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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Kirron 999 said:
Maybe the Dumi? You know, the chaos dwarves who are actively trying to spread across dwarf society in such a way that Gazul had to reformat a part of his cult to be the Dawi equivalent of Witch Hunters, even if it was on the down low? Who we've seen use bastardised runes previously and know are currently looking to find a way to regain some form of runesmithing among their cult after we wiped out their own sorcerer-smiths at Dum?

There are genuine concerns about spreading this knowledge like that because of them. It wouldn't have been an issue in the OTL as they had their separate city and sorcerer-smiths regardless but now we've deprived them of both, and we don't want to be the one responsible even tangentially for letting them regain their cursed chaos runecrafting, which was the main thing that made mortal chaos armies effective through the Hellcannons and Knight/Champion equipment. As is, chaos' only effective thing right now is outright magic and daemons and we have the potential to keep it that way, so long as we don't give the chaos dwarf cults any in on runecrafting.
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no books would only slow them down as they are known to kidnap and torture to gain information
 
If we got Chaos Dwarfs in our home they can literally just listen to the lectures on runesmithing to learn runesmithing.

That would be, in all likelyhood, way easier than trying to get into whatever heavily guarded library vault the books would be stored in.

And again. We can rig the books to explodes based on a wealth of criteria.
 
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Dutch said:
If we got Chaos Dwarfs in our home they can literally just listen to the lectures on runesmithing to learn runesmithing.
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Pretty sure that one, no ordained Master Runesmiths would join the Chaos Dwarfs, and two, pretty sure we have ways to limit the lectures to ONLY Runesmiths, both Journeymen and Masters alike, and segregate them too, or smth.
 
I kinda didn't mention them as they just need to become a runesmith to well corrupt runic knowledge, which kinda makes a moot point on should we, or should we not write stuff in our books.
 
Dutch said:
If we got Chaos Dwarfs in our home they can literally just listen to the lectures on runesmithing to learn runesmithing.

That would be, in all likelyhood, way easier than trying to get into whatever heavily guarded library vault the books would be stored in.

And again. We can rig the books to explodes based on a wealth of criteria.
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Again, it's not about our books, it's about the precedent it sets. We can control our security, we can't ensure the security of every runesmith that thinks writing things down might be a good idea is up to snuff.
 
rokafella said:
I kinda didn't mention them as they just need to become a runesmith to well corrupt runic knowledge, which kinda makes a moot point on should we, or should we not write stuff in our books.
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We have in-quest examples of bastardised, stolen Runesmithing - remember back in Dum, and the sacrilege there? We have to keep in mind that it is something the Furundar will actively try to do, and with them taking a more subversive role in dwarven society in this timeline, constant vigilance is required.
 
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Hmm, perhaps we should give some lectures and whatnot on how to Defense in Depth? Though I suppose our Rhuniversity's own defences and whatnot would show them well enough. Hopefully they aren't dunderheads about it, nya.
 
kinglugia said:
They'll need to possess The Gift first, and then get picked up by a Frurndar Sorcerer instead of a Master Runesmith.
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That or, if in the case of one master engineer show's, just really hate everything about that one rival you have and will resort to literal anything to kill them. (With a helpful sprinkling of Frundar nonsense to help make such things possible in the first place.)
 
Xepheria said:
We have in-quest examples of bastardised, stolen Runesmithing - remember back in Dum, and the sacrilege there? We have to keep in mind that it is something the Furundar will actively try to do, and with them taking a more subversive role in dwarven society in this timeline, constant vigilance is required.
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yep ic example of no books doing nothing to stop knowledge theft, and could always normalize it to be only runelords being the one to write books?
 
That could certainly help, but if we are going anymore talk about the Frundar then it could just degenerate into-Look! That fine dwarf woman who gives treats to Garazi was actually a Frundar all along!!!
 
Dutch said:
If we got Chaos Dwarfs in our home they can literally just listen to the lectures on runesmithing to learn runesmithing.

That would be, in all likelyhood, way easier than trying to get into whatever heavily guarded library vault the books would be stored in.

And again. We can rig the books to explodes based on a wealth of criteria.
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We can screen people in our own home. We can rig our own books to explode. We can't rig Master/Journyman/Apprentice Bolgi Gunnardson's books to explode, and realistically, it is Master/Journyman/Apprentice Gunnardson who is both going to be the one to take the step/mistake of writing actual runelore down in a book and be the one the competent Dawi-Zharr would actually look into trying to steal/interrogate runelore from.

There's also the fact that only pre-ordained/studied Runesmiths of some stripe will be studying at the workshop, we wont just let some random who knows nothing sit in on the lessons. In which case, the infiltrator would already be a corrupted Runesmith, or a chaos dwarf who learnt from another Runesmith years before coming near us. We aren't the point of the failure, it's the Runesmiths we'd inspire to write down lore and teach others so much more freely that are the point failure, but with how dwarf society works their failure gets indirectly traced back to us, same way as the crafter of a legendary weapon is only slightly less respected for his relationship with the weapon than it's greatest wielder is.

Anyways, it's 1am here, and I have a train to catch at 7:45, so I have to get some sleep while I can.
 
Kirron 999 said:
We can screen people in our own home. We can rig our own books to explode. We can't rig Master/Journyman/Apprentice Bolgi Gunnardson's books to explode, and realistically, it is Master/Journyman/Apprentice Gunnardson who is both going to be the one to take the step/mistake of writing actual runelore down in a book and be the one the competent Dawi-Zharr would actually look into trying to steal/interrogate runelore from.

There's also the fact that only pre-ordained/studied Runesmiths of some stripe will be studying at the workshop, we wont just let some random who knows nothing sit in on the lessons. In which case, the infiltrator would already be a corrupted Runesmith, or a chaos dwarf who learnt from another Runesmith years before coming near us. We aren't the point of the failure, it's the Runesmiths we'd inspire to write down lore and teach others so much more freely that are the point failure, but with how dwarf society works their failure gets indirectly traced back to us, same way as the crafter of a legendary weapon is only slightly less respected for his relationship with the weapon than it's greatest wielder is.

Anyways, it's 1am here, and I have a train to catch at 7:45, so I have to get some sleep while I can.
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8:30 odd p.m. for me, Yeah I would agree with taking a nap, see ya tomorrow for another round of talks, discussions, and arguments!
 
Kirron 999 said:
We can screen people in our own home. We can rig our own books to explode. We can't rig Master/Journyman/Apprentice Bolgi Gunnardson's books to explode, and realistically, it is Master/Journyman/Apprentice Gunnardson who is both going to be the one to take the step/mistake of writing actual runelore down in a book and be the one the competent Dawi-Zharr would actually look into trying to steal/interrogate runelore from.

There's also the fact that only pre-ordained/studied Runesmiths of some stripe will be studying at the workshop, we wont just let some random who knows nothing sit in on the lessons. In which case, the infiltrator would already be a corrupted Runesmith, or a chaos dwarf who learnt from another Runesmith years before coming near us. We aren't the point of the failure, it's the Runesmiths we'd inspire to write down lore and teach others so much more freely that are the point failure, but with how dwarf society works their failure gets indirectly traced back to us, same way as the crafter of a legendary weapon is only slightly less respected for his relationship with the weapon than it's greatest wielder is.

Anyways, it's 1am here, and I have a train to catch at 7:45, so I have to get some sleep while I can.
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A Chaos Dwarf could also simply torture the information out of Gunnardson. He also has more info in his head than will be written down in any book.

Does that mean we should restrict the movement of Runesmiths? Set up a buddy system? Start setting up warrior escorts whenever one decides to travel?

Because apparantly on one hand a Gunnardson will be stubborn and competent enough to resist Chaos Dwarf torture. But he won't stubborn or competent enough to actually secure his books along the general guidelines we're likely to set down?
 
I want- not solely, but mostly, and certainly above all else- I want max Procurement. "Double runework quality across the greater region" and "increased support for journeymen and talented runesmiths" would be worth the Maximum each to me; that they come bundled together, with a bonus "triple runework quality for Kraka Drak", is absolutely unimaginable to pass up.

How many Snerras and Snorris have died as journeymen? The great limiting factor on how far the runesmiths as a group can strengthen the Karaz Ankor is the Rule of Pride, and the only way around that is more runesmiths. Snorri is all about usefulness, after all, and what is more useless than talented beardlings dead before their time? If we're going to dare try to bend the stiff necks of runesmith culture to our liking, even by infinitely small degrees, let it be with the goal of "more master runesmiths" ever in mind.

Max Forum is second-most-important; greater interaction between runesmiths is the other thing that seems likely to lead to a healthy and vigorous culture of runesmiths, rather than a pack of splendid isolationists. Still, I think nearly everyone is taking that one *anyway*, so I have few worries there.

As such, I'm going to approval-vote every plan that includes max Procurement. I would prefer no Library, half or max Classes, max Forum, max defenses; I have a slight preference toward lower Maximums, but no strong feelings about Forging or Business specifically. And I literally could not care less about Food, Lodgings, Shopping, or Aesthetics. Procurement is the absolutely critical thing to my mind.

[X] Plan: Academy City
[X] Plan: Double Learning and triple Communication while staving off excumication?
[X] Plan MinMax
[X] Plan Max Maxium
[X] Plan Max Class, Forum, Proc and minor Forg and Lib
[X] Plan Support Your Runesmith
[X] Plan: Never Again
 
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[X] Plan All the Facilities, 3.88 maximum
[X] Plan: The bird is the word

I hope this total shutdown of books doesn't win, else Snorri's library will only be read by Karstah (and maybe all his other apprentices). It just seems like a waste, when all it focuses on is reagents and what their natural and rune characteristics are.
 
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[X] Plan Build a Third Karak, 3.88 maximum
[X]Plan Max Benefits
[X] Plan All the Facilities, 3.88 maximum
[X] Plan: The Bird Is The Word
[X] Plan Max Class, Forum, Proc and minor Forg and Lib
[X] Plan Max Maxium

While I'm not a fan of maximum library , I'm hating the precedent that the lowest option would set even more. It says right there
soulcake said:
Books? Books are for people who aren't Runesmiths!
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which is wrong. Thugni himself gave us a book, we are learning by reading books. Having the first dwarfen center of learning explicitly eschewing books would set a terrible precedent.
 
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