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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Alratan said:
So, in terms of Khazagar prep, I can see three main possible focuses.

Movement of Things, to get an improved Rune of Siphoning to apply structurally. This may give a small boost to crafting inside the structure. However, Khazagar isn't primarily built to be a place to make runes, that's Vragni's guildhall, it's a place to exchange knowledge and perform research.

Mind of Things, to develop runes that improve the storage and transfer of relevant knowledge. Directly relevant to Khazagar's purpose, but also potentially too radical. An improved structural Master Rune of Brotherhood would be a very interesting thing to have on the building/rooms. Not all things useful for a runesmith to know are themselves magical. For example, bringing in an elven linguist to teach Eltharin would probably work.

Extra-sensory, to develop a structural rune that allows everyone inside the building to see the Winds. This would be an enormous flex and be an enormous draw for researching runesmiths. Would probably do more than anything else to make Khazagar a success at its core job of speeding up rune development and collaboration on that.

It's hard to say before we know the number of actions, but my current preference is for Extra-sensory. It would be an enormous advertisement for Khazagar, and would make it much harder for people to criticise it, because yes, Khazagar is a big change to how runesmiths work, but the Rune of Windsight makes a big change almost inevitable, and we can link the two changes together in the public mind making it much harder to object that Khazagar without rejecting the Rune of Windsight we first unveiled on it.

It would take far too much work; but a structure with the Master Rune of Thungni; improved Rune of Siphoning, and improved Rune of Windsight would be ideal for Khazagar. It's impossible though. Improved Windsight, Improved Siphoning; and Ancestor Rune of Thungni might just be possible though.
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I like the idea of an extra-sensory structural rune that lets everyone see the Winds, but I am not sure this is necessary. At the end of the day what we have here is a simple rune not a Master Rune. You could have apprentices churning these out until every runesmith in the Karaz Ankor has one of them. Sure it might be that a potential upgrade would be a master rune and thus need to be projected , but we have no way of knowing that will be the case.
 
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Clarifying some stuff so sort of #DiscordDump

Windsight is Prosthetic only, since its derived from the Rune of Forged sight and because the actual process involves giving you an "eye" that can visualize the Winds as other races do, and have updated accordingly.

Discord said:
Though @Soulcake135, wanted to ask if the upgrade to Soul of Earth and Cult of Grungni +1 our reward for Chainwright, or are we still waiting for it to be revealed?
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Soul is now there because it doesn't matter. Cult and Title turn you finish Khazagar

Discord said:
@Soulcake135 A clarification please - is the action

[ ] RIddle Me This

A one time action,where we get only one shot to solve this riddle in the entire quest or is it repeatable, where we can attempt the riddle repeatedly?
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Be weird to be one time, so yes repeatable
 
soulcake said:
Windsight is Prosthetic only, since its derived from the Rune of Forged sight and because the actual process involves giving you an "eye" that can visualize the Winds as other races do, and have updated accordingly.
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I trust that Yorri is patient enough to not tear out his own eye for this however I do think he would if he's unable to discover a talismanic variant.
 
I am completely against sharing windsight outside of our apprentices for a long time. Want to pick all the low hanging fruits that it lets us see before we even think about sharing it out.
 
fictionfan said:
I am completely against sharing windsight outside of our apprentices for a long time. Want to pick all the low hanging fruits that it lets us see before we even think about sharing it out.
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I disagree. When we have a perfected version we should release it to the Burudin at the very least so that it gives them a kick in the ass and gets them to push their runecraft to new heights with the new path forward. The benefits to Karaz Ankor outweighs any gain that Snorri may gain from being first mover.
 
fictionfan said:
I am completely against sharing windsight outside of our apprentices for a long time. Want to pick all the low hanging fruits that it lets us see before we even think about sharing it out.
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That would go against more or less everything Snorris new approach to runecraft stands for. Discovering something this useful and critical as this, and then hoarding it for a long time would seem anathema to him.
 
Dark as Silver said:
I trust that Yorri is patient enough to not tear out his own eye for this however I do think he would if he's unable to discover a talismanic variant.
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There were tests early on when Snorri was learning the Forged Senses where Yorri had Snorri give himself extra senses, so this falls under the same - Yorri just giving himself a contraption over or beside one of his existing eyes. No eye-ripping needed, at least based on that scene.
 
This is going into a Runiversity course called Wind Theory 101 and it will run for 5 turns before one dwarf picks it, out of morbid curiosity about why Snorri is so determined to teach atmospheric dynamics to a race that lives underground.
 
fictionfan said:
I am completely against sharing windsight outside of our apprentices for a long time. Want to pick all the low hanging fruits that it lets us see before we even think about sharing it out.
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Echoing the disagreement here, too. While I do think we shouldn't share it immediately, that's because it's weak and unfinished, not because I think we should grab the low-hanging fruits with it first. The sheer scale of the benefit that possessing windsight can give to the Runesmithing profession cannot be understated. This is literally the single most important thing Snorri has discovered in-quest, and might even top learning to make whatever Adamant turns into in terms of potential discoveries. And besides which, hoarding knowledge kind of goes against Snorri's whole ethos when it comes to Runesmithing- he's generally very open to trades (with peers, at least), spreads valuable runes that can benefit dwarves as a whole freely, and is building a whole Runiversity where the central focus is spreading knowledge. It'd be one thing if this was a T4 master run or something, but it's not- this is a simple, basic rune, that once complete any Runesmith could probably learn and use.
 
Now that we have Windsight, can we take a look at our White Wuthroth trees to figure out what's going on with them? Or does that need the Master Rune first?
 
NSMS said:
Echoing the disagreement here, too. While I do think we shouldn't share it immediately, that's because it's weak and unfinished, not because I think we should grab the low-hanging fruits with it first. The sheer scale of the benefit that possessing windsight can give to the Runesmithing profession cannot be understated. This is literally the single most important thing Snorri has discovered in-quest, and might even top learning to make whatever Adamant turns into in terms of potential discoveries. And besides which, hoarding knowledge kind of goes against Snorri's whole ethos when it comes to Runesmithing- he's generally very open to trades (with peers, at least), spreads valuable runes that can benefit dwarves as a whole freely, and is building a whole Runiversity where the central focus is spreading knowledge. It'd be one thing if this was a T4 master run or something, but it's not- this is a simple, basic rune, that once complete any Runesmith could probably learn and use.
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I agree with the idea of spreading Windsight, but I do think its plausible we won't get a regular rune for the completed version. I.e we'll just have this color-sight rune and a Master Rune of Witchsight, for example.

I'd still want to share it out in that case, but my point is that we may want to temper our expectations in regards to the proliferation of the most completed form.
 
soulcake said:
Then that fragile hope burned and died when, near the end, you read through fifty or so pages of a Runelord describing the best possible way to slow cook a whole lamb, all while not-too-subtly belittling the opinion of another Burudin member by using their cooking method as the ultimate example of how not to do things. Followed by another dozen written from said other member very long windedly and thoroughly calling the previous writer slack jawed, tasteless hermit who hadn't had good Lamb since he moved out of his parent's house. Followed by a long and winding descent into despair as more and more Burudin members seemed to be brought in, willingly or not, onto the discussion by both writers, with no sign of the debate stopping or cooling down either.

If you could liken it to anything, anything at all, it would be comparable to the transcribed conversations of Clan Elders. The mind numbing banality and pettiness of old Dawi with free time and an opinion juxtaposed by the wisdom those same Dwarfs carried and a reminder that their opinions, if ever said publicly, were liable to shift the tone and direction of the Runesmith community in their immense sphere of influence.

It shocks you, and in some ways leaves you relieved that Master Yorri was more incorrect than correct this time.
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I love this. Snorri's thoughts are so very similar to many hopeful dreamers' views of what the internet would be like, before they experienced the reality. Granted, these are all still master runesmiths, so it's not quite the eternal september, but the Dawi's stone-souled stubbornness and the time to create feuds and entrench opinions must make for delightfully inane arguments.

I shudder to think of what a true, widespread dwarven internet would look like.

As for long range communication, some people mentioned magical telegraphs, but the request seems to be asking for something closer to spanreeds from the stormlight archive. Maybe a linking or quantum entanglement rune?
 
Rhadamanthine said:
As for long range communication, some people mentioned magical telegraphs, but the request seems to be asking for something closer to spanreeds from the stormlight archive. Maybe a linking or quantum entanglement rune?
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The request is technically from or inspired by Snorri Whitebeard. So for messages between Karaks something centralised rather than a individual item is probably a plus actually.
And the issue with the entanglement idea is that no matter how you slice it, no one's offered a solution that doesn't violate the rule of form.

Of course the issue with an optical telegraph is that it's simple enough somebody else may have thought about it already.
 
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What Snorri Whitebeard/Alaric/Angkra is probably looking for is something like a Palantir. The reason I say that is that from the War of Vengeance novels, something like Palantiri apparently existed - magical mirrors that enabled communication over vast distances.

Something that securely, reliably and quickly transfers messages because its a mirror that lets you look through it and talk to someone else who also has a mirror directly.
 
Rhadamanthine said:
I shudder to think of what a true, widespread dwarven internet would look like.

As for long range communication, some people mentioned magical telegraphs, but the request seems to be asking for something closer to spanreeds from the stormlight archive. Maybe a linking or quantum entanglement rune?
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Long range communication is the first step. Could someone give an estimate on how much paper would be required to record all the threads on SV? Because that could very well happen with communication and the rune of transcription.
 
BungieONI said:
What Snorri Whitebeard/Alaric/Angkra is probably looking for is something like a Palantir. The reason I say that is that from the War of Vengeance novels, something like Palantiri apparently existed - magical mirrors that enabled communication over vast distances.

Something that securely, reliably and quickly transfers messages because its a mirror that lets you look through it and talk to someone else who also has a mirror directly.
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And those mirrors were explicitly a joint elf dwarf invention.
So it's an indeterminate time away but not soon, and we have no leads on where to begin whereas Secrets of Light is something we can start on next turn.

I agree it's probably what he imagined, but honestly is a visual inspection of the recipient more secure than a code only the recipient knows?
Codes can be cracked and people can be disguised, neither is perfect.
Perfect security would be a magic post box that drops a parcel that is runicly locked at the destination postbox instantly.
 
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