Cheers for the metrics.
Still seems awfully limited, wonder whether we need to seriously think about a new science ship. I guess Sayle would say if there was a pressing need. Excelsior explorer might satisfy that, though.
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Still seems awfully limited, wonder whether we need to seriously think about a new science ship. I guess Sayle would say if there was a pressing need. Excelsior explorer might satisfy that, though.
- Location
- Australia
I mean, they have completely different combat roles. I would agree the Excalibur is more potent for its size, as potency implies raw offensive power, but one on one the Federation would win. The Excalibur maneuvers like a 90k ship and the Federation like a 150k, so the Excalibur isn't quite fast enough to get under half and trigger to multi-target damage. Their single target damage is about the same, but the Federation has double the shields.
But if it couldn't, it would be pretty disappointing given the price difference.
Uju32 is comparing the Excalibur to the canon Constitution hull, though, not the Federation.
- Location
- America
Excalibur is also much more potent because it also has an Alpha Strike of 110 and a sustained damage of 50
Connie has an alpha strike of 78 and a sustained damage of 42
Connie also has a maneuverability of medium while Excalibur's maneuverability compares just slightly unfavorably with Birds of Prey.
The higher sprint is the cherry on top allowing Excalibur to pick and mix with whoever she likes rather than being forced to just suffer the attentions of whoever has beef this week.
This contributes to the single target rating. 50 to 30 in favor of Excalibur. While both ships are equally unable to mix it up in a furball, as a duelist, the Excalibur is second to NOBODY. The only ship we currently know of that beats the Excalibur in a one v one duel is the K'Tinga.
The K'Tinga doesn't even exist yet.
That being said, all of these capabilities came at one very very important downside.
Excalibur has a cost rating of C to the Constitution's A
Connie is cheap as chips, and the federation could presumably surge out a couple dozen if they really needed to. They didn't need to because the cold war never went hot.
Excalibur would have had to suffer a total production of 12 if not for the 4 years war and the death and shooting opening the defense budget quite nicely.
Connie has an alpha strike of 78 and a sustained damage of 42
Connie also has a maneuverability of medium while Excalibur's maneuverability compares just slightly unfavorably with Birds of Prey.
The higher sprint is the cherry on top allowing Excalibur to pick and mix with whoever she likes rather than being forced to just suffer the attentions of whoever has beef this week.
This contributes to the single target rating. 50 to 30 in favor of Excalibur. While both ships are equally unable to mix it up in a furball, as a duelist, the Excalibur is second to NOBODY. The only ship we currently know of that beats the Excalibur in a one v one duel is the K'Tinga.
The K'Tinga doesn't even exist yet.
That being said, all of these capabilities came at one very very important downside.
Excalibur has a cost rating of C to the Constitution's A
Connie is cheap as chips, and the federation could presumably surge out a couple dozen if they really needed to. They didn't need to because the cold war never went hot.
Excalibur would have had to suffer a total production of 12 if not for the 4 years war and the death and shooting opening the defense budget quite nicely.
0t4n1z3r019
Member of the HAFPTG
- Location
- Philippines
[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)
That's why I want to see a combined arms fight with the Excalibur getting covered by the Freddie and Miranda(s) in a furball. I feel like its the kind of scenario that'd run a cold chill down the spine of Klingon military command while bringing a smile to their collective faces
You're welcome
With any luck we'll be able to get this design up to Science B
But even if we dont we will be designing the new Excelsior explorer in around twenty years, just in time to take over from the retiring Keas and Excaliburs in the early 2290s, and that will be a Science/Tactical primary role
^^^
The Federation of this quest appears to be wealthier than that of TOS, which is why there are more Callies despite the design being more expensive than a canon Connie. I dont really think the original Federation can just print a couple dozen Connies; they'd risk getting mauled like the D7s did at Andoria
Military prowess also has the advantage of deterring the tholians, romulans and gorn. I don't like that I've heard the qm mention them more than once 😓.
Edit: what I'd actually like is some skirmishing against an enemy spearhead that runs straight into a federation class flanked by a pair of Excaliburs with a Vulcan survey ship dropping in halfway, and has a single enemy ship escape badly damaged with fried sensor records, the crew reporting that the grasseater federation have swarms of super fast nasty battleships that spit torpedoes like they're going out of fashion lurking all over their border, ready to spring on any intruders. Won't happen, they'll run into a Saladin and report that's our premier cruiser and catch us in the middle of warp 9 core refits, but one can dream.
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- Location
- Australia
@uju32
Sorry, failed my reading comprehension check on that one. I'll read more carefully next time.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Spectral Analysis (+2 Science)
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)
SCIFI-enthusiast
Fractal-Pattern Technological Singularity
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)
[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)
Archduke
Don't Take Geology Puns For Granite
- Location
- Texas
Don't forget the 10 Attenborough's with the 4 member Atwater subclass. Which a was the previous design we just made. A more generalist science ship (Project Oberth) would be helpful.
Personally, I'd love to make a cheaper Light Cruiser Torpedo spammer to supplement or replace the Callies as raiders - massive alpha strike, High Warp sprint, and high maneuverability. Something like the Matsumoto class? (TMP flavored Akira)
KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
Ah, you mean SanFran's submission for the Explorer bid!
Hilariously, the Attenborough and Atwaters have more Alpha Strike than the current-era Miranda!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
I dunno about other strategic materials that are more detectable from space weirdness- I assume there are some- but dilithium is the only one important enough to get its own analysis module so far. And the dilithium analysis module doesn't synergize with scanners or sensors, it synergizes with geology or geophysics labs and time spent poking around on planets.
The dilithium analysis suite is basically so that when you're on a planet, point your tricorder at a rock, and it pings
Alert: dilithium traces detected, you can grab a bunch of rocks from across the area and figure out how much, how concentrated, and how accessible it is without needing an entire separate expedition for an in-depth survey, so you can either send in the miners straightaway or write it off entirely and save your exploratory geologists' time and effort.Edit: There typically are synergies between scanners or sensors and computer core upgrades (when available)- idk how much they'd impact strategic materials crunch specifically but they would improve the ship's scientific capabilities overall, yes.
Edit2: I've got my fingers firmly crossed that the growing discontent with antimatter tanks will lead folks toward favoring an efficient-cruise-minmaxed, vertical-nacelle layout for the next explorer. Like, here's the chain of logic:
1. We're sick of taking antimatter tankage, even if it is good.
2. It would be silly for our first dedicated explorer to be shorter ranged than our heavy cruiser
3. Going super hard on efficient cruise should- between layout optimizations and the new nacelles- let the explorer without tanks match the range of the Feddie with, thereby satisfying both points (1) and (2).
4. Furthermore, not needing antimatter tankage for properly Explorer-y range means an extra module slot for increasing its exploratory capabilities, plus more chances to synergize with its other modules.
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oh boy cant wait to make a bad explorer 
im joking, but for real the complain about picking the same option is very weird in my opinion, like the ship is already interesting enough.
im joking, but for real the complain about picking the same option is very weird in my opinion, like the ship is already interesting enough.
Archduke
Don't Take Geology Puns For Granite
- Location
- Texas
Efficient cruise is even more boring to me than fuel tanks. Fuel tanks at least help with all types of warp speed, since you're less worried about running out of fuel.
Honestly, if we were to change fuel tanks, I'd rather see something like the below than outright removing it as a voting choice.
Standard Fuel tanks: no range improvements, extra module slot, low cost.
Expanded fuel tanks: improved range, no extra modules, extra cost.
Antimatter containment is not a cheap or simple thing for a ship to plan for.
Honestly, if we were to change fuel tanks, I'd rather see something like the below than outright removing it as a voting choice.
Standard Fuel tanks: no range improvements, extra module slot, low cost.
Expanded fuel tanks: improved range, no extra modules, extra cost.
Antimatter containment is not a cheap or simple thing for a ship to plan for.
Onionjones
The LCAF's best social general
- Location
- The Snack Zone
The problem with antimatter tanks is that it's way too useful - there's a lot of applications and at some point you'd have to be stupid not to take it.
With it on the Excalibur it was up against some pretty generic options against it and so that got less complaints - here I think Spectral analysis is way more unique which brings back ideas like antimatter is boring
Edit: there were definitely people arguing against antimatter on the Excalibur but I think a lot less - it also doesn't help that the Federation already has 300ly of range which is already a lot
With it on the Excalibur it was up against some pretty generic options against it and so that got less complaints - here I think Spectral analysis is way more unique which brings back ideas like antimatter is boring
Edit: there were definitely people arguing against antimatter on the Excalibur but I think a lot less - it also doesn't help that the Federation already has 300ly of range which is already a lot
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What growing discontent?
No offense, but while there is a vocal contingent of people, its a small, largely stable one.
And while they are entitled to their own opinion?
I find it as questionable as complaining about basic Science being mandatory on a Starfleet ship because it takes up space
These are warships. Starfleet has a cap on how many they can build due to resource scarcity
Outside of specific mission profiles where short range is acceptable (see the Attenborough, which is prospecting for colonies within range of Starfleet basing) you always want to give them as much range as you can, because Starfleet will use them as warships
Im generally a Science advocate; I try to get as much science capacity as I can in Trek ships
I consider AM tankage as much a cost of doing business as putting weapons on a Trek ship class thats supposed to spend most of its time doing planetary surveys
No offense, but while there is a vocal contingent of people, its a small, largely stable one.
And while they are entitled to their own opinion?
I find it as questionable as complaining about basic Science being mandatory on a Starfleet ship because it takes up space
These are warships. Starfleet has a cap on how many they can build due to resource scarcity
Outside of specific mission profiles where short range is acceptable (see the Attenborough, which is prospecting for colonies within range of Starfleet basing) you always want to give them as much range as you can, because Starfleet will use them as warships
Im generally a Science advocate; I try to get as much science capacity as I can in Trek ships
I consider AM tankage as much a cost of doing business as putting weapons on a Trek ship class thats supposed to spend most of its time doing planetary surveys
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- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Bumping the Excalibur from 120 to 357 LY range was a big deal, but when this thing's already got 314 LY it doesn't feel as valuable bringing it up to 628 LY. It's a bigger absolute increase, but it's a smaller percentage increase and just in terms of how much range there is to play with it feels like there's already enough there.
A lot is relative, we know that in canon in a century and some change the Federation (or rather its core, since I doubt Picard wanted to get into the nitty gritty of its true span) is going to be about 8,000ly across.
Even if a lot of that came from the post-Khitomer peace it still suggests that before the century is out the Federation's core will likely be greater than 1,000ly across.
628ly (before any efficiency gains from the next generation warp core/nacelles) will mean that the Federation-class will be able to comfortably go from the centre to the border even once we start greatly expanding.