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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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abominable said:
Snorri can frame it as him doing his bit for his students yet also challenging them to make worthwhile things with said resources. A gift AND a challenge rolled into one.

Maybe we can also offer more adamant to the exceptional and worthy in Khazagar as well. Maybe as the Brotherhood for their opinion of it. The improved smelter is slowly turning Adamant into a more accessible resource for all dawi, so rewarding some away for worthy works or deeds shouldnt be rocking the boat too much, no?
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Cant offer adamant in Khaz brotherhood needs to prove worthy of it. Even Hammerspite had members grousing being given adamant.
 
abominable said:
Methinks we can start off small, see what they do with it. Then larger batches can be given much later when Snorri is suitably assured of their resourceful use of the stuff.
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Just give them Voidstone at that point.

If they want more and/or feel they are worthy to have more Adamant, then they will seek out Voidstone and find it and learn how to make a Greater Dragon Smelter.

Giving them Voidstone + Enough Bars to make a Greater Smelter feels like it is unnecessary for most of their needs and suddenly having 6 bars of it isn't going to necessarily increase their needs.
 
LaggPlaguedDuke said:
I'm worried we won't have enough adamant for the dragon by the time the storm comes if we give the apprentices 30 bars worth.
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The plan is to make two smelters (one with Snorri, one with Karstah) Turn 58, right?

Turn 57: 76 - 30 + 10 = 56
Turn 58: 56 - 20 + 22 = 58
Turn 59: 58 + 22 = 80
Turn 60: 80 + 22 = 102
Turn 61: 102 + 22 = 124
etc.

When do you think the storm is going to come and how much adamant do you need for forging the first part of the dragon?

EDIT: Fixed math.
 
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Was just told this was a valid write-in so I'm throwing this in the ring for the adamant vote:

[ ] [Adamant:] Offer each of them a shard of Voidstone and loan enough Adamant [x10] to make a Greater Smelter to be. The adamant will be repaid once the smelter is built.

_The_Bomb said:
The plan is to make two smelters (one with Snorri, one with Karstah) Turn 58, right?

Turn 57: 76 - 30 + 10 = 56
Turn 58: 56 + 22 = 78
Turn 59: 78 + 22 = 100
Turn 60: 100 + 22 = 122
Turn 61: 122 + 22 = 144
etc.

When do you think the storm is going to come and how much adamant do you need for forging the first part of the dragon?
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Turn 60-61. Thanks for mathing that out, put that way, I think with the adamant coming in from the storm turn we'd mange the 180 something bars needed. With a waytap thrown in it would clear it.
 
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_The_Bomb said:
The plan is to make two smelters (one with Snorri, one with Karstah) Turn 58, right?

Turn 57: 76 - 30 + 10 = 56
Turn 58: 56 + 22 = 78
Turn 59: 78 + 22 = 100
Turn 60: 100 + 22 = 122
Turn 61: 122 + 22 = 144
etc.

When do you think the storm is going to come and how much adamant do you need for forging the first part of the dragon?
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That math is incorrect because it does not account for the Adamant cost of the Greater Smelters.

Turn 57: 76 - 30 + 10 = 56
Turn 58: 56 + 22 - 20 = 58
Turn 59: 58 + 22 = 80
Turn 60: 80 + 22 = 102
Turn 61: 102 + 22 = 124
Etc

Basically, if we take away from our stockpile now, its only doable to build it around turn 61 if we get Waytapping.
 
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[ ] [Adamant:] Offer each of them a shard of Voidstone and loan enough Adamant [x10] to make a Greater Smelter to be. The adamant will be repaid once the smelter is built.

I think this is the best, the shards are not going to be doing anything if they do not also have Adamant and it makes little sense to force them to go though the original design, that is not a reasonable test for dwarfs of their skill, get them up and running as fast as we can and...

BungieONI said:
That math is incorrect because it does not account for the Adamant cost of the Greater Smelters.

Turn 57: 76 - 30 + 10 = 56
Turn 58: 56 + 22 - 20 = 58
Turn 59: 58 + 22 = 80
Turn 60: 80 + 22 = 102
Turn 61: 102 + 22 = 124
Etc

Basically, if we take away from our stockpile now, its doable to build it around turn 61 if we get Waytapping.
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...also get our adamant back so that we have a buffer. That if from waytapping worries me. We do not know what our schedule will look like so it is best to be... heh... conservative. :V
 
soulcake said:
(Roll, Riddle 2: 82 = +20 [Snorri] +10[Karstah] +15[Omake] =127, Crit: 3 +27[Rollover] = 30)
(Total Progress: 57[Previous Progress] +127 +3 =187)
(Raw DC 80/90/105/130/150/180/210)
(DC -40[Yorri])
(Real DC 40/50/65/90/110/140/170)
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Okay that's great Snorri cleared the riddle with Yorri's help that's wonderful.

soulcake said:
Perhaps edged on by Master Yorri's incessant grumbling, you decide to take the time and apply yourself to the task of Thungni's riddle.

The Hammer of the Ancestor isn't just any prize after all.
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Karaz-Kazak-Rhun is an absurdly big deal not just for it's power but for the prestige and chance to study it.

soulcake said:
The memory of the Shadowy wazzok who escaped you is a fresh and bitter pill in the back of your mind, and you aren't much inclined to return to that headspace so soon after if you can help it.
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I like that the Shadow Hag was mentioned it shows how a Grudge can weigh on a Dawi even if it's not a personal one.

soulcake said:
That seems to fit what you've already learned about the Prince from both Myrion and Menliwen. Hell, it's not even alien to you; jostling Thanes trying to win prestige is an old story that's been played out many a time.
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soulcake said:
Myrion makes pains to mention that most of that divide is merely intellectual, and that the Elves are united in purpose for the duration of the war.
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Snorri knows how politics works at this point and is an old hand at them.

soulcake said:
Foreign policy? Bugger that, you had enough on your plate and its name was Khazagar.
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Totally understandable both for not wanting to get involved in foreign policy and already doing to much when it comes to politics.

soulcake said:
"The Riddle wasn't meant for me," Yorri answers easily, "it's meant for you and whoever else Thungni decided to give it to. That Hammer's rightful wielder is among that lot. Not me."

"That's ridiculous," you hear Karstah mutter.

"That's the truth young lady," Yorri responds primly, taking an empty seat for himself. "Only the worthy may wield Her, and I'm not worthy."

"I fail to see how, you're clearly more than skilled enough to be a Runelord," Karstah continues.

"The issue isn't one of skill. But of mentality. Only Durin could be considered worthy enough to outright, but Durin's gone. So Thungni is making do."
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Yorri won't consider himself a valid holder of the hammer for the same reason he got rid of records of himself. Also this once again shows his connection to Durin.

soulcake said:
Have you done enough? You believe so, but now the thought is stuck in your mind and the only way to exercise it is to let it run its course. Of your students in Kraka Drakk, only Karstah has properly worked with Adamant from what you've seen. It isn't as if the others don't know how, they were quick enough to grab that bit of knowledge from you the moment they could, but yet none of them had actually made anything. Why? It's not your business really, but you doubt they'd turn you away?
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Yeah it is kinda weird none of his students really delved deeply into Adamant but it does make sense since Adamant is so costly and hard to make.

soulcake said:
"We've been modelling Thungni incorrectly. Or I suppose, more incorrectly than we'd like. Expecting subterfuge and double-backing despite everything being laid before us."

"Master, I don't mean to question your logic but isn't that the point of a Riddle?"

You snort.

"The complexity and mystery of the Riddle is not found in something so lowly as tricks and misdirection Karstah. No, we're fools for thinking so poorly of the Ancestor. He'll ply you with wordplay, multiple interpretations, and increasingly obtuse complexity aye, but that's the key. The complexity builds. The first reading is the most literal, the most obvious, but the test is seeing if the reader is clever enough to find every subsequent meaning. Each one, I reckon, shall build on the other, culminating into the path that leads us to Karaz-Kazak-Rhun."
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That logic and reasoning actually makes a lot of sense.

soulcake said:
Because I spent an entire day brooding over my life and the way I taught my students you think.

"Because I came to a conclusion of my own. That Thungni is a teacher, and Karaz-Kazak-Rhun a reward for the brightest of His students. This riddle is like everything He shows His kin, is just another lesson to be picked apart and understood."
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Thungni is a teacher and left the riddle to Snorri to teach him so Snorri slipping into that mindset solving it makes sense.

soulcake said:
- [Early 470] the Runesmith Skarri Dolgisson has taken to the field of battle alongside his companion the Branakroki Thunder Wing as the first of Kraka Drakk's Skarr-kazhunki. Mounted warriors that eschew millennia of Dwarfen wisdom; to not only ride upon the back of a beast to war, but to take to the air doing it as well like he's some Elven Princeling. The Zaki is not alone in this endeavour either, somehow wrangling a group of six other madmen and women to join him in the air. Northern strangeness once more shows itself. At the very least he is well armed. Wielding a [T3] Runestaff that calls down lightning and ice, and a [T3] size-shifting Gromril Axe that he either hurls from above or swings in long, loping swings.
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Good on Skarri for pulling it off the absolute madlad, respect to the first six people who followed him as well.

soulcake said:
- [Mid 472] Another Fimir citadel falls at the hands of the High King and Prince Malekith's combined armies. The roar of dragons locked in combat with their enslaved kindred mixed with the thunder of siege weapons and the clang of Gromril, Ithilmar, Steel and Iron were the backing chorus to the Meargh's death knell, her head cleaved from her body by the Axe of Grimnir. The Grudge inches ever closer to proper closure.
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King Snorri and Malekith are kicking ass and taking names.

soulcake said:
- [Mid 472] Skarrin Dolgisson and his mad bunch prove themselves not incapable at least. Whenever the Throng of the High King found itself fighting alone, they have proven themselves perfectly capable of fighting off both airborne and monstrous foes, even if they end up bearing more than a few scars for it. The efficacy of him and his fellow riders is not in question, merely the necessity. Surely, the charge of simple Dawi boots is enough, nay? Harumph!
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Good to see that they've proven themselves.

soulcake said:
- [Early 473] A fleet battle upon the open waves! The vengeful Seadwarfs of Ravnsvake and Dorden cut through the waves to crash upon the unsuspecting mass of Fimir. Having arrived perpendicular to the approaching Fimir, the ships used a combination of fair winds and Brana magic to close the distance and slice through dozens of Fimir ships and slave beasts. Though the battle was bloody, the Dawi fleet retains all of their ships while half of that particular FImir flotilla now feeds the beasts beneath the waves. It is not enough, not until their hulls are but flotsam and driftwood! Or drift-iron one reckons. Bah!
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The Dawi are doing pretty good at sea so far.

soulcake said:
- March complete!
-- Fimir presence in the Underway rendered negligible.
-- The Fimir in the Underway no longer pose a significant threat to your people. Their strategy of dispersing to escape your wrath has rendered the individual fragments easy pickings for the vengeful Throngs of the Holds they have so butchered.
-- The truth of their actions remains conjecture only, as the Meargh left nothing to examine save the trail of ruin she led.
-- The Meargh herself has escaped, despite your best efforts, and remains at large.
--- Grudge: The Shadow Hag, for the personal slaughter of eighty-seven Dawi and orchestrating the deaths of 3,534 Dawi as well as a sum total of 324,982 Gold and 245 Brass pieces in damage both material and emotional to the towns of Khazid-Vran, Durak's Claim, Mingol Ril, Migdhal S...
…and harm to the Holds of Kraka Krum and Kraka Grom, the sentence shall be death. Actions toward setting this Grudge have a chance to gain +1 action worth of progress. +5 Bonus to rolls against the Fimir and +10 Bonus to Rolls against the Shadow Hag,
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It's really good that the Fimir have been kicked out of the Underway.
 
DragonParadox said:
[ ] [Adamant:] Offer each of them a shard of Voidstone and loan enough Adamant [x10] to make a Greater Smelter to be. The adamant will be repaid once the smelter is built.

I think this is the best, the shards are not going to be doing anything if they do not also have Adamant and it makes little sense to force them to go though the original design, that is not a reasonable test for dwarfs of their skill, get them up and running as fast as we can and...



...also get our adamant back so that we have a buffer. That if from waytapping worries me. We do not know what our schedule will look like so it is best to be... heh... conservative. :V
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Yeah.

Now, getting waytapping to a usable level is probably possible.
 
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soulcake said:
From the research she's already done your heir believes the likeliest answer is somewhere in the South and you are inclined to agree, but South is still a big area with equally many hidey-holes for the Clever One to choose from.
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Indeed, basically everywhere is south of Drakk.
soulcake said:
Actions toward setting this Grudge have a chance to gain +1 action worth of progress
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How does this interact with the other Fimir grudge?
soulcake said:
-- New Rune unlocked! Rune of Ironskin [Talismanic]
-- The helmet seems to be an experimental piece, stretching
-- Master of the Odd [9/15] > [11/15]
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Lost your sentence here.
BungieONI said:
That math is incorrect because it does not account for the Adamant cost of the Greater Smelters.

Turn 57: 76 - 30 + 10 = 56
Turn 58: 56 + 22 - 20 = 58
Turn 59: 58 + 22 = 80
Turn 60: 80 + 22 = 102
Turn 61: 102 + 22 = 124
Etc

Basically, if we take away from our stockpile now, its only doable to build it around turn 61 if we get Waytapping.
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What if we just make a smaller one. Bloodthirster size is plenty big.
 
soulcake said:
[Early 471] The town of Khazid Korr was assailed by a rowdy group of trolls wishing to storm and ransack the Brewery which was the town's pride, and slaughtered the Dwarfs defending their homes. The town's last living elder ordered the women and children to be evacuated while he and those who elected to remain would hold back the Trolls. The survivors who reached the next settlement spoke, however, of great bursts of light flaring up and the thundering of the earth from the town as they retreated. When a muster of warriors was finally dispatched to the town they found both what they expected and oddness in equal measure. Bodies of Trolls, crushed to paste or gored through were scattered all over the burnt ruins, while the bodies of the defenders had seemingly all been dragged to the center of town
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Huh, what could have done this? Humans with wizards?
 
Wiggy said:
Huh, what could have done this? Humans with wizards?
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Sounds like Earth elementals to me... which come to think of it could be fen beasts, but I cannot see what a bunch of druids would be doing out here randomly. Where would their tribes be? The only ones we found (dead) were in the Fimir City and I do not think enough of them could have escaped alive to kill a whole troupe of trolls able to take a dwarf town.
 
Wiggy said:
Huh, what could have done this? Humans with wizards?
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DragonParadox said:
Sounds like Earth elementals to me... which come to think of it could be fen beasts, but I cannot see what a bunch of druids would be doing out here randomly. Where would their tribes be? The only ones we found (dead) were in the Fimir City and I do not think enough of them could have escaped alive to kill a whole troupe of trolls able to take a dwarf town.
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The Mammoths can use Hysh, so I figure its them.

Dark as Silver said:
What if we just make a smaller one. Bloodthirster size is plenty big.
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Bloodthirster size is not sufficient for my design goals. And that's all I need to say on the matter until its actually time to vote on the design. Which'll be pretty soon, given the turn's over and I'll be presenting the design on turn 57.
 
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Wiggy said:
Huh, what could have done this? Humans with wizards?
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DragonParadox said:
Sounds like Earth elementals to me... which come to think of it could be fen beasts, but I cannot see what a bunch of druids would be doing out here randomly. Where would their tribes be? The only ones we found (dead) were in the Fimir City and I do not think enough of them could have escaped alive to kill a whole troupe of trolls able to take a dwarf town.
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It's Mammoths. The Trolls were crushed and gored. That's pretty telling wounds. Add that to respect for the dead and being in-land, it's highly likely to be the Mammoths. They have magic users of their own.

And we've been getting hints of their activity on the rumors for some time now.
 
@soulcake , can we offer one time Adamant "grant" as a test, with the subsequent offer of yearly Adamant if they impress Snorri with what they do with it? I think it would be fitting.
 
Aside from the father daughter time going toghter gives Snorii something that most other Runelords probably won't have:
- the greatest work master can make: an heir
 
BungieONI said:
Bloodthirster size is not sufficient for my design goals. And that's all I need to say on the matter until its actually time to vote on the design. Which'll be pretty soon, given the turn's over and I'll be presenting the design on turn 57.
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Erm... no thats kinda dumb.
Bloodthirster would already be huge, and if you're saying that we need to plan out our expenditure to exceed that, then can you justify why your plan requires more than that. Even if its not the entire plan, why is it not enough.

Multi turn plans are an unpleasant necessity of complex quests. Asking us to support multi turn plans without telling us what they are until later is just wanting to play quests on offline mode.
E:
aceraptor said:
It's Mammoths. The Trolls were crushed and gored. That's pretty telling wounds. Add that to respect for the dead and being in-land, it's highly likely to be the Mammoths. They have magic users of their own.

And we've been getting hints of their activity on the rumors for some time now.
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I agree Mammoths are by far the most likely, however Thundertusks are probably also on the possibility list.
 
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