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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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If we do end up going for all of Durin's challenges then I'd like to submit an old idea of mine for the Runestaff.

Dutch said:
A runestaff just barely taller than yourself, made to commemorate your people's past, which even now is passing into myth. Made out of a solid adamant shaft covered by Elder Shard Wyrm Hide, the staff invokes the appearance of the very earth itself. With only the collar on top and ferrule below hinting at its adamantine nature. The Shard Wyrm's energy channels fit neatly over the inscriptions covering the staff's shaft, ready to channel a new kind of energy and show the world the proud history of your people. On one side the very top of the staff depicts High King Whitebeard holding court, the mighty throngs and holds of the Karaz Ankor, the current prosperity of your kin, this approaching golden age. As one glances lower the tale changes. Grimnir's march north, Gazul's march East, the Incursion, Grungni sitting on the Throne of Power, the birth of an empire, Thungni finding the Ankor Bryn, Valaya raising Karaz-a-Karak, Mogrim and Smednir teaching your people, the migration north. At the very bottom rests an image of some of your people's darkest days. A depiction of the Remit of Zorn in all its disgracefulness. On the other side of the staff the tale continues. The very bottom depicts the founding of Zorn, the first true Karak. More of your people's past reveals itself as the viewer glances upward, settlements shrinking and metalwork growing cruder the closer one gets to the top. Before ending with a breathtaking depiction of your people being carved from the mountains themselves. This is your history, the birth of your people and your eternal empire. A legacy strong and lasting. The tale of an enduring people, born from stone.
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DragonParadox said:
At this juncture I doubt we could do anything, we have no way to know there is a problem... because there isn't one so far other than Morathi being a Slaaneshi cultist (sort of kind of ). Once the Cult of Pleasure fires up in Ulthuan we might get an inkling that something is wrong, but even so Snori is not an investigator. Our best moment to act might be after the Sundering, if we figure out what a Druchi is and what they are doing the doomed envoys to the Phoenix King might be more circumspect and thus avoid beard shaving
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I call bull.
Mal found Circlet of Iron on an expedition to the north.
Thanks, in no small part to us/Giftgiver, the Norsca, and I'd argue more easterly than that thanks to the eastern dwarves not falling (again, thanks in some small part to Snorri) is much better explored and less perilous.
And, well just managing his resentment, pride and anger in more productive ways could do wonders for him not falling.
Hell, we are already a Rhunelord (in)famous for making artifacts for notable Dawongr.
Would it really come off as inconceivable for us to make something for one named such by the high king?
Not on our own, but I can see Whitebeard putting in a commission.
We already have more contact and interaction with the Elgi than almost any other rhunesmith in Karaz Ankor.
 
yannoshka said:
So...
Here is some timeline consideration and comparison to original timeline that I consider worth making a note of.
Now, @soulcake please do chime in and correct me if I get/have got something incorrectly.

Currently, that is to mean, as of the end of this turn and the beginning of the next one it should be the year 394 after the pillars of Valaya.
Malekith and Snorri Whitebeard meet somewhere around year 404 after the pillars ± a couple of years, during the campaigns to clear out the last significant remaining chaos armies.
Now, due to the North holding out much better during the original Chaos incursion, the situation vis-à-vis chaos could be changed enough to have butterflied that away, but seeing as Grimnir's fate barrel got altered, I somehow doubt that.

So, people, and various unidentified entities habituating this bit of the interwebs, with some degree of trepidation I call forth that we bring up the general state of readiness up to alert state: Cinabar.
Pale red, but possible danger is visible over the horizon.

The spiky edgelord elfboy is not corrupted yet, though there are some indications he had always been a bit of a dickwafle.
But, that is beside the point. The point being, whatever the blueshitbirb might think, Mal's fate is not yet carved in stone and atrocities.
So, can Snorri (Giftgiver) affect anything that could, potentially, alter the direction his life would take?
Can we prevent the break between the elder races?
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So, the key thing here is that Malkeith seems to have had the final push from being overly entitled and a bit of dick to being obsessed with power after donning the Circlet of Iron. That's what showed him the visions of Chaos victory that convinced him to abandon his long game of public heroism to earn the Phoenix Crown and that he instead needed to take over right now, and also persuaded him to use dark magic (or at least use it a lot more).

Now, he found the Circlet of Iron in a pre-Coming of Chaos city in the Chaos Wastes north of the Old World. In order for him to find it he needs to be there in the first place, which was because he went exploring/scouting north while leading an expeditionary army in support of the dwarves, helping them clear our remnant chaos creatures.

However, the only dwarven hold that he could have gone that far north to reinforce/clear the surroundings of was Karak Dum. In our timeline Karak Dum no longer exists. The far northern and north eastern holds seem secure and seem to be full capable of purging the local monsters, so won't need to ask for elven reinforcements.

More generally, the dwarves don't seem like they need the assistance of eleven expeditionary armies yet. They haven't cleared the lowlands; but it seems likely they will without elven assistance. If the elves don't come to help conquer the lowlands, they're not going to be there to stay to build their colonies, and the elves will have fewer colonies in the Old World and more elsewhere, which means any War of the Beard will be less intense.

There's a bunch of other stuff about the changing patterns of trade that earlier dwarven boats might effect that would effect elven colonisation as well.
 
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yannoshka said:
I call bull.
Mal found Circlet of Iron on an expedition to the north.
Thanks, in no small part to us/Giftgiver, the Norsca, and I'd argue more easterly than that thanks to the eastern dwarves not falling (again, thanks in some small part to Snorri) is much better explored and less perilous.
And, well just managing his resentment, pride and anger in more productive ways could do wonders for him not falling.
Hell, we are already a Rhunelord (in)famous for making artifacts for notable Dawongr.
Would it really come off as inconceivable for us to make something for one named such by the high king?
Not on our own, but I can see Whitebeard putting in a commission.
We already have more contact and interaction with the Elgi than almost any other rhunesmith in Karaz Ankor.
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Potentially yeah. Still requires us meeting him and given the Wild Beastman Fun Times in the west its going to take a rather long time for Malekith to come anywhere near the Far North.

If he shows up in the West to fight the beastmen with Whitebeard and we want to work with Malekith by giving him something, then we'd need a commission from the Whitebeard for exactly that. Which would in turn require Standing with the Whitebeard, so stuff like the Call to the Heir projects.

But all of this isn't super imminent yet because we have a long, long time before Malekith heads north.
 
Dutch said:
If we do end up going for all of Durin's challenges then I'd like to submit an old idea of mine for the Runestaff.
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The Design is great but we have little to rune with it iirc. Especially if we want to make it hyperpowerful as it would need to equal a staff crafted by a God.

Breaking the rule of three thought, thats within relatively easy reach.
 
BungieONI said:
Potentially yeah. Still requires us meeting him and given the Wild Beastman Fun Times in the west its going to take a rather long time for Malekith to come anywhere near the Far North.

If he shows up in the West to fight the beastmen with Whitebeard and we want to work with Malekith by giving him something, then we'd need a commission from the Whitebeard for exactly that. Which would in turn require Standing with the Whitebeard, so stuff like the Call to the Heir projects.

But all of this isn't super imminent yet because we have a long, long time before Malekith heads north.
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The biggest potential butterfly is Snorri being successful enough that Malkieth never needs to head north, but instead goes east and meets the sky titans or south and meets the Lizardmen.

Edit: or that dwarven explorers find and loot recover the items from the pre-Coming of Chaos city first. I can see this happening with more prosperous and powerful northern dwarves following in Grimnir's footsteps and trying to purge/contain chaos more.
 
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I don't think we can be absolutely sure that the circlet was or will always be in the same place, or that there can't be other chaos artifacts around that can do similar things.

If the corruption of Malkieth is something the chaos gods are really invested in then there will be more angles of attack.
 
pucflek said:
The Design is great but we have little to rune with it iirc. Especially if we want to make it hyperpowerful as it would need to equal a staff crafted by a God.

Breaking the rule of three thought, thats within relatively easy reach.
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We can possibly cheat. If we break the Rule of Three we have an extra slot to play with, which possibly also means four rune combos that can then be compressed into superior Master Runes.

Down the line, Azakit may mean we can manufacture superior engineered reagents, which may also help. If we can make T5 dune metal through similar means, it's likely to be a perfect reagent for the Master Rune of Thungni as well.

Avarice said:
I don't think we can be absolutely sure that the circlet was or will always be in the same place, or that there can't be other chaos artifacts around that can do similar things.

If the corruption of Malkieth is something the chaos gods are really invested in then there will be more angles of attack.
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That's true. The harder they have to work the better it is for us though.

Note that the Circlet of Iron may not be a Chaos Artifact. It may be an Old One artifact that isn't healthy for mortal minds.

There's also probably a limited number of such super-artifacts.

There are also other things we can do to make things harder for the Chaos Gods in general. Expanding the Waystone network further north to shrink the Chaos Wastes and to reduce ambient magic levels is an obvious one. There's also the longer shot possibilities that Happening of Things and Wardstones and the like might lead to runes that block the ability of Aethyric entities to see near people or locations. It's much harder for the Chaos Gods to manipulate events if they don't know as much about what's going on.
 
soulcake said:
When there are no tests left, when there is no doubt that can be dragged up, when your certainty is as sure as Gromril, you are left standing in your sanctum whispering a single sentence to a man long dead yet whose shadow looms second only to his Father's.

"Durin, I have found it..."
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The first door through Durin's Consternation has been found. Greatness and glory await on the other side.
 
Dragonofelder said:
Honestly I'm a bit worried madness also waits. Snorri is peeking into things the Dawi weren't made for, and it might end up bad for him, especially if some gibblies use it as an attack vector. Anyone else feel the same?
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That's presumably something that Snorri would build safeguards for in the completed version of the rune.
 
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Dragonofelder said:
Honestly I'm a bit worried madness also waits. Snorri is peeking into things the Dawi weren't made for, and it might end up bad for him, especially if some gibblies use it as an attack vector. Anyone else feel the same?
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eh, better then that one Dwarf who put a rune on Warpstone because nothing he find could hold the rune

now that was madness

lighting up the room to let every one see what the fuck they are doing is a good enough price if we do end up going crazy from seeing shit we aren't meant to see
 
SuperHeavy said:
Well I am hype for us finally figuring out how to combine magic properly into our runecrafting. Now we just have to wait for the entirety of dwarf society to stop having a meltdown now that the Ancestors are not there to hold their hand.
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Dwarf society should just chill. Their Ancestors are just away to the store for milk and cigarettes.
There's just... there's just a really long queue.
Ambit said:
...I predict that Yorri is either going to tear out his own eye or give himself a third eye.
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"Master Yorri, when I handed you my runic prosthetic eye, it wasn't for you to rip out one of your organic eyes!

It was so you could see the rune and consider making something that can be applied to a transparent lens, probably inset into something that has metal struts that hook around one's ears.

Now give that back and I promise you, if any priestess of Valaya ever ask me what happened here, I'm telling them the truth"
 
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soulcake said:
When there are no tests left,
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Please tell me some tests were properly blinded (heh). Confirming that be actually sees reality instead of imagination and confirmation bias can be tricky then the object of observation is not entirely real XD

soulcake said:
Which begs the question
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Edit suggestion: raises the question.

"Begging the question" means something different (a fallacy where your argument somehow assumes that the conclusion is correct instead of actually supporting it).

soulcake said:
a metal that was actively conducive to the Winds?
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Is that Ithilmar?
 
Hmm, which tree did we get the Rune of Direction from?

Because increasing the "transmission range" of that rune that and using transcription might work for the communication issue.

You have a pen with the rune of transcription, paired with the improved rune of direction.

Put the pen in another Karak, and start dictating letters to the rune of direction.

Bypass physical space by sending letters through the Glittering realm.
 
As wondrous as pure adamant will be, the gains in alchemy knowledge are the real thing.

The new materials that the alchemy can create have the potential to revolutionize several professions beyond runesmithing.

Woodcarvers having access to materials superior to wutroth, brewers getting more potent ingredients to experiment with, etc.
 
Some other thoughts on the update:

The lack of acuity of the Windsight eye may not just be down to the Windsight rune being incomplete. Unlike the Rune of Forged Limb, which grant above average abilities, the Runes of Forged Senses just reproduce average dwarven senses. I think it's likely we'll get better results with an improved Rune of the Forged Eye. I had hoped that Mind of Things would do this automatically, but as it hasn't, my hope is that Secrets of Light will. It's not the cheapest at three discounted to two actions, but it's very likely worth it before making the the Windsight Eye V2. It might also be useful for the communication Challenge.

Upgrading the Rune of Windsight to be a Rune of Spirt/Witchsight and so being able to perceive non-Wind supernatural phenomena would be very useful, particularly for the Movement of Things research. It would probably be a lot easier to upgrade the Rune of Siphoning if we can perceive Deep Magic.

If there are any runes that allow you to see through matter, they would be incredibly useful to use alongside the Rune of Windsight.

Meargh eyes are probably going to be a pretty limited resource, so we have an incentive to upgrade the Rune of Forged Eye/Windsight before using them in that way.

If we ever learn the Rune of Sorcery, combining it with the Rune of Windsight would potentially be very interesting.

Can we share our incomplete Windsight eye design with our ex-apprentices, like we collaborate with Yori? Fjolla's studies of light may be helpful with the eye itself, and Snerra's general genius and specific mastery of casting runes may synergise very nicely here. I'm saying this not just to advance our project, but even an incomplete Windsight eye would be phenomenally useful for their own research. I'm not talking about sharing it outside the lineage yet, that would be very inappropriate for an incomplete rune, but I can see this as being important enough to bring in Snorri's own pupils. Particularly Snerra, as she's a runelord herself,

On the challenges:

I wonder if the research into the Albionese artifacts would help with the growing limb. There's a hint that the armour was grown from a single block of metal rather than conventionally forged, and things like the Cauldron would seem aligned with the project.

On the weaponised mountain challenge, the Movement of Things 5b would seem like a possibility if you can plug the mountain into a Waystone/Storm of Magic and have a structural rune that makes elementals animate and build bodies from the fabric of the mountain.

Azakit seems like it has a long, long way to go. I suspect that we might want more elven assistance, better Aonoquean, and better Windsight before we invest further.

Horium said:
As wondrous as pure adamant will be, the gains in alchemy knowledge are the real thing.

The new materials that the alchemy can create have the potential to revolutionize several professions beyond runesmithing.

Woodcarvers having access to materials superior to wutroth, brewers getting more potent ingredients to experiment with, etc.
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That's very true, and is particularly revolutionary when combined with an improved Rune of Windsight, as it means that brewers and smiths and the like can become true alchemists.

Rather than just using trial and error to learn recipes to combine magically transmuted ingredients to produce a desirable product, they'll be able to perceive the magic in the ingredients, see what happens to the magic during the reactions, and see what the magic is in the end product.
 
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Just a random idle thought but what would Snorri gain if he used the Windsight eye on Valaya's axe?

I mean other than being completely blinded by the sheer potency of the Runes on the Ancestor's weapon of course. My random thought is that he may be able to perhaps see a hint on how to progress pass Adament if his theory that he needs to infuse the metal with something to make it better is correct.
 
lin4t said:
Just a random idle thought but what would Snorri gain if he used the Windsight eye on Valaya's axe?

I mean other than being completely blinded by the sheer potency of the Runes on the Ancestor's weapon of course. My random thought is that he may be able to perhaps see a hint on how to progress pass Adament if his theory that he needs to infuse the metal with something to make it better is correct.
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Currently, probably nothing, as the Rune as it is can't perceive the energy of Runes. When we've improved it, and/or built as super version charged up with every high tier reagent and crafting bonus we can get our hands on, things might be different.

It would be interesting to take a peek at the Rune of Eternity while wearing v2 or v3 of the Windsight eye as well. Possibly a version that also has the Rune of Fate (if we know it by then)
 
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