Onionjones
Hopefully Chill
- Location
- The Snack Zone
You may be right but it definitely seems like a lot (the base range of 300LY), at least in comparison to the previous classes
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It's only natural, Starfleet has started mandating 12 months rather than 6 as the operational range at efficient cruise and our efficient cruise speed is a whole warp factor faster than anything before the Excalibur/Attenborough (which are 0.6 warp factor slower, a difference of 76c).
To give an example, the pre-antimatter tank addition Excalibur had a range of 120ly at 6 months efficient cruise, if it was built with a 12 months efficient cruise in mind it'd have a basic range of 240ly, with the tanks making that spring up to either 480ly (assuming Federation style where it's only 2x) or 714ly (with an Excalibur style increase, where it's 2.975x).
TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
approximately 150 ly - 300ish is enough to do a round trip to a point 1 diameter outside federation space, or cross the federation twice. 600 increases that to four federation crossings and two diameters of distance outside federation borders.
Essentially this
I find it wild that in a continuously expanding nationstate that just fought a war where range and speed were critical to national survival, and where almost every Starfleet ship is a warship at need, there are serious proposals that we should limit range on our major warships because its boring
When Wolf 359 happens in this setting, everyone will be happy for as many ships with the range and endurance to make it
Does it cost a module? Yes.
Is it worth it? Almost always, but thats for us to decide, depending on the ship profile
Just like with other generic modules like Science Labs, which almost always show up as well
In a hundred and twenty years, USS Voyager NCC-74656 is going to have the endurance to spend seven uninterrupted years in the Delta Quadrant, and its not even a big ship by then-standards; the Intrepid-class is like half the size of a Galaxy
In 2225 it was a bit over 150ly across.
Assuming a similar rathe of growth from the birth of the Federation to 2225 (about 2.3809ly/y, assuming a straight up 150ly) it should be about 217 (or 220 to round up) lightyears across. Of course, I feel that with our managing to beat back the Klingons, their continuing aggression towards minor powers and our competition with them (thus the need to paint the map to secure more resources) the rate has likely greatly increased* and would say at least 300ly is probably more accurate.
*Since if it stuck to that by 2373 we'd only have a bubble of 502ly.
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Picard cites 8000 ly across, but even in the far off future of PIC, that'd be at Warp 9.9 for 964.59 days, which is a lot of supply to keep on hand.
I don't assume and I think people shouldn't either we need single ships that can cover that.
My argument is that it's bad. It's a choice we'll always take (50%, 3 in a row counting this for the last three), you shouldn't offer those. (And the three we didn't take it on had other concerns.)
In.. 100 years. And no. I won't be. Considering that by canon it wouldn't have mattered how many ships are there (for one) and two, ignoring that, I would rather you not make assumptions about what I want and do not want.
That's only because the writers freely ignored half of the logistics or handwaved them.
Onionjones
Hopefully Chill
- Location
- The Snack Zone
Yes, I've watched Voyager, also wasn't the intrepid class optimized for range or something like that
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Archduke
Don't Take Geology Puns For Granite
- Location
- Texas
Ok, so assuming that the Federation is a spherical cow shape, that gives a circumference of about 471. With the expanded tanks, a Federation Class would be able to completely circle the entire current Federation with 25% fuel remaining. Of course that's just for a perfect circle, but I don't think it'd be too much of a reach to claim that Fat Freddy will be able to do that, make some detours, and then go back to a Pharos for a fill up. And it can do that all at Warp 6.8.
KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
I'm excited to see what kinds of modules will fit into the fucking gigantic saucer we gave Freddy!
By PIC the warp scale seems to have been readjusted yet again, given how quickly they managed to travel to the Fleet Museum and back (to say nothing of the other great but quick voyages like Chin'Toka to the Daystrom Archive (which we know that at the very least is in the Beta Quadrant).
Outside of specialist ships that are meant to stick close to starbases/fuel points I'm going to want the average starship to be able to make at least 3,000ly at efficient cruise (about four years at warp 7.4-TNG, ideally we'll be able to push efficient cruise up to that or higher) by the 2360s.
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I don't think we need ships out ofr 4 ytears without resupply unless they are a dedicated explorer. Tangentially, I think PIC also just ignores distances for sake of plot.
I do not agree
We almost always take Science Labs when they are available, too
Something being a favorite of the voter base is not a justification for it to be taken away
Some things become base capabilities of Star Trek designs like transporters, or improved computers
Some things dont
I will
Our ship designs regularly go upwards of fifty years, and two of them hit almost a century
Basic capabilities are things that are important to get right on ships with that longevity
You are of course entitled to your opinion
But I dont see it as any more of an issue than it was in TOS and TNG
Speed, not range, IIRC
Others can correct me if Im wrong
I'd argue that a dedicated explorer by the time of TNG (so a Galaxy class) should probably be made with 7.5 years max sustainable to account for not only the planned route but also 1.5 years for diversions during the mission and 1 year for return (to meet up with a tender to fuel up and then head to Starbase). That'd be about 2,850ly assuming a warp 6 sustainable cruise, with a warp 7.4 as I'd like it'd be about 5,950ly
Unless operation range is 1/2 true range (kinda like how planes have a combat radius that's enough for them to get out to a place, do a mission for x time and then return over the same distance).
TheShadowDeamon
Mighty Dragon
Remember early on in the quest when we started taking the transporter option with every ship design until Sayle wrote that it now came as standard? I think that's whats happening again with the AM extra tanks. Hopefully Sayle will decide since we keep putting it in that Starfleet will mandate ships have a minimum endurance in all new ships - a convienent in universe explaination and it will be fitted as standard from then on.
I'd be interested in seeing something like a 4 module space where we get options for different sizes of cargobay, antimatter, shuttles, and other options but have to pick which we take. Size 4 offers some benefits, Size 2 is standard, and Size 1 is a minimal functionality or high cost option. Be clear about which cargo or shuttle options we'd see in the primary hull if none are chosen in engineering.
It would make cargobay and antimatter storage votes less automatic and shake up the debates.
It would make cargobay and antimatter storage votes less automatic and shake up the debates.
Already kinda done that with going from 6 months to 12. Doubling this like with the tanks makes it a 24 month endurance.
There are things you cant standardize; if you make extra AM standard, then it becomes an option to take even more
Minimum required range on a ship design is not a static target; it keeps going up as the Federation increases in size, as warp drives get ever faster, and Starfleet's need to concentrate ships changes
Like I pointed out earlier, Wolf 359 required that Starfleet concentrate forty ships in a very short period of time, then assemble even more when that wasnt enough
That involved ships running at max cruise and higher, burning AM profligately in the process
And I wont even get into Dominion War operations
If one of these ships ends up as a museum ship that'd be a brilliant way to go about showing the growth of the Federation under their tenure.
- Location
- Anatolia
I've just been calculating the range as how far half a ship's fuel tank can take them, with the other half being used to return.
There's an interesting thought. Occasionally have a module turn up that lets you have more capabilities in a small volume, like maybe an experimental computer core or science lab, but if you take that option it adds extra cost?
That way we can use cost to add utility where it's absolutely vital that it be extra-concentrated, but we need to be careful about expense.
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- a
I second this @Sayle
At this point, having been picked in a landslide vote that basically ignores the other option three times in a row, I sincerely hope that it be picked automatically or we basically have a no vote option the fourth time.