Starfleet Design Bureau

Tanking and tanking for smaller craft are both capabilities this ship has. Adding extra antimatter that is only usable by the Federation class doesn't seem to really help when it's got a mission to top up its buddies. The Federation's got an efficient cruise of 6.8. So even if it is going a bit faster it should burn less Antimatter than the ships it's helping right? There are missions that the extra range could help with but fast fueling and resupply doesn't seem to be one.
Not if they're the expected fast response unit, though. That means that expanded range allows for a lot of wiggle room to run down enemy raiders or burn maximum warp to reinforce an attacked position.

The niche the Federation is going to fit is shaping up more and more to hard countering the Second Golden Age of Piracy. And that flex room for fueling enables multiple emergency responses within the course of that tour.
 
If nothing else, the extra tank means that when the Federation class hits the point anyone else would be turning around to refuel, turns around to go home anyway for other reasons, And Then gets a destress call from further out... It can go out and deal with the destress call and still get home.
Just as an example.
 
I honestly don't think we have enough modules to pull off pharmacology, and if we did it would take devoting the majority or entirety of the ship towards it.
It feels like we would be pushing into a different role, but that's a subjective opinion rather than concern about module amounts - I admit that I would rather see what let's us double down on what we have rather than expand if we have those choices.
You know what would have enough decks and modules for this size? A Sphere.

The Archer-2 can be a mass infrastructure Hauler and a drug slinging medical ship. We have the technology! Heck, give that one the spectroscopy sensors too, probably useful to have running and finding missions for a Fat Freedie to check on.

Edit: ironically enough, with the same type of warp core, even at a smaller mass would still give an Archer-2 the range needed it wouldn't need expanded AM tanks for long haul trucking.
 
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Not if they're the expected fast response unit, though. That means that expanded range allows for a lot of wiggle room to run down enemy raiders or burn maximum warp to reinforce an attacked position.

The niche the Federation is going to fit is shaping up more and more to hard countering the Second Golden Age of Piracy. And that flex room for fueling enables multiple emergency responses within the course of that tour.
If it's responding on the tail end of a patrol that makes sense. Having the flexibility so we only run into no-chase situations a max of half as often isn't bad.

In a refueling context it seems more shaky. With a full tank of 314 LY and Mirandas only handling like 216 LY it feels like it'd take quite a bit of lead-footedness to burn through the Federation's base range even in a chase situation before we needed to resupply a bladder. Do we think a bladder could add 100LY to 3-4 Mirandas so they'd have a 9 month range?
 
In a refueling context it seems more shaky. With a full tank of 314 LY and Mirandas only handling like 216 LY it feels like it'd take quite a bit of lead-footedness to burn through the Federation's base range even in a chase situation before we needed to resupply a bladder. Do we think a bladder could add 100LY to 3-4 Mirandas so they'd have a 9 month range?
The very fact we're asking this question makes the Federation fucking terrifying in a strategic context.
 
Pirates are unable to catch the Federation... mainly because of the aft torpedoes. Orion ships are pretty darn fast in this era.
 
One factoid I think is also worth remembering:
Pharos stations are not built to sustain more than a fraction of the navy's fuel needs at a time

In the event of a crisis or war that pulls ships from all across the Federation and into 1-2 sectors like clowns piling into a clown car, having all the Feddies refuel in their home sectors before heading out vastly simplifies local Starfleet logistics by freeing up local tankage for the shorter-legged Mirandas

Which means we dont have to wait for Starfleet Logistics to ramp up our op-tempo; we can go from 0 to 100 real quick
It makes for a much nimbler and responsive organization


Incidentally, looking at the diagram I think we've got enough room for perhaps 2-3 modules after this.
Kea had 7 modules
So Im assuming we have at least 5 more

At this point I'm wondering why we even bothered building the Pharos stations.
This!!! So much this!
Repairs.
The Pharos-series are not equipped for full-up shipyards, but we did specifically kit them out with the docks and fabrication modules for the maintenance and repair of non-critical ship systems.

Logistics is not just refuelling antimatter, its repairing battle damage and picking up ammunition(torpedo casings)
And the Attenboroghs, Mirandas, Archers, Newtons and Keas certainly benefit from the fuelling capacity even when the Feddies dont



Let me ask you something: are you expecting a Fed to stay out in the sticks for its entire fuel lifetime at a time (i.e. six months or a year) without coming back for a resupply of, say, cargo? Or even just for shore leave? Y'know, places where it's likely they can get a fuel top-off as well? A year's supply of antimatter is excessive if the ship is nearly always within 1 month or less of a refuelling site. Having the ability to sprint clear across our territory twice is great, but how often is that going to be useful? If the ship would be required to run across the whole Federation to deal with a crisis, then clearly A) it's not that time-sensitive, or B) there's almost certainly another ship closer - and if there isn't, that's a failure of Command to properly allocate responders, not a failure of the ship itself.
If the Federation is spending so much time on the border with this range maybe it'd be a good idea to have the Federation with 2 crews like SSBNs
I think one mistake being made is assuming that fuel consumption is constant, and that you wont burn significantly more fuel at Sprint vs when you're at Max Cruise vs Efficient Cruise
Its quite plausible for a Feddie at max cruise to burn a year's worth of fuel much faster than envisioned

And as for duration on station? In the TNG episode Pen Pals, Picard and his crew had been on one uninterrupted science mission in range of a single planet for several months, after spending an indeterminate amount of time examining other exploded planets in the sector; long enough for Data to strike up an eight week old friendship with a child over radio

Then there's RL examples
The aircraft carrier USS Hornet(CV-12) spent 495 consecutive days at sea during WW2 - 18 months
In 2020 during COVID, USS Stout spent 215 continuous days at sea - 7 months



True. Whether it's significantly more per distance covered since Max Cruise is sustainable is one of the big question marks to me. Another is how much an AM bladder can hold. If it's less than 50 LY for a Excalibur then extending the Federation's range really doesn't get you much. If it's over 100LY then it could be more useful.

It does open possibilities for a buddy raid instead of some extended Excalibur commerce raiding. That's a threat that does need to be honored.

It sucks that we'll not pursue any scanning synergies though. Getting another computer core upgrade or an advanced dilithium lab type that gave us a bonus would have been neat and felt like we were actively working to help deal with the crunch we have around strategic materials.
We should have a bunch of modules to go


Do we? Are any Sagarmatha-class ships still functional? The only ship that's even arguably capable of exploration would be the Excalibur-class, and I hate to burst your bubble but it ain't exactly science-focused. It can do some astronomy and astrogation, that's about it.

To be clear, I'm not arguing that we spec the Federation-class heavily into science. I think a pharmacology suite for researching and distributing vaccines and cures out on the frontier would be amazing, but I don't think it'd necessarily be a great idea to try to turn it into a science ship.
The 9x Keas are in service for the next 40 years, and have their science modules refit and upgraded
There are also 6/15 Saladins that survived the War, but they dont get refit and retire in 2271
We are short on dilithium scanning ships, but more general Science does exist, if not to my level of comfort as a Science stan
 
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from on that front.
That was basically just a kitbash of different designs. I didn't even include connections between the Deflector/Shuttle Bay (Yellow/Pink Section).
But yeah, I honestly do think that the Nacelles should be moved from the current position.
I was thinking about moving them zenith from the Saucer section and then having an inline deflector/shuttlebay?

Ugh, I should be sleeping right now.
But, Quick Mock-up of the changes.
Basically, I just want it to be able to go down to a planet/moon with a relatively flat field, Drop off the Grey Cargo Pods, and then either land next to them or leave.
I'm also trying to leave as few blindspots as possible for any Phasers.

-Edit-
Actually now that I think about it, Does anyone think a Miranda-Class could land on a Planet?


I think the top-mounted nacelles and inland deflect work all right. I would suggest moving the nacelles down till the brassards are around where the bridge module would come up. Like just a tiny but back. Also, I don't know if it is possible but I know phaser strips can be put on pylons, I don't know about turrets but if they could it would help you with blind spot problems..

Yeah, The Nacelles can probably come closer down towards the Saucer Section.
I just used the height value for the Original Deflector/Shuttle Bay for the Nacelles when I made that mock-up.
I don't know about the aft-part though?
This is design is supposed to be able to land so I kind of want to maintain the center of mass under the Saucer Section?

Also, Does anyone have a measurement for the distance between Nacelle and Saucer Section is on a Miranda-Class?
I would/will probably go and look it up but I'm honestly kind of need to take a break soon.

Wow, I feel pretty dumb right now.
This design is pretty much already per-existing in Canon.

It's the Kobayashi Maru from the Wrath of Khan.
The only difference is likely just the Scale and Placement of the Hull Sections.



-Edit-
So, Congrats to me. I guess I ended up reinventing the Wheel.
 
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If range is so important, we should max out on Efficient Cruise more often. The canon Constitution has a notable and stark 20% more range than the Excalibur we built. Purely due to superior Efficient Cruise speed.
 
If range is so important, we should max out on Efficient Cruise more often. The canon Constitution has a notable and stark 20% more range than the Excalibur we built. Purely due to superior Efficient Cruise speed.
Semi-correct. Efficient Cruise is what determines how much a given ship can actually do for its routine missions, rather than being between places. Max Cruise is specifically useful for if you need to get to somewhere a few systems over quickly as possible, and Max Warp is for running from a fight or chasing someone trying to run from a fight -- Max Warp isn't a long enough time to actually make it to another star system, so it's not useful for anything else.

Range is useful for this particular design intent of a ship patrolling along the borders of the Federation and servicing colonies while doing so. Efficient Cruise being faster helps not just because of range, but also because it means that less time is spent in transit for any given mission profile that isn't emergency-response or combat pursuit.
 
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If range is so important, we should max out on Efficient Cruise more often. The canon Constitution has a notable and stark 20% more range than the Excalibur we built. Purely due to superior Efficient Cruise speed.
But the Excalibur is a much more potent combatant despite being 10,000 tons lighter, in part because its Sprint is so much better than that of the Connie
You'll note they both have the same Max Cruise of Warp 7
*shrug*
 
God I genuinely hope we get a chance to see a battle group of a Fat Freddy backed by mook Miranda's and an Excalibur-class to serve as the proverbial hammer in action.
 
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