Starfleet Design Bureau

So humanity has a much larger industrial cap than the others? I assumed that since the others have been sailing the stars longer, theyd have a much larger established industrial base.

More the willpower in general to do so.

Theory being that the other star-nations would be a bit leary to wanting to host foreign intelligence/designers or put their eggs in the Federation basket, so Humanity steps forward to make the example.
 
Omake: Battle of Agaron Prime (2158) [1]
Reflections, in All Their Forms

Agaron Prime, Antares Sector, Late 2158


Flag Captain Fuku Sukuda of the UES Thunderchild was a well-read man.

Any crewmember or officer of the ship that spent any great amount of time onboard both knew that quite well and thought that it had little bearing on their assignments. Especially now. Here, as 2158, in Earth time at least, threatened to tip over into 2159, they found themselves at a research station and civilian outpost keeping watch as what the Andorian ambassador was quick to classify as 'important weapons data', alongside nearly 8,000 scientists and civilians, was evacuated from the single habitable planet in the system.

All in all, the small task fleet under their command was enjoying the brief respite in combat operations. Warspite, their only sister vessel at the moment, was raising quite the furor elsewhere with her own task fleet, keeping the Romulan fleets busy while they worked. Even still, Captain Sukuda sat in the command chair on the bridge, watching out the viewscreen as the civilian ships slowly began to float away from Agaron 4. He didn't need to look back to know that Rear Admiral Afolayan, the woman in charge of the fleet, was at his shoulder.

Finally, the silence broke. "Captain!" Lieutenant Nelson said as he looked back from his tactical station. "Reading a wolfpack of signatures, 9 in all, coming in from the shadow of Agaron 2."

The wolfpacks had been growing larger since the battle of Denobula. But that didn't matter. They had them outnumbered by 5 ships. "Red alert, all power to combat systems," Sukuda said firmly. "All ahead full."

Afolayan nodded. "Contact the Bentfin and the Spinetail, and tell them to run security for the refugee fleet."

The fleet sprang into action, a well-maintained instrument oiled and tuned to the tempo of battle as they swept out toward their enemies. But even such grand action was mostly undertaken in silence, their intercept course making contact with the enemy fleet halfway between Agaron 4 and Agaron 1. The wolfpack's signatures glided ever closer. Strange, that they'd decloaked this far out.

"They're in torpedo range, sir," Nelson said.

"Full barrage on the lead warbird, then pairs on any vulnerable enemies that come up on the fleet tac-net on my mark," Sukuda replied, watching the sensor panel on his chair intently as the seconds ticked by, then green dots resolved on the barren backdrop of Agaron 1. "Fire!"

The buzzing, blaring hum of the photonic torpedoes preceded their brilliant, scintillating orange forms lancing out, accompanied seconds later by their dimmer atomic cousins that glowed a pale white. The warbirds, now almost discernable, began to swoop away in pairs and trios. The atomic torpedoes launched by the other ships began to struggle in their tracking patterns, but the photonics were a more dogged sort, slamming into the starboard stern of their target warbird, two hits on its hull sending a winged nacelle shearing away as it tumbled helplessly towards them.

Then they came into gun range, the stars crossed with ribbons of orange and green as NXs, Stingrays, and warbirds began to engage in the deadly dance of the duel, turning about as polarized hulls clashed with shielded targets. And at the center of it all was Thunderchild, a fortress of energized metal and hyperfocused fire, boring through the shields of the warbirds and offering her cohort opportunities to strike and triumph, one warbird after another soon enough going up in flames as their reactors quenched and exploded.

She still took her licks, of course, warbirds pelting her with fire as best they could. Four topside pulsed phase cannons had been knocked out by the time they halved the fleet, along with three bottom-mounted cannons and an aft torpedo tube.

"Captain!" Sukuda's communications officer called, breaking him from the focus of his task. "The Bentfin is reading four more warbirds decloaking in front of the refugee fleet!"

Sukuda's eyes flashed down to his pannel, and his heart went cold as he saw the truth of it. Four ships, arrayed in a line in front of the fleet and the two Stingrays, waiting patiently for the helpless fleet to reach them. But they just... waited where they were. No engagement, no first strike, everything flying in the face of Romulan combat doctrine as Starfleet knew it.

'They want them afraid before they die.' Sukuda realized as his jaw clenched. 'They want to show how powerful they are to them.'

He looked up at the battle that raged around him. "What's the status of the fleet here?" he asked Nelson.

Nelson spared a glance down at his console. "The Munk's Pygmy and the Sicklefin have taken heavy damage and are peeling off. The Atlantis and the Buran are down a few phase cannons and a torpedo launcher. Otherwise, these last five ships shouldn't be much of a problem."

Sukuda nodded as he looked up at Afolayan. "Ma'am, I'm about to turn this ship around. Shall I inform Captain Koenig?"

"Don't worry about it," Afolayan replied, striding over to the comms station. "Dream Chaser, this is Fleet Command. Thunderchild is breaking off to assist the refugee fleet. Can we leave this in your hands?"

"We'll mop things up here, Admiral." Captain Koenig replied. "Give them hell."

Afolayan nodded, and Sukuda wasted no time. "Bring us about, Ensign, full speed ahead! Inform the Bentfin and the Spinetail we're on our way and tell them to prepare to attack the furthest left warbird on our signal. On my mark, launch a full spread of torpedoes at that target. We'll engage the remaining three."

They worked as he spoke, the ship making the best headway it could toward the fleet in distress, the Romulan screen slowly creeping closer. Finally, as time seemed to stretch its seconds into hours, they were within range. "Torpedo barrage, fire! Helm, adjust heading to face the center of our three ships and begin long-range fires."

The torpedoes flashed away again, slicing through the void and over the heads of the refugee vessels and the Stingrays to slam into the warbird, its shields flashing as they failed, the final torpedo slamming into the hull as it began to maneuver away. The Bentfin and Spinetail leaped into action, peeling away from the head of the fleet to chase their newly vulnerable prey.

The remaining warbirds, however, wasted no time focusing on the Thunderchild, disruptor beams lancing across the vessel's thick-skinned hull as it fired torpedoes and phase cannons at the terrorizing vessels. The battleship wasn't suited fully for this sort of direct, driving attack, and the ship rocked from the impacts as sections of hull polarization faltered and failed. Finally, however, a warbird went up in a brilliant explosion, a twin of the one the two Stingrays had doggedly worn down.

Their focus turned to another warbird, their phase cannons piercing through its shields and scoring one nacelle, then another, the warbird drifting slowly to a stop in front of them, its top side facing them even as it continued to fire.

Then, several disruptor beams scored the front of the hull, the impact of them nearly sending Sukuda and the rest of the bridge out of their chairs. "Damage report!" he shouted.

"Power to the weapons is fluctuating, sir!" Nelson said, panic edging into his voice. "We're down to one forward torpedo tube functioning, and repair teams are being dispatched to torpedo tube 3."

The guns of the ship were silent, the hull pounded on again and again by the warbirds. They needed to do... something.

Then, Sukuda looked at the drifting warbird before them, and an idea clicked into place in his mind.

"Ensign," he told the helmsman, "all ahead full through that drifting warbird."

The ensign, a fresh-faced young man named Quinn, looked at him like he'd gone mad. And likely, he might have. "You want to ram them, sir?"

"We don't have many other options. Do it!" Sukuda stabbed the ship-wide comms button. "All hands, evacuate from the port side and brace for impact!"

He hoped, as he felt them getting up to speed, that his warning had come soon enough, the warbird growing larger and larger in the viewscreen as it fired more and more. Then... impact.

They got lucky enough to clip the bow of the ship, the back of it flipping down on them like a coin landing on pavement before it bounced up off them, debris from both ships mixing as it trailed the now thoroughly ruined warbird. The blow sent most of the bridge, and most likely most of the warship, sprawling on the deck. For long moments, it was still. Surprisingly silent, as if their last warbird was simply aghast at the desperate maneuver.

Then, Sukuda lifted himself off the floor. "Power to the starboard weapons as quickly as possible, then get a firing solution on that last warbird. Quickly!"

The rest of the bridge crew struggled back into their seats, Nelson's fingers flying over the console as he tried desperately to make his captain's orders come to pass. The warbird began finally to fire on them again, yet more of the hull scored by disruptor fire. Then, finally, the starboard weapons that remained roared to life, phase beams lancing out to the warbird as a pair of torpedoes streaked from the remaining tubes toward it. After long, almost agonizing moments, the final warbird detonated.

Captain Sukuda slouched slightly in his chair as he sighed heavily. "Ensign Colms, what's the status of the fleet?" he asked his comms officer.

She was silent for a moment. "The rest of the warbirds have been destroyed, sir. The fleet's returning to us." she paused again. "The Andorian fleet sends their thanks for ensuring their escape."

"Good," Afolayan said, looking down at Sukuda with a critical eye. "Fuku, speaking frankly, I ought to strip you of command for putting your ship at risk like that."

"You'd have every right to, Mosi," Sukuda replied. "That ram was risky. Too risky. But if I hadn't done something..."

He paused, then chuckled softly. "Well, Thunderchild wouldn't have lived up to her name. Or maybe she would have. Who's to say?"

Afolayan sighed quietly. "Well, if nothing else, the civilians are safe." she paused. "I wonder what Wells would think of that."

"I think he'd be impressed his ironclad made it out this time," Sukuda said with a slight grin as they limped back to the task fleet.

A/N: My Thunderchild omake, as promised.
 
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lmao, it's already a thing. What do you think the NX-class explorer is?

You can keep hyping up dedicated warships all you want, but we know they don't work as well as multi-role generalists do for Starfleet.
:(You did not need to remind me. Alo I want dedicated warships whose only role is being a warship. Have multi role explores but keep the dedicated warships for internal patrol/detterents sake. (How many stupid problems could have been stooped migitated by a fleet of actual warships: Manned by trained personel that did not hink weaponry and warfare are somehow outdated concepts?)
Are you under the impression the name of the quest is Starfleet High Command? Because it's not, it's Starfleet Design Bureau. The quest is about designing starships, not deciding politics.
And us not controlling High Command or the Prime Minister/President change the simple reality of the situation why? If North Korea Nukes the shit out of South Korea and Invades NO one is going to let that country exist in the future. (Either it vanishes in Nucear retaliation or gets conquered the hard way. But no one would accept a return of the status quo ante bellum.)

Same aplies to the romulans they started out at Nazi level(To be exactly clear the romulans believe they are a supperior species to everyone else. They conquer and then use other races for slave labor. And Now they have attempted a Genocde.)

Not destroying the Star Empire is again betting that they will honor any treaty instead of using the breathing room gained to prepare for Genocide war 2.0 with better warbirds and more WMDs.
 
:(You did not need to remind me. Alo I want dedicated warships whose only role is being a warship. Have multi role explores but keep the dedicated warships for internal patrol/detterents sake. (How many stupid problems could have been stooped migitated by a fleet of actual warships: Manned by trained personel that did not hink weaponry and warfare are somehow outdated concepts?)

Not many. Or:

We have found the Mirror Universe infiltrator.
 
:(You did not need to remind me. Alo I want dedicated warships whose only role is being a warship. Have multi role explores but keep the dedicated warships for internal patrol/detterents sake. (How many stupid problems could have been stooped migitated by a fleet of actual warships: Manned by trained personel that did not hink weaponry and warfare are somehow outdated concepts?)
...maybe a few issues with the Cardassians? Maybe? That's pretty much it. Star Fleet vessels have never really lacked for teeth-kicking ability against anyone except the Borg and to a lesser extent the Dominion, neither of which would have been scared off or stopped by a pre-existing militarized Star Fleet.

Seriously, how many times has an Enterprise gone up against two or even three hostile ships at once and come out on top? To quote Picard, anyone who thinks Federation ships can't fight may test that assumption at their convenience.

Prior to the Borg, the UFP was the dominant military power in the Alpha Quadrant, and it was only a competition at all because the UFP allowed it to be.

The Federation doesn't build dedicated warships, it builds better ships.
 
(How many stupid problems could have been stooped migitated by a fleet of actual warships: Manned by trained personel that did not hink weaponry and warfare are somehow outdated concepts?)

The main problem of canon UFP Starfleet was the politicos in charge deciding that small ships were uncool and refusing to actually build new designs after they found one that worked, which left the Federation with masses of ageing lighter ships and a scatter shot handful of hilariously expensive Dog & Pony Explorers in insufficient numbers to make up for the neglect.
 
The main problem of canon UFP Starfleet was the politicos in charge deciding that small ships were uncool and refusing to actually build new designs after they found one that worked, which left the Federation with masses of ageing lighter ships and a scatter shot handful of hilariously expensive Dog & Pony Explorers in insufficient numbers to make up for the neglect.

Most of the explorers are actually pretty good at their role. If we are to discuss the problems with canon Starfleet, it's basically all OOC driven.

There has to be a reason to send the Hero Ship. Starfleet can't be seen to have massive fleets, because why aren't they sent more often?

(PIC S1's massive fleet caused issues for people who thought it was too many, and I was sitting there mentally calculating how much space Starfleet had to cover and staring at them!)

The romanticism of the small fleet in the fanon lead to Starfleet not seeming to have large fleets. In practice, you should be able to assume there's a lot more we don't see. (Lower Decks operates a lot on this premise.)
 
There's a fundamental issue with this single-role idea in the Star Trek universe, at least if the civilization we want to be is the Federation, and not your average empire in the setting, and that issue has to do with the dedicated long-range explorer you're talking about. What do you need in a dedicated long range explorer? You need, first of all, sensors and science labs, to investigate strange new worlds. Second of all, resources to do long-range exploration, so engineering supplies, fuel, and so on. Third, you have to have good engines, so that you can actually do your exploring. Fourth, a long-range explorer that you want to come back home needs to have enough weapons and defenses to deal with your average "threat vessel" or bizarre hostile cosmozoan. What does that leave you with?

It doesn't leave you with an Oberth, that's a ship for doing long-term research around a known planet or star, or responding to various scientific inquiries. It leaves you instead with a Constitution, a Galaxy, an Intrepid, the very multirole explorers that Starfleet in fact builds. Starfleet's ships are an entirely logical response to the doctrinal demands of the society that forms the United Federation of Planets, and I for one quite like a society more interested in remarkably well-armed explorers than a fleet made first and foremost of battleships.
To continue with the idea that any good long-range explorer is going to be multi-role with enough tactical ability to handle anything they expect to encounter without support, the very existence and production of those multi-role ships could add another reason to why Starfleet doesn't really build big dedicated combat ships.

Yes, a monopurpose warship would get much more bang per resource than a multipurpose ship. But that does not mean Starfleet wouldn't have to spend other things like the time needed to produce the warship design, or the resources needed to set up the production lines for a new class. And when you are looking at all of that while holding a perfectly good set of designs in your other hand for a rather well armed and protected heavy cruiser/capital ship with production lines either already accounted for or up and running, I imagine the idea of just ordering another run of those instead becomes a bit more tempting. The fact that it'll give you a few well protected science ships hanging around to poke at any negative space wedgies popping up too close for comfort and make sure they aren't going to hurt anyone is icing on the cake.
 
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I also question the idea that dedicated ships are industrially cheaper in practice.

Think of it, you need to build a dedicated science ship then war ship then engineering ship to do each task for 3 ships in total, or for the same cost you could make 2 multi-role ships and throw both at any single problem.
 
The Coalition has the Romulans beet on speed by a rather large margin. It is kind of hard to ambush ships that are more than twice your speed.(Not impossible mind you but i would not stick my warplanning on that)

We do not need to occupy romulan planets. Once we take a system destroying all Space/ground shipyards and advanced Industrial sites is absolutl enough. What can the people/Armies on the ground do to spaceships in orbit? Shake a fist in anger?(if you want to go a step further you can target all millitary bases/formation as well and then demand surrender.)

Then it is just a question of having enough starships, early warning sensors; and defenses in a system to stop inventable romulan counterpushes.(Also without the industry said systems are now a drain on romulan reources indstead of a boon.) This would require a slow campaign of attacking, destroying industry, fortivying, defending and then doing the same again. But in the end the romulans would be beaten(yes there would be losses but in the end no romulan star empire ready and waiting for round two.)
Taking the system is also not a realistic prospect.

It took the Romulans a year to get to Earth, and that was using their fastest ships. Our military vessels can match that speed, but our cargo tenders will not be using cutting edge military drives.
If they do warp 3, we can be happy. 2.5 is a more likely figure.

Thst means we'd be fighting the Romulans at the end of a 2 year long supply line, with only a few dozen ships to cover it.

Best case, we can pull of a drive by shooting of some stations, but anything more will see the fleet attrited and destroyed in detail by cloaked raiders.
 
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Hoh boy... lotta stuff said while I was asleep. Had a heart attack when I saw 110 alerts until I realised it was just people reaction bombing. Frankly Imma just wait until @Sayle is back as I don't wanna get into another argument.
 
Ok, lets look at the numbers here.

Thunderchild
stingray X 8
VS
Romulan Warbirds X12
Romulan Outpost.

reading through the after action report, it seems like the Thunderchild ate the entire fire of the enemy fleet for the first two rounds, including the alpha strike that seemed to leave a hole in its firing arc. During this it killed the outpost and quite a few warbirds, I think we got good value for money on our big girl. If we can refit them with shields they are going to be monsters. We also need to get photonics on as much of the fleet as we can, those things are great.
 
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Also I wish to kill multirole crap before it becomes thing in quest. If people want a exploration ship lets design a dedicated long range explorer.
"Multirole crap" AKA Starfleet's greatest strength.

Instead of having a small number of military ships in peacetime along with a bunch of specialised but lightly protected science/exploration/etc ships starfleet has a larger number of ships that can immediately be pivoted to military duties that they are actually still pretty darn good at.

Having every ship able to fight decently means that your peacetime fleet isn't weak and you can respond to surprise attacks far better
 
Ok, lets look at the numbers here.

Thunderchild
stingray X 8
VS
Romulan Warbirds X12
Romulan Outpost.

reading through the after action report, it seems like the Thunderchild ate the entire fire of the enemy fleet for the first two rounds, including the alpha strike that seemed to leave a hole in its firing arc. During this it killed the outpost and quite a few warbirds, I think we got good value for money on our big girl. If we can refit them with shields they are going to be monsters. We also need to get photonics on as much of the fleet as we can, those things are great.
Yeah put that way, the enemy outmassed our flotilla by a LOT.
 
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