Funnily enough, assuming we maintain the same firing arcs as we presently do we'd only need 3 dorsal and 3 ventral phasers to equal the 225° the Excelsior's 5 dorsal and 5 provide (on their respective sides).
eah the whole "here's how to make multi-phaser fire feasible" kind of misses the point that I don't want there to be multi-phaser fire because then you stop building ships with the same rules that Starfleet uses to build ships. The Excelsior's saucer phasers, for example, are perfectly spaced for 45 degree firing arcs with one bank covering each.
Just as a question but what exactly is wrong from going away from canon build doctrine? (I had high hopes we could keep advancing phasers until pulse phasers and beam phasers split off so we could make ships with primary, secondary, and missile arament. AND Ignore the Phaser stripe silly ness.)
Just as a question but what exactly is wrong from going away from canon build doctrine? (I had high hopes we could keep advancing phasers until pulse phasers and beam phasers split off so we could make ships with primary, secondary, and missile arament. AND Ignore the Phaser stripe silly ness.)
Just as a question but what exactly is wrong from going away from canon build doctrine? (I had high hopes we could keep advancing phasers until pulse phasers and beam phasers split off so we could make ships with primary, secondary, and missile arament. AND Ignore the Phaser stripe silly ness.)
Not the GM but this is a Starfleet design quest, if we diverge too greatly from what makes Starfleet ships Starfleet ships (see 32nd century DIS ships, and most of their 23rd century ones being era inappropriate) then why bother running a Starfleet design quest and not one of the many generic ones that popped up inspired by this/its predecessor?
Phaser strips are an integral part of the design language for the vast majority of all Starfleet ships we ever see, across the largest single era we ever see.
This doesn't matter for the fluff/Watsonian reasoning behind the limit, which is that the maximum peak load of the standard electro-plasma system that serves as power distribution can only accommodate two phaser banks after all the other things that it is also powering---in short, the wires can't take the neccessary load without melting (read: exploding, because EPS).
This is why all those options are focused on the power distribution, and can be boiled down to "use better wires (cost: ALL the money)", "Put a separate wire in for each bank (cost: some money, complicating the plumbing)" and "just stick the power supply right next to the phaser so you don't have to transfer the energy more than a couple of feet (Cost: said power supply takes floor space)"
In the Watsonian context, decreasing the refire rate (not that it is especially slow, mind) doesn't really help it fire lots of phasers at once (and would require fiddling with phaser operating mechanics which I was deliberately avoiding.)
Yeah the whole "here's how to make multi-phaser fire feasible" kind of misses the point that I don't want there to be multi-phaser fire because then you stop building ships with the same rules that Starfleet uses to build ships. The Excelsior's saucer phasers, for example, are perfectly spaced for 45 degree firing arcs with one bank covering each.
I'm happy with a system that creates a power scale between smaller and larger ships, rather than the only difference being how easy it is for them to engage ships surrounding them.
... except that we aren't doing that, because the two phaser thing is solely a TV Show Budget limitation - the Constitution has, in quest context from its performance on screen, at least eight separate phaser banks- four on the ventral surface of the saucer and four on the dorsal surface. but with the current design limits we would never build a ship that way- it would be a gigantic waste of money because only a quarter of the things could be used at any given time.
We see this principle clearly when shows with higher animation budgets and movies come in; with vessels clearly firing left, right and center. We see this in the novels, the radio plays, and the comics, which don't have animation budgets to worry about. we see it in the various background materiels, which never once indicate that ships have any issue powering as many phasers as they want.
I'm incredibly confused about why you seem to think multiple phasers will somehow make us stop designing ships in the same manner as Starfleet. Starfleet ships are frequently slathered in phasers, far more than we are even typically willing to pay for, because of their status as primary weapons.
Hells, if you watch the original series they're not even consistent about where the phasers even are across different firing sequence animations until the remastered version! (obviously this is because at the time none of the showrunners actually cared, but still.)
Half the reason I keep on about this is because it's extremely hard to justify more than tiny numbers of phaser banks in the budget when even mounting so much as four of them means that half are going to be dead weight at any given moment. It's also shoved Phasers into second place to torpedoes, especially the rapids (once we're not eating the prototype cost anyway), we're getting dangerously close to being in the "why do we even have these" space where we slap on the bare minimum for utility reasons but otherwise focus on "what gets us the most torpedoes" which is a little farther from the Starfleet design ethos than "a few more phaser banks than OTL was willing to pay for."
This doesn't matter for the fluff/Watsonian reasoning behind the limit, which is that the maximum peak load of the standard electro-plasma system that serves as power distribution can only accommodate two phaser banks after all the other things that it is also powering---in short, the wires can't take the neccessary load without melting (read: exploding, because EPS).
This is why all those options are focused on the power distribution, and can be boiled down to "use better wires (cost: ALL the money)", "Put a separate wire in for each bank (cost: some money, complicating the plumbing)" and "just stick the power supply right next to the phaser so you don't have to transfer the energy more than a couple of feet (Cost: said power supply takes floor space)"
You could just.. stop. When the QM says they don't want to do something, arguing with them rarely leads to better outcomes. Just because you can twist a setting into accepting things does not mean you should.
When the QM is more or less telling you to stop you should stop and not double down on what you're doing. You are doing nothing but creating aggravation here, between not only yourself and other quest participants but likely also yourself and the QM.
This doesn't matter for the fluff/Watsonian reasoning behind the limit, which is that the maximum peak load of the standard electro-plasma system that serves as power distribution can only accommodate two phaser banks after all the other things that it is also powering---in short, the wires can't take the neccessary load without melting (read: exploding, because EPS).
This is why all those options are focused on the power distribution, and can be boiled down to "use better wires (cost: ALL the money)", "Put a separate wire in for each bank (cost: some money, complicating the plumbing)" and "just stick the power supply right next to the phaser so you don't have to transfer the energy more than a couple of feet (Cost: said power supply takes floor space)"
In the Watsonian context, decreasing the refire rate (not that it is especially slow, mind) doesn't really help it fire lots of phasers at once (and would require fiddling with phaser operating mechanics which I was deliberately avoiding.)
... except that we aren't doing that, because the two phaser thing is solely a TV Show Budget limitation - the Constitution has, in quest context from its performance on screen, at least eight separate phaser banks- four on the ventral surface of the saucer and four on the dorsal surface. but with the current design limits we would never build a ship that way- it would be a gigantic waste of money because only a quarter of the things could be used at any given time.
We see this principle clearly when shows with higher animation budgets and movies come in; with vessels clearly firing left, right and center. We see this in the novels, the radio plays, and the comics, which don't have animation budgets to worry about. we see it in the various background materiels, which never once indicate that ships have any issue powering as many phasers as they want.
I'm incredibly confused about why you seem to think multiple phasers will somehow make us stop designing ships in the same manner as Starfleet. Starfleet ships are frequently slathered in phasers, far more than we are even typically willing to pay for, because of their status as primary weapons.
Hells, if you watch the original series they're not even consistent about where the phasers even are across different firing sequence animations until the remastered version! (obviously this is because at the time none of the showrunners actually cared, but still.)
Half the reason I keep on about this is because it's extremely hard to justify more than tiny numbers of phaser banks in the budget when even mounting so much as four of them means that half are going to be dead weight at any given moment. It's also shoved Phasers into second place to torpedoes, especially the rapids (once we're not eating the prototype cost anyway), we're getting dangerously close to being in the "why do we even have these" space where we slap on the bare minimum for utility reasons but otherwise focus on "what gets us the most torpedoes" which is a little farther from the Starfleet design ethos than "a few more phaser banks than OTL was willing to pay for."
thread reopened
I am reopening this thread after concluding the period of review.
As an aside, folks, I know that fandom and beloved cultural touchstones can be topics of considerable emotional resonance and personal investment but as I open the thread back up I would like to remind people to remain civil and respectful of one another and the discussion.
Thank you
Robert April appeared in a shimmer of orange-yellow light as the transporter reassembled his atoms aboard the transporter pad of his new command, the four bands of gold on his uniform sleeves still adding just a hint of unfamiliar weight to the fabric - a reminder, he thought, of the burdens of leadership. Odd that his Commander's stripes never felt half as heavy.
As he stepped off the pad his second-in-command was there to greet him, a welcoming smile on the man's face. April couldn't help but feel himself reciprocating, reaching out to happily take the man's hand.
"Chris," April greeted him warmly. "It's damn good to see you again. When they told me you were the current first officer? Well, I didn't need much of a look at the pool of potential replacements."
Christopher Pike chuckled. "I dread to think what the rest of the list looked like. I think I heard cheers from the crew when they announced 'Fair Fight Robert' was going to be our new captain."
"I was just in the right place at the right time," April demurred, tilting his head towards the door. "Walk with me?"
"That's the job," Pike agreed, the two men releasing the handshake and moving out into the corridor. "Here to get a look at the old girl? We're still two days out from the repairs finishing, but you're more than welcome."
"Unfortunately no," April replied, stopping just short of the turbolift and facing his first officer. "Last report was that the last item on the list was replacing the bow hull plates fractured during the collision?"
"Ventral engineering section and the edge of the deflector shroud as well," Pike clarified. "The command section of the D7 tumbled and grazed the secondary hull."
"And that crazy bit of flying was what got Captain Thy'lek to retire?" April marvelled. "It certainly worked."
"The captain felt that he shouldn't have had to resort to it in the first place if he was on the ball," Pike explained sympathetically. "I disagree but…well, once an andorian makes up their mind about something it's a hell of a fight to change it. Didn't help he was already due to retire just before the war started."
"Shame." April remarked before pivoting to a new subject. "Look, Chris, I know this is short notice. Have you heard of Tarsus IV?"
"Small colony," Pike replied. "One of the flag-planting initiatives. No useful resources, but habitable and pleasant enough. I read something about Admiral Sato retiring there so it can't be half-bad. I think about ten thousand people?"
"Closer to fifteen now," April corrected. "It's on the other side of the Federation from the Klingon border so there was some migration going on." He gestured Pike into the turbolift and took hold of the handle. "Bridge." The background began to whirr. "Last night one of our listening posts picked up a weak subspace transmission from Tarsus calling for help. Some sort of fungal outbreak has obliterated their food supply, and they only have enough stored for a couple of weeks."
"If the transmission was so weak it was detected by a listening post, it could have been days since it was sent out," Pike observed, frowning with worry. "Maybe longer."
"Exactly," April agreed. "And we don't know if they factored in rationing. As it stands, thousands of people could only be days away from starving."
"We're not in much of a position to haul supplies," Pike pointed out. "We don't have the facilities."
"No," April concurred. "Starfleet has the Stephenson ten light-years out and a seller willing to provide kilotons of quadrotriticale to alleviate the famine. But with the dogleg to the nearest Pharos and a fully-loaded trip to Tarsus it still leaves five weeks before relief arrives. If the estimates of remaining food were without rationing…"
"The colony could have already starved to death," Pike finished grimly. "What's the plan?"
The turbolift came to a stop and the bridge door hissed open. "First thing is to cancel shore leave and get the crew on board. Send out shuttles for the senior staff if you have to, but anybody who can't get back to the ship in the next four hours is staying behind."
April took a step onto the bridge and inhaled slowly. He'd been on the bridge of an Excalibur before, of course, but it was another thing entirely to be in command rather than first officer. He continued after a moment of quiet appreciation. "We have supplies for a crew of two hundred and fifty for three years. That will feed a colony the size of Tarsus for at least two weeks. More with rationing and our shuttle complement to find other sources of food."
Pike nodded. "If we can get there in time. Tarsus is twenty light-years away. That's three weeks at Warp 7."
"Good thing we won't be going Warp 7," April responded, voice serious. "I intend to be there in two weeks. That means Warp 8 the whole way."
"Not even been here five minutes and already making enemies with the chief engineer?" Pike asked wryly.
"Are you saying she can't do it?" April asked.
"Oh, she'll do it," his first officer assured. "If she can guillotine a Klingon battlecruiser she can handle a little jog. Then jog right back for a warp coil overhaul, but she'll manage."
"I hope you're right," April replied. "Because we won't be slowing down. Four hours, Chris. Try and get as many of the people you need to make this ship run, because she'll be doing a lot of it with lives on the line."
"I'll see to it," Pike agreed. "Welcome aboard the Enterprise, Captain. I think you'll fit in just fine."
The Excalibur was ordered in an initial block of four, constructed in parallel between 2234 and 2236: Excalibur, Enterprise, Curtana, and Durandal. The ships proved to be of major tactical benefit to Starfleet's general roster, being both more heavily shielded than the Newton and substantially more dangerous. After a year-long shakedown that resolved problems with the new torpedo launchers and further streamlined the thruster assemblies a further order of eight ships were made: Tizona, Caladbolg, Joyeuse, Kusanagi, Clarent, Hauteclere, Tyrfing, and Hrunting. All were commissioned in 2239 and entered full service the following year.
The outbreak of open war with the Klingon Empire in the spring of 2240 threw Starfleet on the back foot, and further orders of starships with secondary tactical roles were suspended. Instead in 2241 a further six Excalibur-class vessels were ordered and entered production, those being Dyrnwyn, Damocles, Dainsleif, Gram, Naegling, and Fragarach. The crash-builds saw the ships launch in late 2243 in time for the counteroffensive of early 2244.
After the war the surviving Excalibur-class ships faced an uncertain future. Lacking the facilities to participate in the rebuilding efforts they were assigned to suppressing the surge in piracy caused by the depletion of Starfleet's patrol roster and flying the flag near contested borders with the Tholian Assembly and Gorn Hegemony. They finally entered their second stage of life in the 2250s when a recovered Starfleet turned its attention back to beyond its borders. The Pathfinder Missions were designed to use the Excalibur's range and speed to chart over a hundred light years beyond the boundaries of Federation space.
The Excalibur would become the most common exploration ship in the Starfleet roster for some time, if not the foremost scientific platform. It provided a vital service in identifying lifebearing stars, cataloguing stellar phenomena, and carrying out First Contact with a number of new civilizations. In the era in which the Federation was constantly discovering novel new demonstrations of heretofore-unknown sciences it was the Excalibur that reported the first sightings.
Unfortunately this meant that the Excalibur was the first ship subjected to its discoveries, and this often resulted in serious casualties and total ship losses. The Curtana and Tyrfing were destroyed during the infamous multitronic incident, Dainsleif was digested during the first encounter with massive unicellular lifeforms, the crew of the Damocles were killed by macroscopic parasites, and the Hauteclere faced the ultimate indignity of being used to prop up the Terran Empire for an extra hundred years in the mirror universe.
The high attrition rate suffered by the Excalibur-class during the Pathfinder Missions was a major factor in the codification of the 'explorer' as a specific design brief. The stunning performance of the Enterprise in the course of its duties was considered the result of the spectacular brilliance of its command crew and their ability to accomplish novel solutions with limited resources. Future long-term missions beyond resupply would be traditionally accomplished by ships specifically designed for the task.
Regardless of losses the Excalibur entered its fourth decade with enough hulls to justify a refit which replaced or improved the shields, onboard laboratories, warp coils, phasers, and built out the torpedo systems for heavier Type-4 warheads. The improvement in capabilities and performance kept the ships in service for another three decades before larger vessels and improvements in basic technology made keeping the Excalibur active an increasingly costly proposition in personnel and upkeep.
Only two examples of the class survived the scrapyard, both selected for repair and preservation. Robert April's Joyeuse, which has been restored to its 2240 condition, was initially part of the Andorian Imperial War Museum but later centralised and consolidated with other vessels at the Federation Fleet Museum. The Enterprise-A remained moored at Utopia Planitia after its decommissioning in administrative limbo until it was repaired and the impulse drive reactivated for a ceremonial flypast during the launch of the Enterprise-B. It was subsequently moved to a lunar orbit as an open museum until 2370 saw it moved under warp tow to the Federation Fleet Museum.
Not a bad showing at all id say... Good to see it fulfilled the brief on the war part (even if the overspeccing on tactical* did mean all the 5 dimensional space wedgies did wreck many of them come sciencing time...)
Good to see it fulfilled the brief on the war part (even if the overspeccing on tactical* did mean all the 5 dimensional space wedgies did wreck many of them come sciencing time...)
This is in error I feel. We took both Science Labs and Stellar Cartography. Nothing we didn't take would have really helped the design handle dimensional space wedgies any better than it did.
Not a bad showing at all id say... Good to see it fulfilled the brief on the war part (even if the overspeccing on tactical* did mean all the 5 dimensional space wedgies did wreck many of them come sciencing time...)
Agent Smith: "Do you have any idea how many people I had to silence to make the Admiralty board give these maniacs a limitation on tonnage, only for them to make this monstrosity instead!"
