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TehChron said:
Even funnier, the Federation can get its own range expanded by refueling from an Archer
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Pretty sure the Archer's refuling capability amounts to "just barely enough to limp back to the nearest fueling station after they fix whatever disaster caused you to not have any fuel to start with, and it might take more than one of Archer" unless it's specifically pulling a deadicated refueling pod (which may or may not exist).

Sure seems like one of those things that some people in the thread convinced themselves was much more significant than was actually the case, at least.

[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)

There is a point where extra antimatter storage is just silly and pointless. We have not yet reached it.
There are things that are more desirable than extra antimatter storage, but they're either not put up against it or we're given every reason in the world not to take them anyway.
 
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KarmaA said:
Yep, but shouldn't we have one within like 50 LY?

So a Federation and Excalibur go from there out, they get 150ish LY away from the Pharos before the Federation has to turn around. That puts them 100LY beyond the border they refuel and the Excalibur gets another what 75 LY of range added. So now it can get another 60LY deep. 160LY from the border, that's most of a federation (political entity).

If you expand the Federation class range it can go out 314 LY before refueling the Excalibur but can it carry 300 LY of fuel for the Excalibur in a bladder? Even if it could how or why did we pick a fight where the most meaningful strategic targets are such distances away from us.

Additional flexibility is nice but wouldn't starfleet planners make sure that the ship they're sending way the hell out there is in perfect shape with tons of supplies and a rested crew.

With scanners all that data can be dumped and compared any time this ship hits a starbase or fleet intelligence hub. Then starfleet can use scientists and spooks anywhere to sift and find good follow up targets. If something is super interesting and the captain prioritizes it then that's alright. That's why we give them command of the ships in the first place.
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Our ships aren't usually flying in a straight line and then coming back, they're going point to point to do whatever their mission is at planets or stars. The more fuel you have the more time you can spend going from mission to mission instead of heading back to a base to refuel.
 
Bedpotato said:
Logistics wins wars, and thread federation has massivly diverged from canon Federation. We are massivle more industrialized with greater logistics than they are. Why not lean into it to keep the extra industrialisation going?
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We Built Pharos Stations For Logistics

You can overbuild Logistics!

Endorfinator said:
Yeah. To be honest my gripe isn't that anti-matter pods win, it's honestly the best choice for this ship. The problem is that it is always the best choice. I'd rather we stick to votes where there is an actual chance any of the options can win.
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Yeah. I'd have preferred something else because I think 314ly is enough range, to be honest, (it's a lot of range) but yeah, I understand why we're going for it. Nothing ever was going to win against it. This thread tends not to value trade-off or "good enough" to shore up other options often enough.
 
[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)

As for the idea of a refuelling probe, there is that 2 deck space running along the top of the hangar. Perhaps it could go in there.
 
Strunkriidiisk said:
At this point I'm wondering why we even bothered building the Pharos stations.
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KNakamura said:
We Built Pharos Stations For Logistics

You can overbuild Logistics!
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Yes the Pharos stations helps with logistics in the core and some in the middle colonies. But, what about more logistics? You can never have enough of it and a extended range Federation will be the ultimate border transport/colony helper. With a side note of edurance predator for warships. Anything it fights it can kill, anything to fast to kill it can follow along behind until their warp core gets strained and then scrap.
 
Bedpotato said:
Logistics wins wars, and thread federation has massivly diverged from canon Federation. We are massivle more industrialized with greater logistics than they are. Why not lean into it to keep the extra industrialisation going?
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Logistics do win wars when all else is equal. But fundamentally it doesn't matter how many bullets you can ship if you don't have men with guns to fire them. That was the lesson of the Four Year War. We had a fantastic logistics fleet which enabled greater expansion and industrialization but didn't have enough warships to deter the Klingon Empire.
 
Endorfinator said:
Logistics do win wars when all else is equal. But fundamentally it doesn't matter how many bullets you can ship if you don't have men with guns to fire them. That was the lesson of the Four Year War. We had a fantastic logistics fleet which enabled greater expansion and industrialization but didn't have enough warships to deter the Klingon Empire.
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I know that and have been voting for maximum firepower and warships since the first thread. Its just this time Logistics and firepower come in one big pretty package.
 
Lohjak said:
Our ships aren't usually flying in a straight line and then coming back, they're going point to point to do whatever their mission is at planets or stars. The more fuel you have the more time you can spend going from mission to mission instead of heading back to a base to refuel.
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That was specifically to address deep strike capability that the extra range was supposed to help with. Being able to fly a distance equal to a massive chunk of the Federation into enemy space was already enough.

The Federation class already has the distance to refuel another ship deep in hostile territory. If we're saying the areas it'll deliver supplies to are urgent or extremely dangerous then having it on a year long loop also doesn't seem optimal. You'd want a supplies frequently otherwise you risk making a colony pirate bait after their yearly drop-off.

I'm sure there are plenty of cases where having extra fuel to burn is useful but being able to have unpredictable roving cutting edge sensor platforms popping up near your borders seems more useful. Especially when you'd be able to dump the data from them to leverage some planetary computer resources and populations. Your core planets and military can help process the data for anomalies, opportunities, and enemy action. You passively build up a catalog of likely spots for pirates or hostiles to be hiding even if you don't detect signs directly. Plus whatever dilithium scanning synergy we could get.
 
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Bedpotato said:
Yes the Pharos stations helps with logistics in the core and some in the middle colonies.
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You.. deploy Pharos stations to the frontier? Like a sane person?

But, what about more logistics? You can never have enough of it and a extended range Federation will be the ultimate border transport/colony helper.
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You can in fact have too much. I commend to you Logistics in the National Defense by Rear Admiral Henry. E Eccles (Ret, US Navy)
 
Bedpotato said:
You can never have enough of it and a extended range Federation will be the ultimate border transport/colony helper.
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Let me ask you something: are you expecting a Fed to stay out in the sticks for its entire fuel lifetime at a time (i.e. six months or a year) without coming back for a resupply of, say, cargo? Or even just for shore leave? Y'know, places where it's likely they can get a fuel top-off as well? A year's supply of antimatter is excessive if the ship is nearly always within 1 month or less of a refuelling site. Having the ability to sprint clear across our territory twice is great, but how often is that going to be useful? If the ship would be required to run across the whole Federation to deal with a crisis, then clearly A) it's not that time-sensitive, or B) there's almost certainly another ship closer - and if there isn't, that's a failure of Command to properly allocate responders, not a failure of the ship itself.
 
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[X] Spectral Analysis (+2 Science)

I love logistics, but we already have /plenty/. Giving a long-range vessel like this some eyes is gonna be important, especially if she ends up operating on her own without escorts or scouts.
 
landcollector said:
Imo, the use case for deploying Pharos stations to the frontier areas in the modern era is deprecated. We've been handed a painful lesson in the 4YW that their defenses are inadequate against any sort of serious hostile force. We need to design a new station that has a heavier emphasis on weapons.
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Yes, you .. have ships for defense. Or you deploy satellites. You know, how we've handled things since time immemorial?
 
To be honest, I've long assumed that the Pharos design has depreciated - were never getting more built than we're stated in the retrospective, except perhaps to replace the wartime loss. It's also likely far too massive to transport to the now frontier/near it.
 
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