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We will not be able to compete with the Miranda on a cost or numbers basis, but I'd like to see the Fat Freddie compare well on a length of service basis, and future proofing our range helps with that. Even if it's boring.

I interpreted that extra parts as being just more stores to help with long duration missions. Fuel is important for range, but having enough parts to fix wear and tear related breakdowns is always nice.
 
The Miranda-class will have a range of 216ly, with the added range of the antimatter tanks we'll have a range advantage of 2.9x over it.

Therefore the antimatter tanks offer a great synergy with the cargo bay, as we should (assuming several = 4 and we can at least fill them up from dry once each) be able to give the Miranda class an effective range of 432ly or only 1.45x greater than it once refuelling is taken into account.

This'll make the Federation an even more potent core to task forces as we'll be able to go further and also make the other ships operate in a similar ballpark.
 
In many ways the Federation might be seen as a response to the "Vulture-Class" derision the Archer faced during the 4YW on the retrospective.

A logistics supporting ship that participates in the fighting and can cover everything else in the furball. We might not get more Federations made than Mirandas, but at the rate its shaping up you can bet that any Starfleet Admiral would rather lose a half dozen Mirandas in mass combat over scratching the paint job of a single Federation

It's gonna be nuts, I can already tell
 
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Endorfinator said:
@Sayle would you just consider not having us vote on antimatter storage? The thread is never going to not take it when offered and it's really just frustrating at this point to see any other interesting possibilities instantly discarded by the range mafia.
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I'm not antimatter mafia, I wanted something else. But a ship this expensive needs to be good at what it does, and the notes say this makes us better at what we're doing instead of trying to dilute our capabilities. If we'd voted shuttlebays I'd be much more likely to vote something that is not antimatter. As it is? This gets us the most bang for our buck.

landcollector said:
Honestly, I feel the casual use of "X Mafia" to label a group of voters that aren't on board with your preference is in bad faith. It stifles productive debate. I, personally , am voting for extra AM storage because I've yet to be convinced of the mid and long term viability of Spectral Analysis.
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Spectral Analysis will be fine for science - this is Trek Science, the things you can learn from spectra just keep expanding and that's WITHOUT the subspace spectra and colors out of space unknown to primitive 20th century science.

But we need something that gives synergy.

A Slipspace Tree said:
To quote the update:


The antimatter option will support the ship being on the border helping colonies. The Spectral Analysis will be supporting the ship taking excursions outside Federation space.

[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)
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Exactly. It's directly aligned with supporting the mission profile we chose with the cargo. This ship lives or dies on synergy.
 
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[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)

The Federation-class now feels like a proto-Galaxy-class to me, with the extra cargo and hopefully the fuel tanks.
The modules on the saucer should round things out.
 
[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)

The Spectral Analysis suite would have made more sense if XL cargo hauling hadn't become one of this ship's standout features.

Given the fact that Starfleet is quite short on fast XL Cargo hauling capabilities outside of the significantly slower by comparison Archer this thing's time is best spent flying from point A to point B as fast as it can.
Sayle said:
The second option is to specialise towards the transport of extra-large cargo such as finished infrastructure or volatiles requiring heavy containment, which as a capability is in short supply in the fleet outside of the slow Archer-class and its bulk transport role.
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The Archer cap's out at 5.2 for Efficient Cruise Vs the Federation's 6.8 which put's the Federation at being more than twice as fast (314c vs 140c) and with the range boost it can probably run at Max Cruise as long as the Archer can at Efficient given the near 4.5 times greater range (628 vs 140) while being nearly 3 times faster (405c vs 140c).
 
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Endorfinator said:
Just to clarify we wouldn't be voting on an additional module for fleet refueling capability. The cargo bay we voted for last vote is inherently modular and can be fitted with a fuel bladder and refueling equipment as part of a mission payload.
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Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly. As far as refueling goes we can't refuel using these extended stores AND we can't refuel using our primary fuel tanks but we CAN put a bladder in a cargo-bay to refuel.

So extending the range on this ship will have 0 impact on how much we can extend the range of other ships right?
 
[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)

Double down on what the ship is good at. We were specifically asked not to spend space on science modules that are only potentially useful if we could put in a more universal option instead - and I'm hard pressed to think of something more universally applicable than "ship can go twice as far".
 
KarmaA said:
Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly. As far as refueling goes we can't refuel using these extended stores AND we can't refuel using our primary fuel tanks but we CAN put a bladder in a cargo-bay to refuel.

So extending the range on this ship will have 0 impact on how much we can extend the range of other ships right?
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Yes, technically, except it means we can carry them farther.
 
Real talk, with this range and mission profile even with the Miranda being ubiquitous the Federation might wind up being seen as THE Ship class for the average Starfleet citizen. And gives the Excalibur classes tons of leeway to be dispatched for those long term missions
 
Well, this vote bores me. Have a speculative design I got far too into the weeds with for what was supposed to be a quick mockup.



Fits two standard cargo pods, with the positioning hopefully containing them without needing to distend the warp field too much.

It's sized for an 11-deck warpcore just like the Fed, and with the speculative TMP-era nacelles that should give it an efficient cruise of Warp 7.2 at the most conservative estimate (assuming that interference from the cargo pods would cancel out the benefit of the new nacelles).
 
[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)

A thought occurs, with its rather outstanding warp speed and the fact the antimatter storage gives it ridiculous legs, the Federation would actually be rather terrifying to run into. Even if your max warp cruise speed is more than it is, it's still within the higher technological margin for the era. What this means, is that if the Federation has your scent, no matter how fast you are, it's almost certainly going to outlast you, and then rip you apart like an ornery bulldog. Once the jaw snaps shut, it won't let go till you're dead.
 
KarmaA said:
Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly. As far as refueling goes we can't refuel using these extended stores AND we can't refuel using our primary fuel tanks but we CAN put a bladder in a cargo-bay to refuel.

So extending the range on this ship will have 0 impact on how much we can extend the range of other ships right?
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No.

It has a very big impact. The Excalibur class starship has a range of 357ly, the baseline Federation 314ly - this means that an Excalibur would need to take a decently sized detour to link up with a baseline Federation, and likewise for any other ships we fuelled up past our range that need another top up, cutting into the effective range they've got.

This way we can keep up with the rest of the fleet elements and keep their effective range higher than it would otherwise be.
 
darkstarling said:
Yes, technically, except it means we can carry them farther.
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So we could have a bladder we keep on hand for like a year or so to top off ships we come across as part of our patrolling and moving cargo around. Or we could use that space for hauling cargo and then our speed to pop back to a station to pick up a bladder when any sort of planned fleet action (or emergency) occurred.

If we want a cargo hauler I'm mostly confused why we need longer legs. Colonies shipping huge quantities to each other to keep this ship busy without it ever bouncing back to the areas that are more built up (with more AM access but less than the core) just doesn't mesh well with how I'm picturing the federation.

Tank man said:
No.

It has a very big impact. The Excalibur class starship has a range of 357ly, the baseline Federation 314ly - this means that an Excalibur would need to take a decently sized detour to link up with a baseline Federation, and likewise for any other ships we fuelled up past our range that need another top up, cutting into the effective range they've got.

This way we can keep up with the rest of the fleet elements and keep their effective range higher than it would otherwise be.
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Why is your mission critical ship detouring?
 
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Tinkerer said:
What this means, is that if the Federation has your scent, no matter how fast you are, it's almost certainly going to outlast you, and then rip you apart like an ornery bulldog. Once the jaw snaps shut, it won't let go till you're dead.
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And with that extended range, it'll have the leeway to commit to that chase even if out on the edges of Federation space.

Perfect for screwing over Pirates that dare mess around within it's operational area. Or Klingon Raiders who consider the Neutral Zone a polite suggestion
 
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TehChron said:
Real talk, with this range and mission profile even with the Miranda being ubiquitous the Federation might wind up being seen as THE Ship class for the average Starfleet citizen. And gives the Excalibur classes tons of leeway to be dispatched for those long term missions
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At the very least it's going to be the ship you see if you're colonial and the ship you see if someone arrives to protect your planet from pirates. So it's going to be living up to its name, improving quality of life and saving lives.

What has the Federation done for me lately? Well...

Tinkerer said:
[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 314ly -> 628ly)

A thought occurs, with its rather outstanding warp speed and the fact the antimatter storage gives it ridiculous legs, the Federation would actually be rather terrifying to run into. Even if your max warp cruise speed is more than it is, it's still within the higher technological margin for the era. What this means, is that if the Federation has your scent, no matter how fast you are, it's almost certainly going to outlast you, and then rip you apart like an ornery bulldog. Once the jaw snaps shut, it won't let go till you're dead.
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Absolutely! Doesn't matter if you can Sprint away, that just means you'll be fighting in twelve hours with a strained warp core.
 
KarmaA said:
Why is your mission critical ship detouring?
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Detour because it'd need to make up the 43ly difference between it and the Federation (probably more in practice).

It doesn't matter if your tanker can refuel the whole damn airforce if it's so short legged your planes have half their effective range due to needing to meet up with it at the edge of its range.
 
Tank man said:
Detour because it'd need to make up the 43ly difference between it and the Federation (probably more in practice).

It doesn't matter if your tanker can refuel the whole damn airforce if it's so short legged your planes have half their effective range due to needing to meet up with it at the edge of its range.
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But by the time it's that far out it's already crossed the federation twice right? Just refuel at 300. At that point aren't you already at least 50% of a federation past our borders?

Why would you send an Excalibur into deep space without a thorough maintenance and resupply cycle at the closest point to where you're heading?
 
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KarmaA said:
If we want a cargo hauler I'm mostly confused why we need longer legs. Colonies shipping huge quantities to each other to keep this ship busy without it ever bouncing back to the areas that are more built up (with more AM access but less than the core) just doesn't mesh well with how I'm picturing the federation.
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Not that kind of cargo hauling, that's what we have the Archer for (or, more realistically, a billion civilian-rated transports that don't require antimatter or valuable dilithium). This is a military vessel, it's only going to be doing basic cargo runs in an emergency, or if it has literally nothing better to do - most of its cargo at any given time is going to be equipment and strategic resources from Starfleet, to Starfleet.
 
KarmaA said:
If we want a cargo hauler I'm mostly confused why we need longer legs.
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That's in the most recent update, no subtext required:
Sayle said:
Given the large cargo space, this could allow the ship to take onboard a great number of parts and machinery, then spend over a year on the border rendering assistance to the more distant colonies and settlements.
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Doubling the Federation's range means the Federation can pick up supplies and distribute them to a bunch of colonies in need rather than having to return to the core areas after serving any one or two colonies because it's short on fuel.

Any given colony doesn't need the entire cargobay of the Federation at any one time, and stockpiling too many goodies would make them targets for pirates, anyway.

As a bonus, this means the Feddie spends a lot more of its time in border areas.
 
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