Starfleet Design Bureau

[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)

Circumference is bigger than radius, so if we want this to actually be patrolling around the perimeter of Federation space (especially if we want it to maximally exploit its Max Cruise, not just Efficient Cruise) then this is one of the mission profiles where extra range actually is useful.
 
[] Spectral Analysis (+2 Science)
This is everything I ever wanted. It's beautiful. It's amazing. It's classic star trek. It's literally "sensors have detected something unusual two systems over" and getting distracted from their official mission to Find Stuff.

I wants it, I do. My precious.

But Sayle explicitly told us that the larger cargo means we could spend a solid year on active duty on the border, not just mindless patrol, but active duty supporting colonies without losing large percentages of time flying back and forth to do it. If we hadn't been told the cargo is sufficient to support a year of active help, I wouldn't event look at it. I would be able to take Spectral Analysis and be happy.

But I can't. This is too useful. Damn it.

[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)

Edit: We will need to pick something nice for crew morale now. If we are doing one year missions, they are going to need nicer rooms. Command deck works against this ship role, but presumably still saved cost on phasers and looks cool, so that's OK.
Ice cream bar is a go.
 
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[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)

Range is too useful. I really want those sensors on an explorer, so hopefully we can make the Excelsior huge enough to take both.
 
Personally I hope for our next station we get to design Spacedock(s).

It'd be cool to make a SB74 sized base years early, rather than have to deal with the ESD and it becoming outdated.
For reference, SB74, ESD and Starbase 6 (TOS-R, probably closest in scale/appearance to the Pharos):



Numbers are diameter, iirc.
 
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For reference, SB74, ESD and Starbase 6 (TOS-R, probably closest in scale/appearance to the Pharos):



Numbers are diameter, iirc.
I hate this so much, it's even worse than the jumbo sized birds of prey.

Re-use props from the movies if you want, but don't just arbitrarily say they're giant versions that look identical. God, how big must those windows be?
 
I hate this so much, it's even worse than the jumbo sized birds of prey.

Re-use props from the movies if you want, but don't just arbitrarily say they're giant versions that look identical. God, how big must those windows be?
Dude, it was a pre existing model that's scaled either 2ft or 6ft ship models, pre-CGI the cost and labour to make the thing must have been unimaginable. They can do what they want with it.

It's also scaled so the Galaxy-class can fit through the doors, meaning it must by definition be bigger.


Besides, the mushroom design actually scales up really well.
 
[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)

Dude, it was a pre existing model that's scaled either 2ft or 6ft ship models, pre-CGI the cost and labour to make the thing must have been unimaginable. They can do what they want with it.



It's also scaled so the Galaxy-class can fit through the doors, meaning it must by definition be bigger.

Yeah, I get saying it's lazy because if they did this with modern CG it would be lazy. It's just that they did it with massive models so they get a pass because the sheer effort to make a brand new one would be ridiculous
 
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Not counting the Pharos starbase, (because it's not a starship,) by my count we've been given the option for extra antimatter five times so far, and have chosen it only the last two times. This would bump that up to three times out of six total, and show a trend where starting with the Archer we valued extended range more than we used to.

Curiosity
Sagamartha
Kea
Archer
Excalibur

I am counting this, and a consistent vote on it is enough to make me twitch.
 
VOTE
[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)


Its not that Spectral Analysis is a bad pick or doesnt synergize with the role of operating along the Federation's borders
Just that Antimatter Storage is a better one

This is a choice that synergizes with both its role as a tactical cruiser, and provides a measure of future proofing as the Federation expands in size. And the ability for a Feddie to hold Qo'nos and other major Klingon shipbuilding nodes at risk seems like a useful deterrent capacity to have


As before, a concern should be just how quickly that Spectral Analysis suite will become outdated and lose its value. We've seen similar things happen to Science based modules more than once in our designs.
To be fair, they'll get refitted and updated as the ship serves.
The Attenboroughs, Excaliburs and the Keas had their labs updated in their lifetime

Space... is big, mindblowing yes, meaning having new data from a FTL capable ship is a lot more valuable then on the ground telescopes.

Let me repeat, space is so big light takes a long as time when your measuring things in lightyear, so being able to see something from 100 lightyears away dont mean much when your data is 100+ years outta date.

A ship with decent eyes traveling along where its at can get new data instantly. With subspace communications reporting of recent developments means a whole lot.
Note that in the safe interior of Federation space, science can be done by research satellites and probes, and civilian ships puttering along at Warp 4

To quote the update:

The antimatter option will support the ship being on the border helping colonies. The Spectral Analysis will be supporting the ship taking excursions outside Federation space.

[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)
This is not entirely true.

The Federation is a tactical cruiser. Part of its job as a warship is to hold enemy space at risk, and to force them to keep additional forces back protecting their key infrastructure instead of fucking with our space
So Antimatter Storage is very much aa pick that supports both operations beyond our borders AND along our border regions

Ok, but it is at least a mild anti-synergy with the cargo. The cargo wants to be moving between places with people basically all the time. It doesn't want to stop and look at stuff. It pulls the ship in a direction other than what we want the ship to be doing as much as it can.

The additional range means that we don't have to divert to a refuel station as often and can run at slightly higher warp profiles more often, meaning the mission of cargo delivery is more effective.
No it isnt
It does have good synergy with its other roles as a border guard
Its just not as good an option in this role as Antimatter Storage in this role

What twisted mirror world are you living in where 314 LY range is considered short-ranged?
The Federation is still growing
What seems generous today wont in twenty or thirty years.

The Kea was built with a range of 70LY and that was considered good only 40 years ago, but its first refit at less than 30 years of service saw Starfleet yank out a science module in order to squeeze in extra AM storage to extend its range, in addition to the pair of torpedoes it got

Yeah. To be honest my gripe isn't that anti-matter pods win, it's honestly the best choice for this ship. The problem is that it is always the best choice. I'd rather we stick to votes where there is an actual chance any of the options can win.

Its always a strong choice, its not always the best choice
The Attenboroughs didnt get the choice because their mission profile of surveying colony worlds is one where additional range is not a major priority compared to the other options it had available

Yep, but shouldn't we have one within like 50 LY?

So a Federation and Excalibur go from there out, they get 150ish LY away from the Pharos before the Federation has to turn around. That puts them 100LY beyond the border they refuel and the Excalibur gets another what 75 LY of range added. So now it can get another 60LY deep. 160LY from the border, that's most of a federation (political entity).

If you expand the Federation class range it can go out 314 LY before refueling the Excalibur but can it carry 300 LY of fuel for the Excalibur in a bladder? Even if it could how or why did we pick a fight where the most meaningful strategic targets are such distances away from us.

Additional flexibility is nice but wouldn't starfleet planners make sure that the ship they're sending way the hell out there is in perfect shape with tons of supplies and a rested crew.

With scanners all that data can be dumped and compared any time this ship hits a starbase or fleet intelligence hub. Then starfleet can use scientists and spooks anywhere to sift and find good follow up targets. If something is super interesting and the captain prioritizes it then that's alright. That's why we give them command of the ships in the first place.
Efficient Cruise =/= Max Cruise; wartime operations tend to happen at, or close to max cruise, which burns more AM
And remember that tactical operations seldom, if ever happen in a straight line
Its also worth noting that logistics nodes like Pharos are priority targets in wartime, and being able to untether much of your fleet from them is a strategic advantage

You.. deploy Pharos stations to the frontier? Like a sane person?

You can in fact have too much. I commend to you Logistics in the National Defense by Rear Admiral Henry. E Eccles (Ret, US Navy)
We dont deploy Pharos stations to the border.
Its economically unwise, politically inflammatory and militarily indefensible to put a 20mt military/civilian logistics node within range of a quick cross border incursion.

Its also worth noting that they arent that common; we had a planned run of 8x Pharos stations all across Federation space, which went up to 10 because the design was relatively cheap
We lost Pharos Four and Pharos Seven on-screen in the direction of the Klingon border; dunno if we lost more
 
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[X] Spectral Analysis (+2 Science)

I said I wanted better sensors...
That said, I don't think these particular sensors are particularly useful in a tactical sense, but at least they'll help with strategic finding of various things.
 
I'd prefer the science widget, but at this point I just want a ship that isn't a hamstrung* mess of mission creep and good idea fairies.

[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)
 
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[x] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)

This feels more suited to the ship's intended roles and missions.
 
[X] Spectral Analysis (+2 Science)

The closest thing that we have in service to this capability is the Stellar Dynamics lab on the Excalibur class and I don't see us building anything else to fill this niche in the near future. I'd rather dilute the build rather than leave such a valuable niche unfilled for another 30-50 years.

In other words I think the benefit of adding this capability now is worth the cost of likely shortening the design's useful lifespan.
 
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As an upside, with the antimatter tanks the ship has a clearly defined role now.
It gets loaded up, sent to the border, and spends a year travelling between everything on the periphery, repairing things, supplying things and fighting pirates.
This honestly seems like a great counter play to the age of pirates, if we have enough of them.
We can focus on things that make it better at this role specifically, rather than a hodge podge of random science that we think is cool. I think surveying is probably off the menu?

Kick the medical bay up a level or so, but that's about it for normal science I think. Well, unless we can get an improved communication suite - I really want to be able to pick up distress signals and such from maximum distance - but don't know if thats a thing that can be done.

Annoyingly we might end up with Fabrication bays yet again.
On the upside, given that we probably need a crew morale module for year long missions, a carefully picked one might partially double as a diplomatic module. Perhaps a Ten Forward equivalent, given it seems to have been used from everything from parties to live musical performances?
Not a bowling alley, traditional as that might be :p
 
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