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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Cecylene said:
Generations is usually referring to a cultural/species thing but an individual.

Or I suppose in this circumstance it's when Khazagar is passed down from Snorri (Gen 0) to Karstah (Gen 2) and then to Gen 3 leadership.

If Khazagar has collapsed as unsustainable, become a den of rule breaking like directly writing Runelore etc., been destroyed physically, or shown to provide no meaningfully long term gain for the investment and problems it caused then it's a failure. If after the third person who didn't learn from Snorri can avoid all those pitfalls then Khazagar the institution is a success. Otherwise it's just Snorri's very big workshop with pretensions.
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Even if it lasts for the entire span remaining to life on Malus? That was my point here, the concept of inheritance breaks down when death is optional.
 
DragonParadox said:
Even if it lasts for the entire span remaining to life on Malus? That was my point here, the concept of inheritance breaks down when death is optional.
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Also kinda my point, Snorri has the option to never let his prototype leave his workshop. of he does, there's no reason for Thungni to ever make a judgement about it because Snorri isn't done with his personal project.

Thungni choose to send Runecraft and his students out into the world to teach and learn and make without him or his guidance.

Only once something has been looses into the world without the control of its master, for something as heavily steeped in something as ephemeral as culture and tradition as any institution is you cannot judge it purely on how it is when it's being run by the literal source of the guiding philosophy.

Death or departure are my assumed requirements for Thungni's judgement of Khazagar. Otherwise as I said, Khazagar is just a very very large workshop and library run by Snorri. When it's cut loose from Snorri's legacy it'll have the chance to be judged on the merits of its own utility.

An alternate way to think of it, is that an hammer can't be judged until the smith actually lets it leave his workshop and stops fiddling with it. Until Snorri is gone, he is by dint of being its creator eternally fiddling with what Khazagar is in terms of its foundational culture and tradition.
 
soulcake said:
[ ] [Courage:] Left
[The wearer has increased bravery. They become generally aware of spells and items being used to negatively impact their mental state.]
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Honestly, I wonder how much is being "generally aware" of something.
Because, while it definitively isn't "The third bray shaman from the left, at 46° degree North, is currently increasing your anger by 37% by using the 'Increase Fury' spell.", as it would be way too precise to be "generally aware", the absolute minimum is "Something is magically messing with your mind." which is about as vague as you can be.

However, if we assume that "mental state" mean your emotions, because it would say something else if it was about mental manipulation in general, then it just mean you become aware when someone tries to give you unnatural fear. Why fear? Because it's the only 'negative' mental state from a dwarf/opponent point of view, as the rest just make you fight harder. At best we could maybe add "Sadness" to the list, depending on if you curl up and start crying in the middle of the battlefield.

But there's another problem : Just become you are aware that the fear you're feeling is unnatural, doesn't mean that you will be able to push past it. For sure there are dwarves who require this awareness to push past the fear, but then you have dwarves too young and inexperienced, who get swallowed by the fear and can't do shit about it, and you have the elders, who not only have the experience to know that someone is trying to mess with their heads, but the willpower to also ignore the fear altogether, be it natural or magically induced.

Of course there's also the artificial courage, but I'm talking about the second part.

TL;DR : In my opinion, this rune is only really useful when your opponent is trying to route the dwarves by magically inducing fear, and doesn't even stop it from happening, nor does it tell you any information on the caster or the spell. It is the runic equivalent of a Weather Rock. If the rock is wet, it is raining, but at that point you are already soaked, and you can't use the rock as an umbrella.
 
Cecylene said:
Judgement deferred pending results. If Thugni sends a message titles, "Final Judgements RE: Khazagar" I assume it won't be until two generations after Snorri is no longer leading it.
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Honestly this feels weird since Thungni has his speciality in dramatics. Looking back, our first notable interaction with Thungni was on the day he chose a number of Dawi. 4 Talented youngsters and us are the only confirmed ones but there's likely a couple more in the background. This was done almost within the 24 hour period if I'm reading it right.

Additionally "Judgement deferred pending results" is in hindsight a final note before Thungni giving up the ghost. There's likely no practical time period where Thungni is alive with the Khazagar complete to give a judgement. Most likely the Judgement is handed off to Alrik or some other trusted friend of Thungni.

In this POV the pending results is likely when the Khazagar is complete and mostly self autonomous like the RuneSmith Guild with Thungni. Yes they are still technically involved but for the most part the founders moved on to other things.

R4d6 said:
However, if we assume that "mental state" mean your emotions, because it would say something else if it was about mental manipulation in general, then it just mean you become aware when someone tries to give you unnatural fear. Why fear? Because it's the only 'negative' mental state from a dwarf/opponent point of view, as the rest just make you fight harder. At best we could maybe add "Sadness" to the list, depending on if you curl up and start crying in the middle of the battlefield.
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That's not true.

We have at least 2 other emotions that we were affected negatively. Greed and Anger. Important to note that in both cases the negative effect isn't strictly the greed or anger itself, but in how it overrides our rational thinking above and beyond what the normal range of the emotion should do.

It's likely that this variant of Runes can protect against the first type since they were made by the same dawi.
 
Evillevi said:
We have at least 2 other emotions that we were affected negatively. Greed and Anger. Important to note that in both cases the negative effect isn't strictly the greed or anger itself, but in how it overrides our rational thinking above and beyond what the normal range of the emotion should do.
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Yeah that's fair.

Evillevi said:
It's likely that this variant of Runes can protect against the first type since they were made by the same dawi.
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Eh... not sure on that one Chief. If the rune protected you from the mental manipulation, it would say something other than "They become generally aware of spells [...]", or at least add more to it to mention the protection.
 
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  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by soulcake on Jul 21, 2024 at 7:42 PM, finished with 144 posts and 92 votes.
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  • Voting
    • [] [Courage:] Left

    Gonna be honest, unless there was obvious evidence it was the wrong choice I'd be picking the left. Being actually AWARE of what's happening is most often the critical difference between success and failure.

    My favorite example is Boromir and Faramir. Yeah, Boromir broke his oath - and the instant he truly realized what he was doing, he got back up and fulfilled it to the best of his ability, even unto death. Faramir was prepared to damn Justice and uphold the Law - until he saw what the Ring did to Frodo, at which point he showed his quality.

    EDIT: Dagnabbit, ninja'd. Blasted sneaky-ass Ranger-Santa strikes again. :ninja:
     
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    Yeah and we just saw in the earlier trial that the hardest part of throwing the mental manipulation off for Snorri was realizing it was there. Just knowing there's something fishy going on is almost enough on its own. I think if we build stone right we'll probably end the combo with increasing mental resistance over time as well.
     
    Cheap Orange Knofe said:
    What's the difference between left right and center?
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    The differences are in the post :
    soulcake said:
    Pick 1
    [ ] [Courage:] Left
    [The wearer has increased bravery. They become generally aware of spells and items being used to negatively impact their mental state.]

    [ ] [Courage:] Center
    [The wearer's physical abilities rise in proportion to the level of natural and artificial fear they feel/are subjected to, up to double their natural peak]

    [ ] [Courage:] Right
    [The wearer has increased bravery. Casting the Rune renders the caster and nearby allies fearless for ten minutes but they are subjected to the fear they would have otherwise felt after the fact]
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    Cheap Orange Knofe said:
    What's the difference between left right and center?
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    On it's own
    1. Left: Basically persistent and specialized effect towards changes to mental state
    2. Center: Combat boost if you're afraid
    3. Right: Amplified unbreakable effect and turns the Armor into a timed AOE
    That said as BungieOni pointed out we have combo potential.

    1. Left makes our combo potentially include resistance towards mental effects
    2. Center makes our armor combat capable
    3. Right makes it a teamwork effect but it last a short time.

    R4d6 said:
    Eh... not sure on that one Chief. If the rune protected you from the mental manipulation, it would say something other than "They become generally aware of spells [...]", or at least add more to it to mention the protection.
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    This is a difference in definition I think. From my POV the negative change in our emotions during the trial qualifies for the mental state requirements. The specific means it was achieved is to my reading is irrelevant.

    TBF however Snorri doesn't specifically have the time to test for the nuance of what qualifies to mental state so a lot of interpretation is currently valid.

    Edit : Shit I misread what you wrote and misrembered what I mistype. That's my mistake.
     
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    Evillevi said:
    This is a difference in definition I think. From my POV the negative change in our emotions during the trial qualifies for the mental state requirements. The specific means it was achieved is to my reading is irrelevant.
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    That's not what I'm arguing.

    While yes, the Rune does tell you if your emotions get manipulated, like during the Trial, it does just that : Inform you. It doesn't help you push past the artificially boosted Greed and Anger, and while the increased Bravery might help against Fear, it is an unrelated effect ; It would help against the fear, artificial or not.

    Here's a metaphor that has been stuck in my head for the past day or so : You play Where's Waldo. The rune tell you that Waldo is in the picture, but otherwise doesn't help you find him. At best it's a confirmation of Waldo's presence and that someone didn't Photoshop Waldo out of the picture as a prank.

    EDIT :
    Evillevi said:
    Edit : Shit I misread what you wrote and misrembered what I mistype. That's my mistake.
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    Fair enough, no problem over here!
     
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    R4d6 said:
    That's not what I'm arguing.

    While yes, the Rune does tell you if your emotions get manipulated, like during the Trial, it does just that : Inform you. It doesn't help you push past the artificially boosted Greed and Anger, and while the increased Bravery might help against Fear, it is an unrelated effect ; It would help against the fear, artificial or not.

    Here's a metaphor that has been stuck in my head for the past day or so : You play Where's Waldo. The rune tell you that Waldo is in the picture, but otherwise doesn't help you find him. At best it's a confirmation of Waldo's presence and that someone didn't Photoshop Waldo out of the picture as a prank.
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    Your logic is sound.

    I realize a couple of minutes before you posted that I misread and misrembered the context of your post. That's my bad.
     
    R4d6 said:
    Here's a metaphor that has been stuck in my head for the past day or so : You play Where's Waldo. The rune tell you that Waldo is in the picture, but otherwise doesn't help you find him. At best it's a confirmation of Waldo's presence and that someone didn't Photoshop Waldo out of the picture as a prank.
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    Your analogy is a good one and I see where you're going, but I think you're missing a key piece of the process.

    You play Where's Waldo. The rune tells you that Waldo is in the picture, but otherwise doesn't help you find him.
    But it does mark the aftermarket artwork done by some jackass intending to screw you by making it more difficult to find Waldo.

    And from there, that gives you options, leads, and a measure of evidence you didn't have before to hunt the wretched wazzock down and give it a good dreng-ing. Even more so if you make it one of a large number of possible runic combos.
     
    CanYouMeme said:
    Your analogy is a good one and I see where you're going, but I think you're missing a key piece of the process.

    You play Where's Waldo. The rune tells you that Waldo is in the picture, but otherwise doesn't help you find him.
    But it does mark the aftermarket artwork done by some jackass intending to screw you by making it more difficult to find Waldo.

    And from there, that gives you options, leads, and a measure of evidence you didn't have before to hunt the wretched wazzock down and give it a good dreng-ing. Even more so if you make it one of a large number of possible runic combos.
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    This sounds oddly personal. Did you have a bad experience with Where's Waldo?

    Who hurt you? Was it Waldo, or one of the fake almost Waldos?
     
    watcheye456 said:
    ... Can we make it canonical? as in a character name Waldo being a thing? Could we a chosen of Ranald but it's not this timeline.
    By the sound of if Waldo would be Scavor less shity brother.
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    Durin is Waldo. He didn't actually die, he just kept making his father play hide and seek with him until Thungni got sick of it and told everyone he died so that he would come out to set the record straight.

    Unfortunately for Thungni, Durdo is incredibly dedicated to the bit.
     
    Orion78 said:
    This may not be the time to ask, but what happened to our goats/sheep from the war with the firmir?
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    Right now nothing, if I remember right the decision was to crossbreed into our own herds (that is the herder's who work land claims around the wutroth and various other areas we've claimed). That is very much on the back burner right now, as crossbreeding takes time, plus we did the whole lets go find the hammer deal.
     
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