some scouting that gave us some critical info about the Romulan military, and when the Battle of Denobula happened, Thunderchild anchored the battle line, dished out damage that destroyed a space station, two Warbirds and helped kill two more, all the while being battered (and surviving said beating) by the enemy.

The Stingrays, OTOH, while they did their job in escorting the Thunderchild, were really outclassed by the Romulan Warbirds, so I agree to the sentiment that we need a replacement for the Stingray.

It can be either an Arrowhead or Half-Saucer, to finally give us a proper FG or DD.
 
The NXs performed well, with Enterprise doing some scouting that gave us some critical info about the Romulan military, and when the Battle of Denobula happened, Thunderchild anchored the battle line, dished out damage that destroyed a space station, two Warbirds and helped kill two more, all the while being battered (and surviving) by the enemy.

The Stingrays, OTOH, while they did their job in escorting the Thunderchild, were really outclassed by the Romulan Warbirds, so I agree to the sentiment that we need a replacement for the Stingray.

It can be either an Arrowhead or Half-Saucer, to finally give us a proper FG or DD.
Hmm, hmm, i see your points. Time to scrap the Stingrays for better ships, a shame too, ah well, c'est la vie~
 
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