RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

[soulcake]

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

 

[LordEdric]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[Neshuakadal]

Except it's the only acknowledged reason for his madness and is even linked directly to the rest of the story by attributing the obsessiveness which caused the rest of the story as being theorized as coming from that even it's also the only example we really have of someone seriously violating the rule of pride and all other factors which could have lead to that phenomenon have already been explained away with regards to what could have caused the madness.

If you didn't notice it says it right there.

He repeated the same master rune 12 times in 10 turns that's a serious violation of the rule of pride.

Click to shrink...

Obsession is the acknowledged reason for his madness. However the story takes a much softer stance and why he was obsessed. It only states some believe that working with the runefangs caused obsession. Clearly there is disagreement about it, that even the author acknowledges. Why are you so sure that the other half of this argument is wrong? A strong case could be made that Alric was already obsessed before he started working on the runefangs. I struggle envisioning Snorri making 12 masterworks in 10 turns. You would have to be pretty obsessive to work that hard that quickly.

Also, while all other factors of his obsession have been explained away to your satisfaction, but I have serious concerns about your analysis. The very fact that you claim that "all other factors" have been explained raises an eyebrow from me. One line in a story is nowhere near enough material to make definite statements about Alric's life situations at the time, how Alric was handling stress, or what stressors Alric was dealing with.

It is also convenient of you to to delete the part of Soulcake's statement that talks about combos. Why would you remove that part when it's the basis of what I am using? A valid way of reading Soulcake's statement is that if the master rune is used in different combos than you can repeat the same master rune far more than 3-4 times. It just has to be in different combos. That also lines up with the rule of pride I quoted which states that you can't do the same combination of runes more than once. As long as the runefangs each have different combos, or have a set or 3-4 combos rotated amongst them, I don't see the rule of pride being broken.

 

[Varano]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[Artemis1992]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Lax: Any Runesmith who has reached the rank of Master is worthy. All of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[Havalt300]

[x] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
[x] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [x] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[SirKhakingtonIV]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[Vlagroth]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[Redhead222]

Only reason I want too wait with the chain is that we could refine that stuff in the next few turns. Otherwise I would say let's tell everyone now.

Also keeping it very limited feels conservative while teaching everyone feels very radical so middling feel right path too me.
Also pretty productive so very in line with snorri's general way of doing things.

 

[Noname1]

[x] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
[x] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [x] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[Robotninja]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[Copperscale]

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Lax: Any Runesmith who has reached the rank of Master is worthy. All of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[Czes]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Stringent: Teach those most alike with your own methodology in how to use and spread this Rune. 8 Of the two dozen will be taught.

Missed most of the discussion, but surprised that people are going with Lax on the forged limb. We've been worried about the consequences of doing this for quite a while, so shouldn't we be at least a little bit cautious about spreading this around? Or do people just think that we'll be able to adequately defend ourselves should we be called to account? Or is it the reverse of that, in that being stringent about it means that we are dictating what other runesmiths can do with the rune - which steps on a lot of toes regarding guild rules - and that letting any master learn might actually result in less grumbling?

Click to shrink...

At this point, it's up to your personal interpretation. Both could be right, maybe none of them is. I would be surprised, if anyone actually knew. Maybe Tzeentch addled our minds and is starting to turn us against each other, in order to give Chaos another chance.

 

[Lalzparty]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[Czes]

Current tally:

Adhoc vote count started by Riggnarock on Jan 31, 2021 at 3:02 AM, finished with 289 posts and 145 votes.

• ---

  132 people have voted

  [X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)

  • ConfusedCanuck
  • Nightlord256
  • Some_guy_161
  • Noroboro
  • Mar
  • RiyeLink
  • werdZerg13
  • CedeTheBees
  • Undead-Spaceman
  • Skyborn.12
  • Void Stalker
  • Hydroplatypus
  • tryrar
  • AxeTheGreat
  • Czes
  • tri2
  • In_lurk_shadow
  • Kingmally
  • SuperSonicSound
  • Woltaire
  • Andmeuths
  • Ithillid
  • kyuden
  • Jreengus
  • BungieONI
  • BelligerentGnu
  • Maybe Mike
  • ArchAIngel
  • Prompt Critical
  • tygerbright
  • Chlof
  • buli-buli
  • LotusPocus
  • EldritchObserver
  • Briefvoice
  • Bark
  • yannoshka
  • endless void
  • hcvquizibo
  • Gurrent

  ... and 92 more.

  73 people have voted

  [X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
  - [X] Lax: Any Runesmith who has reached the rank of Master is worthy. All of the two dozen will be taught.

  • SuperSonicSound
  • Woltaire
  • Andmeuths
  • Ithillid
  • kyuden
  • wakshazi
  • DerechteNikolaus
  • AlysPower
  • Deuterium Dawn
  • Oshha
  • Riggnarock
  • TempestK
  • Zenbeast
  • Byzantine
  • UlseDovThur
  • Valkyrien
  • shepsquared
  • Jrin
  • Night_stalker
  • Voikirium
  • Axel Fones
  • Prince of Brass
  • Wing101r
  • Neptune
  • minimap_op
  • frostedflanker
  • W00KY
  • Illusion of Eris
  • AbyssalDaemon
  • thefoolswriter
  • Rungni Khazadson
  • Cursix
  • Raikazin
  • PurposefulZephyr
  • FunkyEntropy
  • Carcer
  • Abhishekam
  • Salty Birb
  • SurpriseMe
  • Lalzparty

  ... and 33 more.

  47 people have voted

  [X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
  - [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

  • SuperSonicSound
  • Woltaire
  • Andmeuths
  • Ithillid
  • kyuden
  • Jreengus
  • ArchAIngel
  • Prompt Critical
  • tygerbright
  • Chlof
  • buli-buli
  • LotusPocus
  • EldritchObserver
  • Briefvoice
  • Bark
  • yannoshka
  • endless void
  • hcvquizibo
  • Gurrent
  • jwolfe_beta
  • Kaimodi
  • Blackshard
  • Neshuakadal
  • Retrueno
  • Darklord.
  • IllogicalLogic
  • Redhead222
  • Sir_Travelsalot
  • thisisinsane
  • Deathbybunnies
  • taovkool
  • DarknessSmiles
  • Trilobite
  • Fayhem
  • Zefferen
  • godofsmallthings
  • Chimeraguard
  • LordEdric
  • Varano
  • Havalt300

  ... and 7 more.

  17 people have voted

  [X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
  - [X] Stringent: Teach those most alike with your own methodology in how to use and spread this Rune. 8 Of the two dozen will be taught.

  • ConfusedCanuck
  • Nightlord256
  • Some_guy_161
  • Noroboro
  • Mar
  • RiyeLink
  • werdZerg13
  • CedeTheBees
  • Undead-Spaceman
  • Skyborn.12
  • Void Stalker
  • Hydroplatypus
  • tryrar
  • AxeTheGreat
  • Jreengus
  • tryingtobewitty
  • Xepheria

  6 people have voted

  [X] [Masters]: Do not teach them the Rune of Forged Limb

  • Czes
  • tri2
  • In_lurk_shadow
  • Kingmally
  • tryingtobewitty
  • Silver719

  5 people have voted

  [X] [Masters]: I'd prefer Soulcake decide this one based on Snorri's character.

  • BungieONI
  • BelligerentGnu
  • Maybe Mike
  • Ekzentric Lohner
  • MysteryCPU

  1 people have voted

  - [X] Middling: Teach those you consider

  • argenten

  1 people have voted

  [X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
  - [X] Lax: Any Runesmith who hasx reached the rank of Master is worthy. All of the two dozen will be taught.

  • Rolen von Keng

  1 people have voted

  [X] [Chain]: Release the method now.

  • Daemon Hunter

  1 people have voted

  [X] [Masters]: Do not teach them the Rune of Forged Limb YET - at Rhunkalbrogg, propose making the Rune of Forged Limb available to all Masters in good standing due to its sheer usefulness to other Dawi. If the proposal is accepted, then teach all two dozen (and any others who arrive seeking to learn); if not, continue to only teach your apprentices.

  • Ekzentric Lohner

 

[ArchAIngel]

One vote to not wait a bit to share the chain.

That's... kind of funny. It's arguably the less meaningful vote of these two just because there's ultimately very little point to offering a Dawi "Reward now or bigger reward later".

 

[carterhall]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[pucflek]

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Stringent: Teach those most alike with your own methodology in how to use and spread this Rune. 8 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[Sir LagsAlot]

Obsession is the acknowledged reason for his madness. However the story takes a much softer stance and why he was obsessed. It only states some believe that working with the runefangs caused obsession. Clearly there is disagreement about it, that even the author acknowledges. Why are you so sure that the other half of this argument is wrong? A strong case could be made that Alric was already obsessed before he started working on the runefangs. I struggle envisioning Snorri making 12 masterworks in 10 turns. You would have to be pretty obsessive to work that hard that quickly.

Click to shrink...

I'm so sure that the other half is wrong simply because the other side has never made its case and because the history lines up for an easily explainable reason for the runefang situation the commission was made as is because the Dwarfs owed a deep debt to the humans and therefore the relics had to be made by the best which at the time was Alric and they had to be made in a short enough amount of time to still get to the humans before they died so Alric was literally honor-bound to accept the commission and lock himself up for an extended period of time to finish them in no way did he need to be obsessive in order to take the commission.

Also, while all other factors of his obsession have been explained away to your satisfaction, but I have serious concerns about your analysis. The very fact that you claim that "all other factors" have been explained raises an eyebrow from me. One line in a story is nowhere near enough material to make definite statements about Alric's life situations at the time, how Alric was handling stress, or what stressors Alric was dealing with.

Click to shrink...

I can make that statement because no one has brought up a stress that doesn't have an obvious example to counteract it or an obvious outlet that would have been used for it in no way have I ever based my entire argument for this on just that one statement you can go view the multiple pages of discussion on the stresses Alric was under and how they would have been handled or wouldn't have been a problem I've already had if you so wish.

It is also convenient of you to to delete the part of Soulcake's statement that talks about combos. Why would you remove that part when it's the basis of what I am using? A valid way of reading Soulcake's statement is that if the master rune is used in different combos than you can repeat the same master rune far more than 3-4 times. It just has to be in different combos. That also lines up with the rule of pride I quoted which states that you can't do the same combination of runes more than once. As long as the runefangs each have different combos, or have a set or 3-4 combos rotated amongst them, I don't see the rule of pride being broken.

Click to shrink...

Uh, because that section isn't relevant we've directly had Snorri refuse to make master runes because he's made two or three of X master rune at all in a century because it would be a violation of the rule of pride so Alric according to super radical Snorri was in extreme violation of the rule of pride.

 

[Lich king]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[NHO]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[Copperscale]

Also, talking about the Everqueen got exactly the results i hoped.

Master Rune of Kingship idea

 

[Ithillid]

That's... kind of funny. It's arguably the less meaningful vote of these two just because there's ultimately very little point to offering a Dawi "Reward now or bigger reward later".

Click to shrink...

Or most questers for that matter. The average quester is a serious loot goblin, and if you ask pretty much anyone here, shiny now, or bigger pile of shiny later, unless there is a very good reason, people will usually take shiny later.

 

[Starlit Horizon]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.

 

[ArchAIngel]

Or most questers for that matter. The average quester is a serious loot goblin, and if you ask pretty much anyone here, shiny now, or bigger pile of shiny later, unless there is a very good reason, people will usually take shiny later.

Click to shrink...

The only cost in this case is time. And we are pretty much assured to Be There On Time.

A Wizard Runelord is always there when he wishes to be, after all!

 

[feanor]

[X] [Chain]: Wait until Rhunkalbrogg. (Turn 41)
Gain: Greater impact when you do reveal it, what with the work. ??? Deed and Title, Chainwright.

[X] [Masters]: Teach them the Rune of Forged Limb
- [X] Middling: Teach those you consider reasonably sure to use and spread the rune as you do. 18 Of the two dozen will be taught.