Starfleet Design Bureau

Something one needs to remember about historical torpedos prior to those which show up ... Somewhere around ww1-ish?: the term origionally referred to any explosive anti-ship weapon, such as/particularly what we now call sea mines.
we do see a few minefields across various properties; the primary issue with space mines however is that, well, there's not exactly a lot of choke points in space, so you typically need ludicrous numbers of them to actually accomplish anything. To the point where you might as well just build an automated torpedo emplacement instead. And then since you are paying for that, you might as well pay a little more to put a phaser on it so it can keep shooting when it runs out of torpedoes, and hey maybe we should put an impulse engine on it so it can defend a greater volume per unit and oops, we seem to have just invented fighter drones.


Edit: It's probably worth noting that one of the big minefields we see on screen is when the Federation mined their terminus of the Bajoran wormhole - a natural choke point, and even that required Replicator Cheese to accomplish (those mines were equipped with an on board replicator set to produce additional mines, both to expand the volume and density to their programmed parameters, and to replace expended mines in situ. and then, well, fun with exponents occured.)
 
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Iirc we do have two examples of system sized mining operations occurring, one from DS9 and another from LD.

Assuming they're more like modern mines (which are basically torpedo houses with sensors) you wouldn't need too too many, though you'd probably be looking at something a bit like a stripped down version of the Cardassian Dreadnought (since you need a warp drive to accelerate the torpedo to warp, unlike with a ship where you can take the velocity of the launching vessel).
 
Iirc we do have two examples of system sized mining operations occurring, one from DS9 and another from LD.

Assuming they're more like modern mines (which are basically torpedo houses with sensors) you wouldn't need too too many, though you'd probably be looking at something a bit like a stripped down version of the Cardassian Dreadnought (since you need a warp drive to accelerate the torpedo to warp, unlike with a ship where you can take the velocity of the launching vessel).
I'm sorry, are you assuming trying to interdict intersystem travel? because the minefields we see in canon are strictly sublight affairs; warp drives are far too expensive to be used expendably to that degree. You want to do that, you garrison some actual Starships in the area.
 
we do see a few minefields across various properties; the primary issue with space mines however is that, well, there's not exactly a lot of choke points in space, so you typically need ludicrous numbers of them to actually accomplish anything. To the point where you might as well just build an automated torpedo emplacement instead. And then since you are paying for that, you might as well pay a little more to put a phaser on it so it can keep shooting when it runs out of torpedoes, and hey maybe we should put an impulse engine on it so it can defend a greater volume per unit and oops, we seem to have just invented fighter drones.


Edit: It's probably worth noting that one of the big minefields we see on screen is when the Federation mined their terminus of the Bajoran wormhole - a natural choke point, and even that required Replicator Cheese to accomplish (those mines were equipped with an on board replicator set to produce additional mines, both to expand the volume and density to their programmed parameters, and to replace expended mines in situ. and then, well, fun with exponents occured.)
One problem where do they get the explosives for the mines? Replicators can't make Antimatter so the mines can't be photo warheads, are they all Quantum warheads? And where did the mines get all the power to make more of themself? Or the feedstock? (Energy to mass is incredible inefficient infact even antimater reaction wouldn't provide enough power to make the shit they do on the regular meaning replicators use some kind of feedstock to transmutate into new stuff.)
 
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To boldly go… into Klingon space, beat up Klingon rear-area forces, and brutalize Klingon industrial capability is absolutely part of the brief.
These are the voyages of the starship Thagomizer. Its five-month mission: to explore Klingon worlds; to seek out their ships and vital infrastructure; to boldly wreck shit no man has wrecked before!

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[×] Ice Cream Maker (+2 Scoops)
How is this joke still going? Is it the +2 Scoops? Should I be running a Starfleet Delights Bureau quest?
 
These are the voyages of the starship Thagomizer. Its five-month mission: to explore Klingon worlds; to seek out their ships and vital infrastructure; to boldly wreck shit no man has wrecked before!

---


How is this joke still going? Is it the +2 Scoops? Should I be running a Starfleet Delights Bureau quest?
I love the etymology of Thagomizer. Everyone knows to watch out for the herbivores
 
[X] Stellar Dynamics (+2 Science)
[X] Extra Crew Quarters
[X] Ice Cream Maker (+2 Scoops)
 
One problem where do they get the explosives for the mines? Replicators can't make Antimatter so the mines can't be photo warheads, are they all Quantum warheads? And where did the mines get all the power to make more of themself? Or the feedstock? (Energy to mass is incredible inefficient infact even antimater reaction wouldn't provide enough power to make the shit they do on the regular meaning replicators use some kind of feedstock to transmutate into new stuff.)
fusion warheads, one presumes. And Replicators do in fact "canonically" do 100% energy-matter conversion; the use of feedstock is entirely a fanon invention. Presumably there's some subspace nonsense involved.
(in theory, direct energy matter conversion is actually very energy efficient if you are recapturing "waste" energy somehow.)
The general assumption I have seen in most ST fan content is that there's a sliding scale of power efficiency involved, but even direct energy conversion isn't so inefficient as to be prohibitive even for fusion reactors.
 
What would a full on Dreadnought look like with the advances in technology?

Thunderchild A??
Warp 8+ engines
Actual Shielding
Phasers and Torpedoes instead of phase cannons, so way more direct power at cost of less ability to counter swarm tactics, though that's also what escorts are for.
Anti-Matter Pods for longer missions
Teleporters (I don't think ThunderChild had them?)
 
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What would a full on Dreadnought look like with the advances in technology?

Thunderchild A??
Warp 8+ engines
Actual Shielding
Phasers and Torpedoes
Anti-Matter Pods for longer missions
Teleporters
Given that unlike with phase cannons we can only power two phasers at a time, Thunderchild is probably a paradigm that will never come again.
 
Given that unlike with phase cannons we can only power two phasers at a time, Thunderchild is probably a paradigm that will never come again.
There's some discussion about reworking Phaser damage again due to dissatisfaction with the previous system which has some big benefit's to the Phasers of larger ships so a Thunderchild sized ship may be viable if that rework goes through.
Maybe instead of going with different models of phaser, you have a 'basic' level of phaser damage: say the current 18. But then you have a 'maximum' damage, maybe something like 24. Or even 27 for +50%. The catch being that the damage goes up as your ship get bigger and their warp cores get beefier. Maybe a 100kt ship has to deal with 18DMG phasers, but a 400kt behemoth is throwing out 27DMG death rays. But going above that doesn't improve things because the phasers have reached their mechanical limit for energy flow.
Would people be happy with this kind of system, where phasers start out with 18 damage at 100,000 tons of ship and below, then scales up to +50% as the ship grows in size?

 
Given that unlike with phase cannons we can only power two phasers at a time, Thunderchild is probably a paradigm that will never come again.
Yeah that goes without saying, Thunderchild A would be using modern phasers and shields not phase cannons and polarized armor hence different tactics then its predecessor.
 
What would a full on Dreadnought look like with the advances in technology?

Thunderchild A??
Warp 8+ engines
Actual Shielding
Phasers and Torpedoes
Anti-Matter Pods for longer missions
Teleporters
Probably something along the lines of the Conqueror class I did for the "MEANWHILE IN THE MIRROR UNIVERSE," bits.

Given that unlike with phase cannons we can only power two phasers at a time, Thunderchild is probably a paradigm that will never come again.
I would not say that. Whilst Sayle has declined to allow mitigation of that mechanic at the moment, we have been told that at the very least whenever we invent phaser strips it'll be going away; so the paradigm of big tanky Battleship with multiple weapons isn't entirely dead forever. (I for one would like it if, when we get to that point, we start having a high power "outer" strip for dueling peers and a lower power "inner" strip for swatting at small stuff without having to retask the main strip on the saucers of our big capitals.)
 
What would a full on Dreadnought look like with the advances in technology?
Estimated weight at ~300k tons, mounting four of the Type 3 impulse thrusters for maximum maneuverability. The larger overall size would provide real estate for more torpedo launchers, both ahead and astern. Slap four to six of the rapid-fire launchers on the front of this bad boy, with two more behind to ensure dispensing of party favors to everyone in range, and a decent number of phasers spaced around the ship to keep everyone honest.

Season to taste with supplementary modules, then cry when you read the bill for your dinner party.
 
Thunderchild A/B/C, maybe even if there's never an A version still hypothetically looks like potential proof of concept for massive Dreadnoughts Explorers like Excelsior/Ambassador/Galaxy (Combat dedicated, not the one with familes aboard still insanity when you saw the dangers Kirks 5 year mission encountered)/Sovereign.
 
fusion warheads, one presumes. And Replicators do in fact "canonically" do 100% energy-matter conversion; the use of feedstock is entirely a fanon invention. Presumably there's some subspace nonsense involved.
(in theory, direct energy matter conversion is actually very energy efficient if you are recapturing "waste" energy somehow.)
The general assumption I have seen in most ST fan content is that there's a sliding scale of power efficiency involved, but even direct energy conversion isn't so inefficient as to be prohibitive even for fusion reactors.
Okayy? Thats just moronic but explains so much, fucking treknobabbel at its finest.
 
Estimated weight at ~300k tons, mounting four of the Type 3 impulse thrusters for maximum maneuverability. The larger overall size would provide real estate for more torpedo launchers, both ahead and astern. Slap four to six of the rapid-fire launchers on the front of this bad boy, with two more behind to ensure dispensing of party favors to everyone in range, and a decent number of phasers spaced around the ship to keep everyone honest.

Season to taste with supplementary modules, then cry when you read the bill for your dinner party.
In this case, I would probably assume that a modernized version of the Thunderchild conceptually would be a four deck main saucer with ~200m diameter, a engineering hull in the Sagarmatha mode or Inline with around eight decks (so the warp core fits) and probably in the ballpark of 80-120 meters in length, probably a triple nacelle cruise configuration as the Federation class or the Galaxy-X refit. Likely triple or quad rapids to fore, and one or two aft, with a mirrored set of four phaser banks in each quarter of the saucer, plus perhaps as many as three more in the secondary hull covering blind angles. This one would skimp on drives- perhaps even a single centerline type three- in exchange for the best shields which could be fitted. But we are not likely to construct such a vessel, for many reasons.

(Also, as a QM runner myself I find it mildly hilarious that @Sayle is working on a potential complete rework of phaser mechanics to solve the problem of "we don't like the two phaser limit." It's very Starfleet, going for a complex new thing when a dead simple solution ("Provide some way of increasing the number of phasers a ship can fire, with some kind of attached cost to discourage simply slapping it onto everything") would solve the problem with basically zero extra work.)

Edit: or better yet, multiple such solutions, only some (or even none) of which are mutually exclusive from a technical/mechanical perspective, and with the "cost" in question encouraging different solutions on different ships. Something like a local reactor module that occupies floor space but doesn't significantly add cost would naturally be more attractive for a larger ship than a smaller one, a reinforced EPS grid that cost-scales on ship mass would naturally favor smaller vessels, whilst a dedicated power feed that increases the cost attached to each phaser would naturally favor ships that are only mounting a small number of them. With, obviously, the budget option being "do none of those and be only able to shoot two at a time." Plenty of room for arguments about what to put on any given design, reasonable explanation for why not everything is going to have them slapped on, and doesn't need any new mechanics to be designed and implemented.
 
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2233: Project Constitution (Name) New
[X] Stellar Dynamics (+2 Science)
[X] Extra Crew Quarters

The Stellar Dynamics laboratory will allow the ship to record and catalogue the local stars as it travels, as well as allowing closer analysis of any unusual phenomena. The crew quarters on the other hand will allow for more comfortable lodgings for the crew and will help reduce fatigue on long assignments. With that finished the vessel is ready for shakedown trails to see just how well the package you've put together performs. It isn't the most conventional hullform you've ever put together, but it has a heavy armament and hasn't broken the bank - and though you may have stepped a little over the line of your desired budget here or there it has always been in the service of higher performance for its core metrics.

But the ship is not complete without a name. There are three immediate candidates: first is Constitution, for the name of the project. Names reflecting the history of constitutions and guarantors of civil law are in ready supply. Second is Defiant, representing the Federation's willingness to stand up to acts of aggression. History offers no shortage of names that extol heroism and stubborness in the face of fate. Third is Excalibur, a reference to the sword of a mythical ruler from Earth's past. Weapons steeped in legend and the rightful use of force will find themselves in good company. There are plenty of available names in theme for any of these choices, though perhaps you have thoughts of your own.

[ ] Constitution-class.
[ ] Defiant-class.
[ ] Excalibur-class.
[ ] Other.

Two Hour Moratorium, Please

 
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