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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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On the whole 'wonder why Smednir crossed out their name for Adamant and used Snorri's... To throw in my own possibility, it could be that before Snorri discovered the Master Rune of Purification, even the Ancestors didn't have a method of reliably, consistently 'mass' producing Adamant. And we all know that for Dwarves being able to reliably, consistently, without error or inconsistency creating something is the Gromril standard. So by using Snorri's name for it, he's recognizing that Snorri's the first to master the production of the material to a Dwarf's standards and thus has naming rites.

There's many possibilities but well, I think this fits Dwarven culture. Of course, this all relies on the fact that the Ancestors lacking something that can consistently and reliably produce Adamant without waste like Snorri managed. If they can, which I definitely don't put past them, then a new theory's needed.
 
Pyro Hawk said:
On the whole 'wonder why Smednir crossed out their name for Adamant and used Snorri's... To throw in my own possibility, it could be that before Snorri discovered the Master Rune of Purification, even the Ancestors didn't have a method of reliably, consistently 'mass' producing Adamant. And we all know that for Dwarves being able to reliably, consistently, without error or inconsistency creating something is the Gromril standard. So by using Snorri's name for it, he's recognizing that Snorri's the first to master the production of the material to a Dwarf's standards and thus has naming rites.

There's many possibilities but well, I think this fits Dwarven culture. Of course, this all relies on the fact that the Ancestors lacking something that can consistently and reliably produce Adamant without waste like Snorri managed. If they can, which I definitely don't put past them, then a new theory's needed.
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I don't think this is true. We know that the Brotherhood of Dom could reliably produce massive quantities of adamant. It was just expensive. Very very expensive. So I don't think that Snorri would count as the first to master the production of something. Dwarfs have been doing it for a long time already.
 
Pyro Hawk said:
On the whole 'wonder why Smednir crossed out their name for Adamant and used Snorri's... To throw in my own possibility, it could be that before Snorri discovered the Master Rune of Purification, even the Ancestors didn't have a method of reliably, consistently 'mass' producing Adamant. And we all know that for Dwarves being able to reliably, consistently, without error or inconsistency creating something is the Gromril standard. So by using Snorri's name for it, he's recognizing that Snorri's the first to master the production of the material to a Dwarf's standards and thus has naming rites.

There's many possibilities but well, I think this fits Dwarven culture. Of course, this all relies on the fact that the Ancestors lacking something that can consistently and reliably produce Adamant without waste like Snorri managed. If they can, which I definitely don't put past them, then a new theory's needed.
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If that's the case, Snorri is probably going to chug that 900 year old trollbrew he keeps on the vault
 
Neshuakadal said:
I don't think this is true. We know that the Brotherhood of Dom could reliably produce massive quantities of adamant. It was just expensive. Very very expensive. So I don't think that Snorri would count as the first to master the production of something. Dwarfs have been doing it for a long time already.
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True, however their method was a far less refined one. They basically did what Snorri did with Trollslayer and obsessively purified the Gromril the hard and mundane way over and over agian until it, finally, became Adamant. Snorri however created a process that is Runic in nature and completely automatic and requires zero effort beyond making the Smelter itself. A far superior method on basically every level.

He basically antiquated their method of Adamant refinement the same way Thungni antiquated Smednir's method of refining Gromril into Pure Gromril. With the power of Runes!
 
To be fair, I think the other name is kind of cooler myself.

Grombrynril? Definitely sounds cool. A very Khazalid name.
 
Garlak said:
Speaking of sets though...

Sets come in 5s. Because there are only 5 items you can make and wear, and Engineering things don't count towards sets, unless you made a Gronti and are making equipment for that Gronti; in which case the maximum would be 6 rather than 7. 5 runic items, 5 ancestors... ... Eh, probably too hard to pull off. But, just as a sort of neat example or reference or mirror thing, it's, well, neat. Like -- we've got the full 'set' of items here, much like a 5-item set of rune combos, which is neat sorta.

As for Thungni... We're descended from Thungni. Not sure what else we can get from him. I guess Thungni's and Morgrim's mementoes were subsumed into Grungni's necklace with its now-7 ancestor runes.

At least we've met both Thungni and Morgrim? Thungni at the Conclave, Morgrim when he came back from his father's march to the north, and built some things for the Kraka and Gryphons and wrote a book on engineering and war.
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You've misunderstood sets, they don't have to be 5 items thats just what we're aiming for because a set effect of more items should intuitively be more powerfull than less items.
You need a minimum of three items to make a set, more items can be included, however since mechanically we are limited to having 5 items equipped at a time that provides the effective upper bound.

However given the context you were responding to I don't think they meant a set with mechanical benefits and synergies, more like a hobbists collection where a set marked that it was complete.
UlseDovThur said:
True, however their method was a far less refined one. They basically did what Snorri did with Trollslayer and obsessively purified the Gromril the hard and mundane way over and over agian until it, finally, became Adamant. Snorri however created a process that is Runic in nature and completely automatic and requires zero effort beyond making the Smelter itself. A far superior method on basically every level.

He basically antiquated their method of Adamant refinement the same way Thungni antiquated Smednir's method of refining Gromril into Pure Gromril. With the power of Runes!
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Erm... Thungni antiquated Smednirs method? Could you elaborate on this because I have no idea what you're talking about?
 
Dark as Silver said:
You've misunderstood sets, they don't have to be 5 items thats just what we're aiming for because a set effect of more items should intuitively be more powerfull than less items.
You need a minimum of three items to make a set, more items can be included, however since mechanically we are limited to having 5 items equipped at a time that provides the effective upper bound.

However given the context you were responding to I don't think they meant a set with mechanical benefits and synergies, more like a hobbists collection where a set marked that it was complete.

Erm... Thungni antiquated Smednirs method? Could you elaborate on this because I have no idea what you're talking about?
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When we were making Zharrgal, it mentioned that Thungni made the previous Pure Gromril creation method, which took months for a block, obsolete via Runes. We made it the old way to make Things Happen hopefully.
 
UlseDovThur said:
True, however their method was a far less refined one. They basically did what Snorri did with Trollslayer and obsessively purified the Gromril the hard and mundane way over and over agian until it, finally, became Adamant. Snorri however created a process that is Runic in nature and completely automatic and requires zero effort beyond making the Smelter itself. A far superior method on basically every level.

He basically antiquated their method of Adamant refinement the same way Thungni antiquated Smednir's method of refining Gromril into Pure Gromril. With the power of Runes!
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Handling the great amount of heated for the original method would need runes in some way. It's basically impossible for them not to. Because of that I don't think the argument that the process is runic in nature is enough to grant Snorri naming rights. Snorri's method is more consistent than the previous method, but also produces far less material. If, for some ancestor forsaken reason, you need a lot of adamant as fast as possible the old method is better. Snorri's method is better in the vast amount of use cases, but I don't think it is so overwhelmingly superior as too grant naming rights. Especially given the stringent requirements for the purification rune.
 
ArchAIngel said:
When we were making Zharrgal, it mentioned that Thungni made the previous Pure Gromril creation method, which took months for a block, obsolete via Runes. We made it the old way to make Things Happen hopefully.
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Found it thanks.
soulcake said:
What better representation than the highest form of mundane purity possible? A bar of Pure Gromril, not made in your smelters, but by constantly purifying a far larger block of Gromril until every last speck of impurity was removed through entirely mundane means. Months of melting, skimming, draining and casting until it was done. Just as it was done before Thungni antiquated the practice,
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Thats extremely weird as during Trollslayer we seem to have done it the Smednir way
soulcake said:
You have the Pure Gromril axe head in your Rune inscribed glove, the metal glowing hot from the forge, surface ready for Runes. You examine the glowing metal, your eyes trailing across the final form of the weapon, a large bearded blade and wickedly long buttspike to balance it. You can imagine the engraving that will go on its surface, the burning image of a comet falling to the earth, the Runes you've planned burning bright in its center in your mind's eye. The metal is beautiful, one of the purer samples of Gromril you've forged.

Still not pure enough.

You throw the axehead back into the furnace, drawing more charcoal from the pile and shovelling it into the smelter. Reconstitute the bar, replace it if necessary, you weren't satisfied yet.
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And during the campaign of the Valiant (PT2) Kraggi also seems to assume the Smednir way.
soulcake said:
You glance at Kraggi, the dwarf's eyes squinted in the direction of the King's axe then back at you.

(Roll, Kraggi's eyes: ??? +20[Brotherhood of Dron] +15[Runelord's intuition] =???

"You made that?" he asks, staring at you questioningly.

"Aye," you say neutrally.

"A mighty bright axe, I take it you purified the bar say 9 times?" Kraggi replies, tone conversational.

"Nai, only seven times," you reply, memory coming up unbidden. Nothing truly outrageous to share or ask, simply the kind of information most Runelords knew. Pure Gromril wasn't exactly a large secret.
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Dark as Silver said:
Erm... Thungni antiquated Smednirs method? Could you elaborate on this because I have no idea what you're talking about?
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It's in one of the updates in the middle or so I think. Where for some reason I forgot, Snorri needs Pure Gromril for a rune, but using Pure Gromril smelted via a rune produces a weaker rune. So he gets Pure Gromril done the old fashioned way which means the way that Smiths used to refine Gromril to Pure Gromril before Runes were a thing. Which takes a lot of time, effort and skill. Which basically means it's never done anymore except for when the Smith's Guild is testing if a Journeyman Smith is ready to become a Master Smith because it's one of the Master-level tests.

Neshuakadal said:
Handling the great amount of heated for the original method would need runes in some way. It's basically impossible for them not to. Because of that I don't think the argument that the process is runic in nature is enough to grant Snorri naming rights. Snorri's method is more consistent than the previous method, but also produces far less material. If, for some ancestor forsaken reason, you need a lot of adamant as fast as possible the old method is better. Snorri's method is better in the vast amount of use cases, but I don't think it is so overwhelmingly superior as too grant naming rights. Especially given the stringent requirements for the purification rune.
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Ah, but what is produced from the other manner isn't pure Adamant. It's a mixed slag of Adamant and Pure Gromril. Which then needs to be separated and refined in a very laborious fashion. The process is also extremely wasteful and not exactly repeatable. Sure, you can do the whole process again but every single batch gives a different amount of Adamant ot Pure Gromril due to unknown and uncontrolled factors. Whereas Snorri's version is perfectly repeatable and gives the same results every time. If you want to produce more, you just need to make more of the smelters and the smelters using a rare and hard to obtain ingredient for the Master Rune in them isn't exactly something that's a negative point considering it doesn't get used up making a single 'batch'. Compare that to where the other process uses up a phenomenal amount of a just as rare ingredient per batch and thus isn't really sustainable... You can see why I said that Snorri's Master Rune basically solves the 'Repeatable, Consistent, Sustainable Mass Production' conundrum whereas the previous version had only vaguely achieved the first and last part of that... With the 'Mass Production' 'solution' meaning if you want a lot of it, you'd beggar a Karak.
 
BungieONI said:
One thing I'm thinking of is using a theme option for the Gimli talisman, since that should make it easier to get a consensus on it and means the combo comes down to a dice roll. We can throw around ideas about what kingship means or what runes best suit what we think Gimli needs, but Snorri does know the runes better than us and can probably grasp what to use better than we can to achieve our idea.
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Do you think Snorri would pull a Snerra and inscribe the name of every clan that lives in Kraka Drak on a bigger item? Personally all for a talisman tbh I just wonder if that would have its own weight on a prince/kingly item. Knowing the names of every clan that will depend on you to lead them forward.

Not as much as a Rune of Ancestors and a MR of Grungni + something else. That would have a lot of weight to drop on a leader. Proto Rune of Kingship or something.
 
Remember that although the Master Runes of [Ancestor] may be a compressed combo containing the Ancestor Rune, they're not Ancestor Runes, so don't have the conceptual breadth they do.

The Master Rune of Grungni isn't about being a King, or a Craftsman. It's about blowing projectile attacks away.
 
I dunno, we might not do politics directly (ignoring the whole refounding a hold thing) but we certainly have a significant impact on the politics of the north.
 
No7sHere said:
@soulcake is Snorri old enough yet to be an elder of his clan and if yes is there any reason we wouldn't be involved in determining clan affairs?
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Hmm, next time we have a kumenout on screen, we will be sitting in the elders section. 800 was the cutoff point, so we could have been sitting there for a century.

But then there's the not doing politics part, which is probably why it's not on screen.

But we have which influence without even trying: the runesmiths of a whole hold trying to be us and failing.
 
No7sHere said:
I dunno, we might not do politics directly (ignoring the whole refounding a hold thing) but we certainly have a significant impact on the politics of the north.
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Yes. By making stuff. Snorri doesn't care for politics and neither does most of us as voters. We just want cool stuff. This is actually remarked upon in the talk between the Karak Dum survivors Queen and Igna. Snorri doesn't give rat's arse politicking. He just throws legendary artifacts at issues and then goes back to his workshop to prepare the next batch for the next set of issues.
 
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Pretending to yourself and others that you aren't doing politics isn't the same as not doing politics.

It just means you're doing politics badly and negligently.
 
I think some people just have different ideas of what counts as "politics" or not.

For instance, sitting with your fellow Clan Elders during events or during Kumenouht could be seen as just doing what's expected or normal. You're an elder, you sit with the elders. That's the way I see it, and found it a bit odd to hear people going 'We don't do politics.' (What, we... don't sit with the people our age or older, at family gatherings? Really? That's what you call politics? Eh, everyone draws the line differently, I guess.)

Deciding what a clan, or your clan, "should" be doing or trying to facilitate treaties between holds or whatever... that's more into politics for some. Though if you're a merchant or trader, and your family is a merchant family, then you're kind of deciding where to trade or what endeavor to pursue by 'default' anyway. But if you're a not-quite-recluse like some Runelords are, well, the 'expected' level of activity and weight-throwing-around is different.
 
Garlak said:
I think some people just have different ideas of what counts as "politics" or not.
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Sitting with the elders is something Snorri would do (and probably has been doing offscreen) for the last hundred years.
But i don't see him getting involved in things like negotiations on behalf of clan Winterheath. He's got enough on his plate with being the runelord of kraka drakk and his own work.
 
IronFist said:
Sitting with the elders is something Snorri would do (and probably has been doing offscreen) for the last hundred years.
But i don't see him getting involved in things like negotiations on behalf of clan Winterheath. He's got enough on his plate with being the runelord of kraka drakk and his own work.
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Being the sole Runelord in a Runesmith Clan means that Clan Winterhearth's business is probably his business.
 
Alratan said:
Being the sole Runelord in a Runesmith Clan means that Clan Winterhearth's business is probably his business.
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Runelord business is only a subset of what it takes to run a clan. For instance, i don't see Snorri involving himself in a marriage negotiation for a clan member.
Otoh, if its rune related, he'd be the goto person.
What kind of issues are you envisioning Snorri involving himself into?
Rune-politics such as finding masters for beardlings (when he can't take them on himself?)
 
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