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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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I don't want to make the giant adamant gronti, because it's a giant vanity project without a T5 to power it.

But i know I'm in the minority, so... Eh whatever.
 
My personal goal for the adamant gronti is that it is at least as good in combat as Snorri is. But more importantly it has way more time for it. Lots of Hearthguard missions would become more effective.

Edit: Really I would prefer dwarf size. With Adamant it doesn't need size to be strong.
 
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fictionfan said:
My personal goal for the adamant gronti is that it is at least as good in combat as Snorri is. But more importantly it has way more time for it. Lots of Hearthguard missions would become more effective.

Edit: Really I would prefer dwarf size. With Adamant it doesn't need size to be strong.
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Tough and strong are two very different things, more importantly size dictates something more important than either which is scale of effect.
 
fictionfan said:
My personal goal for the adamant gronti is that it is at least as good in combat as Snorri is. But more importantly it has way more time for it. Lots of Hearthguard missions would become more effective.

Edit: Really I would prefer dwarf size. With Adamant it doesn't need size to be strong.
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But it needs to have size and mass to fight with certain kinds of beings...

As we discovered when that Bloodthirster threw us the Father of Mammoths, we need a more efficient way of dealing with truly Gigantic opponents.
 
Fanhunter696 said:
But it needs to have size and mass to fight with certain kinds of beings...

As we discovered when that Bloodthirster threw us the Father of Mammoths, we need a more efficient way of dealing with truly Gigantic opponents.
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Size didn't really help the father of Mammoths considering that it got thrown at us next.
 
I too would like an Adamant Gronti, though perhaps a more reasonably sized one, maybe like Shale-(Orc sized) from DAO?

Would be a really good addition to the Hearthguard.

Either way something like this would push our Hearthguards reputation through the roof~
 
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I'd be all for an ogre sized gronti over bloodthirster. Bloodthirster seems to me like it would be large enough the size starts causing disadvantages, having trouble hitting smaller stuff and unable to get into a lot of tighter spaces.
 
Eh. We have other dwarfs to deal with tiny enemies. The Bloodthrister is only for those where size makes them too dangerous for normal dwarfs to face that target.
 
Sorry you guys started talking about combat advantages relating to size and all I could think of was Snorri Making two adamant Gronti just to hold big stuff down so he could finally smack them without going flying ever other whack lol.
 
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TimEd said:
Eh. We have other dwarfs to deal with tiny enemies. The Bloodthrister is only for those where size makes them too dangerous for normal dwarfs to face that target.
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Pretty much, that said an Ogre sized Grimnir does work and probably fits the theme better over all, I'd like a bloodthrister sized one to act as a siege engine just in case but that doesn't have to be Grimnir themed.
 
Eh, we reached 32 bars this last turn so we have enough right now to make the bloodthirster sized one. That much adamant is probably t5 on its own and probably will be t5 after the movement/mind chains are done. Another 4-5 turns will stockpile the adamant needed for the armor/weapons of the thing so after that we'll be sitting on enough to get started whenever and still be piling up the adamant for other projects.
 
Dark as Silver said:
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I think its an expectations bottle neck. over the last couple of turns Snorri has churned out hundreds of suits of armour each of which would take three ingots. If this is a conservative estimate of 300 Adamant cost, that would be the output of 3 millennia of a single smelter.
Lets assume that Snorri makes a smelter every turn until we have stockpiled 300. Conveniently we can use the linear equations of motion for this, where distance is the stockpile, velocity is rate we're getting adamant and acceleration is the amount a new smelter produces
Initial stockpile = 32
Desired stockpile =300 Therefore Adamant needed =268
Initial rate of income = 2
Final rate of income = ?
Acceleration =1
Turns taken = ?

268 = 2* Turns + 1/2*1*Turns^2
about the final smelter comes online in turn 22 and at this point we've got an income of 24 bars per turn. Which is enough to pick up a job like that every 4 turns or so.
Conservatively, remember this doesn't cover weapons or talismans and 100 may be an underestimate of how many Valk Guards there are, this is the best possible price estimate.

Its impossible for us to say what the benefits of further researching the master rune and smelter could do to change this value, however I assume its approximately similar to Snorri disregarding one of the tenants of his faith with extreme prejudice.

Secondly the next problem is that people are adjusting their expectations of what the Gronti should be according to what they consider is the maximum effort we can put in.
The addition of a T5 Gromril variant will have some people shouting for that, and the fact that we can produce a full armoured Adamant Gronti slower than we can make the required adamant will have people asking to build an even larger Gronti that costs more. Hence I think this will always be a supply problem, because the demand is "Strech Snorri's considerable resources and skill to make the most decadant possible tribute to the gods."

And the final problem... Even if the timeline was more realistic, not everyone wants to do that. Industrialisation question just doesn't do it for many people in this quest.
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fyi the only reason it a option now is snorri felt it was long enough time period that the rule of pride doesn't kick in so it would be another 15 turns or much more until we could build another one
 
LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Eh, we reached 32 bars this last turn so we have enough right now to make the bloodthirster sized one. That much adamant is probably t5 on its own and probably will be t5 after the movement/mind chains are done. Another 4-5 turns will stockpile the adamant needed for the armor/weapons of the thing so after that we'll be sitting on enough to get started whenever and still be piling up the adamant for other projects.
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Erm, could you clarify what design you're imagining. Because we've had enough for a while for some designs, but people aren't willing to compromise on an Adamant Skinned Golem and some still want weapons and armour.
Heres the pricing table I made a while ago.
Dark as Silver said:
Updating the Gronti cost chart for the if we're now discussing small Ymir:


OptionAdamant Cost
Dwarf Sized (No Armour)7 (2+5*1)
4m (No Armour)14 (4+5*2)
12m (No Armour)23 (8+5*3)
Dwarf Sized (Armour)10 (2+3+5*1)
4m (Armour)22 (4+8+5*2)
12m (Armour)35 (8+12+5*3)
Dwarf Sized (Full Adamant No Armour)13 (8+5*1)
4m (Full Adamant No Armour)26 (16+5*2)
12m (Full Adamant No Armour)47 (32+5*3)
Dwarf Sized (Full Adamant Armour)16 (8+3+5*1)
4m (Full Adamant Armour)34 (16+8+5*2)
12m (Full Adamant Armour)59 (32+12+5*3)

For my two cents... A significant reason people are voting for the Gronti is that Snorri has a synergy with the runes on it.
The more we go heavily in on its equipment the more people need to justify why we don't just give that equipment to other dwarves who could use it just as well. And also Snorri already cannot think of something that could destroy the plated one so pure is overkill. I feel that the truest implementation of this plan would be a 12 m Adamant plated Gronti and just make the equipment out of regular old Pure Gomril. Following their logic this gives the highest chances of a Mythical Gronti rather than a Legendary Gronti with a bunch of Legendary/Epic items.

Of course the other significant reason people are voting this was Rule of Cool, and they just need to think the more heavily armed the Gronti is the cooler it is to justify so .🤷‍♂️
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We do not infact currently have enough for the Full Adamant Bloodthirster size (Equipmentless as that could be added later) which is what I think most of the loud voices are thinking of. E: I think I've gotten confused somewhere or I've forgotten what the chart is representing.
Woltaire said:
fyi the only reason it a option now is snorri felt it was long enough time period that the rule of pride doesn't kick in so it would be another 15 turns or much more until we could build another one
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I acknowledged that. The reason I ignored it was it provides a base line comparison that we could use to show just how much effort it would cost to get there, and b, because if I didn't overblow the number somehow, people would just say "Research will make that easier."
Here
Dark as Silver said:
Its impossible for us to say what the benefits of further researching the master rune and smelter could do to change this value, however I assume its approximately similar to Snorri disregarding one of the tenants of his faith with extreme prejudice.
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E: For the record if we're only able to add an extra forge every ten turns it will take us about 100 turns of unbroken saving to get there.
 
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Reminder that all our Grontis have been Bloodthirster sized so far. It isn't some never before seen monstrosity.
 
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Dark as Silver said:
Erm, could you clarify what design you're imagining. Because we've had enough for a while for some designs, but people aren't willing to compromise on an Adamant Skinned Golem and some still want weapons and armour.
Heres the pricing table I made a while ago.

We do not infact currently have enough for the Full Adamant Bloodthirster size (Equipmentless as that could be added later) which is what I think most of the loud voices are thinking of.

I acknowledged that. The reason I ignored it was it provides a base line comparison that we could use to show just how much effort it would cost to get there, and b, because if I didn't overblow the number somehow, people would just say "Research will make that easier."
Here

E: For the record if we're only able to add an extra forge every ten turns it will take us about 100 turns of unbroken saving to get there.
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Isn't the 12m one 32 bars for the body? That's what I meant plus a few turns more for weapons. Though I suppose it'd be another 6 turns beyond that for armor unless we're cool with covering it with steel for a bit lol.
 
Dutch said:
Reminder that all our Grontis have been Bloodthirster sized so far. It isn't some never before monstrosity.
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They've also all been stone rather than metal so are probably lighter. Let me hunt down the quote that compares density of Steel and Gromril.
Density of Steel is about twice that of Stone (8000kg/m^3 to 4000) so it would have to be less than that.

Confusingly
Article:
A gromril weapon has the same characteristics as its steel counterpart, except that it can never be broken by normal means.[10c]​

Which I think is inconsistent with most other sources? As a word, 'characteristics' is doing a lot of work there.

This is more helpful, but Laithero is 1st Ed material so may not be canon. And that does mean the rest of the page is slightly questionable. Stuff like Adamant armour making us magic immune, certainly doesn't match what we see in the quest.
Article:
Mithril is the most common form of Gromril. It is refined by smelting to remove most impurities. It is twice as durable as Steel and weighs one-fifth as much. It also accepts runes and enchantments as readily as any other metal.

However this would place a Gromril Gronti as lighter than a stone one. Although the wiki says Adamant weighs the same, I feel that at somepoint soulcake said Adamant is lighter in this quest. :Citation Needed: If anyone could provide it.
At least weight wise it should be feasible.

LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Isn't the 12m one 32 bars for the body? That's what I meant plus a few turns more for weapons. Though I suppose it'd be another 6 turns beyond that for armor unless we're cool with covering it with steel for a bit lol.
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None of them are 32 unless I forgot how to read the table.
Adamant skinned blood thirster Gronti is 23 so maybe you reversed the digits by accident, and Adamant skinned with weapons is 35.
E: Sorry I was wrong.
 
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Snorri has learned that Gronti work better when they are anatomically correct, so that Grimnir Gronti will be well equipped indeed...
 
Jreengus said:
According to the table of costs in the faq:

That's just for the gronti, without any armour or equipment.
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Ah yeah it's probably going to need armor at the minimum lol. 12 for the armor and 3 for a weapon means another 8 turns of stockpiling.

As for making it, it'll be 3 actions so we could cheese peerless production a little and put two actions into pt1 so it overflows one action in to pt2 and maybe procs peerless production bringing it down to one action left. Then the next turn we put all 5 into it and complete it with 7-12 overflow instead of 5-10.
 
Jreengus said:
According to the table of costs in the faq:

That's just for the gronti, without any armour or equipment.
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Shoot, well thanks for the correction, not sure where the charts gone wrong, I think its giving all of them a set of equipment, talismans double weapons and banner?
E:

LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Ah yeah it's probably going to need armor at the minimum lol. 12 for the armor and 3 for a weapon means another 8 turns of stockpiling.

As for making it, it'll be 3 actions so we could cheese peerless production a little and put two actions into pt1 so it overflows one action in to pt2 and maybe procs peerless production bringing it down to one action left. Then the next turn we put all 5 into it and complete it with 7-12 overflow instead of 5-10.
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Its already made of armour, the point of making it an Adamant Gronti is that it should be already indestructible. Whats adding a 'thin' (relative to the amount of gromril already on the Gronti) actually going to do?
 
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Dark as Silver said:
Shoot, well thanks for the correction, not sure where the charts gone wrong, I think its giving all of them a set of equipment, talismans double weapons and banner?
E:


Its already made of armour, the point of making it an Adamant Gronti is that it should be already indestructible. Whats adding a 'thin' (relative to the amount of gromril already on the Gronti) actually going to do?
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Let us add another set of 3 runes to it and potentially increase the power of any set bonus by 1 extra piece, armour runes can be offensive, for example:
soulcake said:
Combo, Stormfront: [Master Rune of Blizzards, Rune of Lightning, Rune of Grungni][The bearer is enshrouded in a layer of form blurring icy fog, while lightning crackles around them, attacking foes and vaporizing lesser projectiles into ash.] The Rolling thunderheads that swallow entire mountains are a common sight in the north in high summer, the old legends say that when Grungni first swung Drongrundum the skies, seeking to emulate him, created lightning and thunder in response.
Combo, Wyrrakdrengi: [Master Rune of Blizzards, Rune of Impact, Rune of Speed] The bearer can launch themselves forward at incredible speeds, forming a Gromril hard ice spike at a desired point on the armour.
Combo, Zharrkazad: [Master Rune of the Infernos, Rune of Fortitude, Rune of Vitality] The bearer can spew a coat of flames around themselves that improves their regeneration, heals minor wounds and burns their foes.
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