Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

[DataSnake]

Us being post-Law of Cycles strikes me as indicative that the problem with telling Homura about the existence of an infohazard would be the risk of us triggering a repressed memory of Kyubey potentialbombing her before the Law of Cycles wish. And possibly triggering more memories than that.

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It could also be more than just memories. Given how remembering things started to merge Madoka back into the Law of Cycles at the end of Rebellion, it's possible that something similar could happen with our Homura and Homucifer.

 

[Nerevar]

Who knows, maybe *we* are one of those divine fragments.

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As a reminder, we have wings. I think us being such a fragment is pretty likely.

As for "dealing" with possibly insane fragments of Madokami and/or Homufer, the answer isn't going to be found in violence, even if those fragments are diminished enough for violence against them to be a coherent idea.The answer for either and both will be to help them. Better communication, improved self-worth, more understanding, support, love, and setting good examples.

Obviously, helping the Madoka and Homura we have here will be the best place to start. Having an example to show the other fragments that a life where they're happy is possible. They're likely to be the ones the other fragments are more likely to listen to anyway, so making sure we've given them the right messages and lessons that they'll be able to communicate to their other selves is one way we can work towards that.

And of course, Sabrina learning the right lessons is equally important if we recognize we're likely a fragment as well. Another reason to be grateful to Mami for getting us out of the trap of thinking a Madoka style self sacrifice would count as a good end.

Which is incidentally also why helping Oriko escape that mindset is important on the cosmic scale she was thinking about in her worst moments. Because it's yet another microcosm and example that needs to be reinforced when trying to communicate the importance to both Madokami and Homufer.

Edit:
Also, we need to remember not to get dragged off track. We came here today for Oriko, to help find information that can save her from what's going to kill her. We need to offer her reassurance that we'll help her avoid backsliding, offer her our thanks for her bravery facing this difficult experience, and keep the focus on finding ways to keep her safe.

We can't help Oriko keep her own eyes on the prize of surviving to the end of the month if we let ourselves get distracted by the cosmic drama that was what was distracting her.

 

[Redshirt Army]

Also, we need to remember not to get dragged off track. We came here today for Oriko, to help find information that can save her from what's going to kill her. We need to offer her reassurance that we'll help her avoid backsliding, offer her our thanks for her bravery facing this difficult experience, and keep the focus on finding ways to keep her safe.

We can't help Oriko keep her own eyes on the prize of surviving to the end of the month if we let ourselves get distracted by the cosmic drama that was what was distracting her.

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Intense +1 to this.

Now more than ever, it's all about the people, and that includes Oriko.

 

[Arum60]

Also, we need to remember not to get dragged off track. We came here today for Oriko, to help find information that can save her from what's going to kill her. We need to offer her reassurance that we'll help her avoid backsliding, offer her our thanks for her bravery facing this difficult experience, and keep the focus on finding ways to keep her safe.

We can't help Oriko keep her own eyes on the prize of surviving to the end of the month if we let ourselves get distracted by the cosmic drama that was what was distracting her.

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Agreement- the cosmic conflict may be somewhat relevant, but besides the adjacent bits we don't need to worry about it at the moment. At most, we can check by making a god scanner.

In short, only the pieces that are actually here matter- and, more specifically, only the ones regarding Oriko.

As for "dealing" with possibly insane fragments of Madokami and/or Homufer, the answer isn't going to be found in violence, even if those fragments are diminished enough for violence against them to be a coherent idea.The answer for either and both will be to help them. Better communication, improved self-worth, more understanding, support, love, and setting good examples.

Obviously, helping the Madoka and Homura we have here will be the best place to start. Having an example to show the other fragments that a life where they're happy is possible. They're likely to be the ones the other fragments are more likely to listen to anyway, so making sure we've given them the right messages and lessons that they'll be able to communicate to their other selves is one way we can work towards that.

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Agreement. Violence should be the last resort, especially since I don't think that we can win against a god. Even a fragment. No- it's more like "Trying to subdue a god" just feels like a bad idea. Like, we all know what happened the *last* time someone tried.

And yea- we could be a fragment or affiliate as well.

So, we should make a god detector, I guess. We may be able to just check real quick.

Anyway, we can just sum things up with "I think we're in the middle of a war between two transcendent magical girls that are the equivalent of gods, both attempting to tear the other apart. Given your vision, there may be a fragment or two in this world."

And then continue with Oriko stuff

Edit:

We can figure out some stuff using that god detector later, provided that we can make it. It could be useful data.

 

[DarkVeracity]

Anyway, we can just sum things up with "I think we're in the middle of a war between two transcendent magical girls that are the equivalent of gods, both attempting to tear the other apart. Given your vision, there may be a fragment or two in this world."

And then continue with Oriko stuff

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Oriko (and Kirika) is in a unique position as the only person who has enough context to understand the full explanation without needing to be told anything extra first and who we also don't have to worry about that explanation negatively influencing by triggering lost cosmic memories. This is also her life we're talking about here. I'm inclined to provide an abbreviated explanation, keep going, and then when we're done ask Mami, Yuki, and Umika to step outside and tell Oriko everything we know. There's no reason to hold back with her and having another smart person know everything would really help

 

[Wyrd]

Also! I'll be taking a break until the new year. I've got some thinking and some plotting to do, in any case, so I reckon this is a good point to call it for the year. So, until 2024 - see you all! I'll be back, never fear.

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Merry Christmas, Chappy Chanukah, Felice Kwanza, yes!Yule, or whatever else you celebrate, and a happy new year, should we have the misfortune of there being another one. I'm always rooting for the Apocalypse as the -apparent- ultimate underdog.

 

[Arum60]

Oriko (and Kirika) is in a unique position as the only person who has enough context to understand the full explanation without needing to be told anything extra first and who we also don't have to worry about that explanation negatively influencing by triggering lost cosmic memories. This is also her life we're talking about here. I'm inclined to provide an abbreviated explanation, keep going, and then when we're done ask Mami, Yuki, and Umika to step outside and tell Oriko everything we know. There's no reason to hold back with her and having another smart person know everything would really help

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True- they already know everything, don't they?

I think that's a good idea as well.

So:

[X] Briefly explain that you think this vision means that a fragment of a god, if not multiple, is in this world. Sum up the Madokami X Homucifer conflict, but don't give specific names. Something like "I don't know the exact details, but it seems like there are two gods fighting across all of time. The fragment that your vision mentions is likely a piece of one, broken off during their eternal and accusal war."

[X] After, let Oriko continue to look into her visions as needed.

[X] Once that is concluded, talk with Oriko without the others. (Not sure if her GF should be included or not). Explain the Madokami X Homucifer conflict properly. If we need an explanation for the others, explain that it deals with things that Oriko knows but we can't disclose.

 

[DarkVeracity]

[X] Once that is concluded, talk with Oriko without the others. (Not sure if her GF should be included or not). Explain the Madokami X Homucifer conflict properly. If we need an explanation for the others, explain that it deals with things that Oriko knows but we can't disclose.

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This is also a good place to bring up any other weird details we've picked up - the parity of Homura's shield being different from what we'd expect, the timeline before this seeming to match the one where Madokami ascended except for a different wish at the end, Toshimichi referring to us as elder cousin, etc

 

[Arum60]

This is also a good place to bring up any other weird details we've picked up - the parity of Homura's shield being different from what we'd expect, the timeline before this seeming to match the one where Madokami ascended except for a different wish at the end, Toshimichi referring to us as elder cousin, etc

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We can also make the god-detection trinket (to see if we're related) and maybe check to see if we can make that dewitch construct as well.

So, all in all:

[X] Briefly explain that you think this vision means that a fragment of a god, if not multiple, is in this world. Sum up the Madokami X Homucifer "War in Heaven", but don't give specific names or details.

[X] After, let Oriko continue to look into her visions as needed.

[X] Once that is concluded, talk with Oriko without the others. (Not sure if her GF should be included or not). Explain the Madokami X Homucifer conflict properly. If we need an explanation for the others, explain that it deals with things that Oriko knows but we can't disclose.

-[X] We can also talk about the other oddities that we've noticed- the parity of Homura's shield being different from what we'd expect, the timeline before this seeming to match the one where Madokami ascended except for a different wish at the end, Toshimichi referring to us as elder cousin, etc

-[X] Make a god-detection trinket (ie something that detects Homucifer and/or Madokami) to see if we're a fragment.

-[X] Make a dewitch construct.

Edit:

Made things more to the point

 

[Nerevar]

Guys, we don't have to lie or obfuscate about any of this.

Mami and Umika know that there is a horrible truth. We can simply inform them that we've been aware through our metaknowledge from the start of a counter factual timeline where Madoka learned about it and wished to fix the problem and ended up zero-summing herself into a cosmic concept as a side effect. She got a nice dress and fluffy white wings, but had to stop being a person in exchange, becoming a phenomenon known as the Law of Cycles.

We can then straightforwardly explain that Homura was the only one who remembered her, until she made the mistake of trusting Kyubey, who proceeded to try to undo Madoka's wish and get that horrible truth back to being a horrible truth by torturing Homura until Madoka came to save her.

From there, we can explain that as a result of Kyubey's interference and a lot of poor communication, Homura attempted to save Madoka and ended up breaking the cosmic concept she had become in the process.

Homura ended up with god powers somewhere in there, lost all her fashion sense, and gained black feathered wings. She ended up hating herself for what she did, with that terrible dress presumably part of how she was punishing herself.

Then we add that none of that ever happened, but that doesn't really matter when you're dealing with acausal gods.

Maybe add that we're convinced that we can fix the problem without requiring a human sacrifice like that, that our friends can and WILL get to remain people and live happy lives.

The only reasons I can think of to hide any of this at this point would be fear that we wouldn't be believed and fear that someone in this room would hear all that and go try to murder Madoka or Homura in order to stop Feathers, but if that was an option that would have worked, it would have been Oriko's plan A, just like it was when she was trying to stop Gretchen, a point we can also raise if we are concerned about that.

 

[Recurrence]

I want to try to get this across without lapsing into the usual meandering adhd-powered tangent fest I usually do. Knowing we're dealing with a fragment of the Law makes things really interesting.

I could rant about the metaphysical implications but... that seems to be the dominant line of thought. I wanna point at practical stuff, because we know roughly what part of the Law is missing. We know that right now the law cannot be everywhere to stop witchouts. Because we've been dealing, very obviously, with the consequences of those all quest.

However, I'm going to argue we may have actually seen evidence of part of the Law being put to work. Specifically, we have two instances of characters in this story moving in ways that do not make sense conventionally, even for 'Guca.
1. Sayaka when she got teleported across town utterly inexplicably.
2. Kuroki Matsuko, spirited away.
We've long held both of these events were Feathers and both of them only happened because we were screwing around with barriers. However the trick works, this makes for a solid explanation for both events. Feathers likely posesses some amount of the Law's power. Whether that's the fragment, or the lion's share of it is up for debate.

One more event I want to bring up is the weird case of Sasaki Sora. There are other factors at play there and it isn't like the others, but a she witched out in a place she had no reason to without malicious interference, in a way that destablised Tokyo. That may not fit the methodology involved in Sayaka's event, but it reflects the same level of understanding of causality. If it was done deliberately.

Man, posting here always makes me feel half-baked in my thoughts and insincere in my efforts. There's more instances of witchouts destabilising situations shortly before we got there in the quest but none seem to reflect this level of causal interference, at least off the top of my head.

 

[DarkVeracity]

The only reasons I can think of to hide any of this at this point would be fear that we wouldn't be believed and fear that someone in this room would hear all that and go try to murder Madoka or Homura in order to stop Feathers, but if that was an option that would have worked, it would have been Oriko's plan A, just like it was when she was trying to stop Gretchen, a point we can also raise if we are concerned about that.

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Have Yuki and Umika even met Madoka? Have they had more than a brief conversation with Homura in passing? Giving a detailed explanation of what happened is fine but telling them the specific names of the girls involved who happen to be their distant acquaintances feels like a privacy violation

 

[Nerevar]

Have Yuki and Umika even met Madoka? Have they had more than a brief conversation with Homura in passing? Giving a detailed explanation of what happened is fine but telling them the specific names of the girls involved who happen to be their distant acquaintances feels like a privacy violation

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Mostly, I don't want the completely unnecessary lie that we don't know who they are. We do know, and pretending we don't will only encourage those who don't to waste their time and effort trying to help us fill in the blanks and might put them both in more danger. If we don't want to name names in mixed company, then referring to them as our friends would be both more honest and would better communicate our unwillingness to act against them.

 

[DarkVeracity]

Man, posting here always makes me feel half-baked in my thoughts and insincere in my efforts. There's more instances of witchouts destabilising situations shortly before we got there in the quest but none seem to reflect this level of causal interference, at least off the top of my head.

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Conversely we've also had a few instances of girls who should have been contracted not getting approached by Kyubey. When Sabrina found Nagisa her mother was already dead but she wasn't contracted even though she should have been and Komaki should have already been contracted at the start of the timeline and wasn't (this is a retcon since Sadness Prayer hadn't been written when the quest started but Firn posted something about tweaking the backstory timeline to account for her when asked about it. this is also why I'd like to track her down and see if anything is up since she hasn't actually appeared in the quest yet)

Mostly, I don't want the completely unnecessary lie that we don't know who they are. We do know, and pretending we don't will only encourage those who don't to waste their time and effort trying to help us fill in the blanks and might put them both in more danger. If we don't want to name names, then referring to them as our friends would be both more honest and would better communicate our unwillingness to act against them.

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That sounds like a good compromise. We can describe what happened and say that the girls involved are alive in this timeline as humans rather than gods and are our friends without specifying exactly who

 

[Arum60]

Guys, we don't have to lie or obfuscate about any of this.

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That sounds like a good compromise. We can describe what happened and say that the girls involved are alive in this timeline as humans rather than gods and are our friends without specifying exactly who

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So, you want to explain the "War in Heaven" fully? Well, being as accurate as possible without stating specific names seems reasonable.

Things to note:

-We're going to need to dance around the infohazards.

-We don't have concrete facts on how the conflict is progressing. At most, we can guess that they're attempting to rip each other apart in an attempt to save the other. We can assume that this has resulted in fragmentation, given Oriko's vision. And we don't know how . . . Human and/or reasonable they are. We should probably tell them this.

-We're going to need nicknames besides Madokami and Homucifer when referring to the gods. I've nicknamed the (likely ongoing) conflict as "The War in Heaven". We can use the Law/The Law of Cycles for Madokami, and Homucifer can be . . . Hmmm still workshoping that one.

We probably shouldn't use satanic comparisons. Maybe "The Breaker" or "The Shatterer"? "The Fallen Angel" probably won't work . . .

"Her Beloved" could work? "The Abandoned One" perhaps.

 

[Nerevar]

-We're going to need to dance around the infohazards.

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Everyone here knows at the very least that the Witchbomb exists as a horrible truth they don't yet know. We don't have to go into what it is to tell them that this horrible truth is what Madoka learned and what her wish was supposed to fix. We also don't need to go into details to inform them that we know that we have observed said horrible truth to still be true, and thus that wish cannot currently be in effect.

I don't expect this to be difficult to dance around. Homura's loops and their connection to Madoka's potential are irrelevant and don't need to come up except if the question of how anyone could have the potential to make a wish like that comes up, and there we can just refuse to answer.

What other infohazards do you see us needing to dance around?

-We don't have concrete facts on how the conflict is progressing. At most, we can guess that they're attempting to rip each other apart in an attempt to save the other. We can assume that this has resulted in fragmentation, given Oriko's vision. And we don't know how . . . Human and/or reasonable they are. We should probably tell them this.

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Oriko's note used the singular when referring to the missing fragment. To me, that does not suggest ongoing conflict or further fragmentation. Indeed, it suggests a single break.

I agree that we still don't know what state either of them are in, but I think that goes without saying if we provide a relatively complete summary of what we do know.

-We're going to need nicknames besides Madokami and Homucifer when referring to the gods. I've nicknamed the (likely ongoing) conflict as "The War in Heaven". We can use the Law/The Law of Cycles for Madokami, and Homucifer can be . . . Hmmm still workshoping that one.

We probably shouldn't use satanic comparisons. Maybe "The Breaker" or "The Shatterer"? "The Fallen Angel" probably won't work . . .

"Her Beloved" could work? "The Abandoned One" perhaps.

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We don't need to get grandiose with the names used to protect the innocent, especially if we want to emphasize their fundamental humanity. Clara would be an appropriate one for Homufer given the name of her familiars.

 

[Arum60]

What other infohazards do you see us needing to dance around?

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That was about it, actually

We don't need to get grandiose with the names used to protect the innocent, especially if we want to emphasize their fundamental humanity. Clara would be an appropriate one for Homufer given the name of her familiars.

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Grandiose names are *fun* though

But yea, Law and Clara could work.

Oriko's note used the singular when referring to the missing fragment. To me, that does not suggest ongoing conflict or further fragmentation. Indeed, it suggests a single break.

I agree that we still don't know what state either of them are in, but I think that goes without saying if we provide a relatively complete summary of what we do know.

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The reason that I think the conflict is ongoing and that there may be multiple fragments is due to the vast and accusal nature of the participants. However, yes, it only mentioned one. So we have one piece here, presumably of Law. (While I think there's more out there, the rest likely don't matter at the moment)

Edit: So, yea, speculation.

But however things are going, I think "very, very bad" is a good assumption.

 

[ExploerTM]

We're going to need nicknames besides Madokami and Homucifer when referring to the gods. I've nicknamed the (likely ongoing) conflict as "The War in Heaven". We can use the Law/The Law of Cycles for Madokami, and Homucifer can be . . . Hmmm still workshoping that one.

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The Goddess and The Devil is entirely reasonable nicknames.

Also I wont stand slandering, Homura didnt have proper childhood, leave her dress alone and let her be, she deserved to have edgy teenage phase dammit. Its a sacred right of every teenager!



I still find it super sus that everything points at Akumura. Meta reasons is that Feathers supposed to be this unseen, unknown lurking threat but like, if we know its Akumura all these hide and seek look as silly as Homu declaring herself ultimate evil and then giving everyone happy ending. ...which kind of tracks now that I think about it. ANYWAY. Second reason is motive, Akumura has no reason to try and stop us because even if Sabrina is shard of LoC, she does EXACTLY what Akumura would've wanted - keeps Madoka the hell away from Godhood, from all mystical bullshit for that matter really. I am racking my brain trying to come up with explanation WHY Akumura would do all these pointless hide and seek instead of just strolling up to Sabrina and teaming up officially or just taking hands off approach and let us do our thing. LoC on other hand... Look, Madokami is a bit stubborn ok? She might still believe that LoC is better solution than anything we could come up with and if Akumura split LoC into its own entity, well, this thing might not even be Madoka anymore in any capacity. LoC however tried to reconnect to Madoka first opportunity its got so it might still look for her.

"But Oriko saw that she dies!" Well yeah, but guess what: being taken into the LoC is equivalent of dying. I rest my case.

 

[Nerevar]

Side note, if we are post-Rebellion, barring Sabrina's presence, the world we see now doesn't look like what either Madokami or Homufer wanted. It does look exactly like what Kyubey wanted, right down to Madoka still having her potential.

 

[Arum60]

Akumura has no reason to try and stop us because even if Sabrina is shard of LoC, she does EXACTLY what Akumura would've wanted - keeps Madoka the hell away from Godhood, from all mystical bullshit for that matter really. I am racking my brain trying to come up with explanation WHY Akumura would do all these pointless hide and seek instead of just strolling up to Sabrina and teaming up officially or just taking hands off approach and let us do our thing. LoC on other hand... Look, Madokami is a bit stubborn ok? She might still believe that LoC is better solution than anything we could come up with and if Akumura split LoC into its own entity, well, this thing might not even be Madoka anymore in any capacity. LoC however tried to reconnect to Madoka first opportunity its got so it might still look for her.

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So, there's a bit less logic to it.

Which could support a half-mad fragment or affiliate tasked with grabbing . . . Something.

And, thinking about it, even assuming that there's still some Madoka in the LoC at this point, it's dubious if we can say that it's really her.

Same goes for Homucifer.

We should treat PMAS Madoka and Homura as distinct entities from their divine counterparts. They may have had similar origins, but what happened has deviated a lot from canon.

(Same can likely be said of Sayaka and Mami, by the way)

Edit: On the whole "Is the LoC really Madoka?" thing, there's quite a few things that support that she isn't. Namely, being a god.

And some of her actions seem dubious. Like assimilating all her alternate versions, who had little to do with this besides being "related" to her, and leaving Homura behind. Granted, we're not sure how much of this she had control over, but it's something to note.

And we're not actually sure what happens to the souls she collects. We assume it's a magical girl heaven of sorts, but we don't know what that entails.

While we have less info on Homucifer, but "extreme emotional distress from Incubator field" and "becoming a god" definitely count for something.

So, you could probably argue about wether Madokami and Homucifer really count as Madoka and Homura. It's a Ship of Theseus problem, I suppose.

But we definitely should treat them differently from PMAS Madoka and Homura. They're related, perhaps even affiliates or fragments, but putting them into the same person box is inaccurate and will only lead to problems.

Edit: And, depending on how they're organized, treating all of the LoC as one person could be inaccurate. Same can go for Homucifer.

 

[DataSnake]

It does look exactly like what Kyubey wanted, right down to Madoka still having her potential.

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Well, not exactly. I mean, all the deviations from pre-Madokami canon are things that make the world easier to fix, and that's directly contrary to his goals. Nagisa isn't a meguca, Asunaro isn't a massive clusterfuck that's about to produce the strongest Witch this side of Waluigi Night, Oriko and Kirika are actually helping everyone instead of trying to be Hard Girls Making Hard Choices, and so on.

Also, all this talk about Homucifer's power makes me want to add "see if we can Griefhax up a Star Sapphire ring for Homura" to the SCIENCE! list. Her love for Madoka is canonically the most powerful thing in the multiverse, and I think it'd do her some good to land the finishing blow on Wally personally.

 

[Romka]

The Law is broken. She searches for the missing fragment.

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Well, between this and the black feathers, that certainly sounds like Homucifer. But who is the missing fragment? Madoka? Sabrina? Past Madoka's wish?

On less important topics,

A spark of paranoia has you checking for Witch names, steeling yourself against the graveyard whispers sliding into your mind.

Phytia, Philotes.

Hestia.

Laverna, Alice.

Ophelia. Pistis.

Candeloro.

Dedolere, sliding fingernails down your spine.

Everything as it should be, then - everyone as they should be. Especially Kyouko, who... OK, sure, you know she was brought up as a devout pastor's daughter, you know she has to have learned how to actually get along with people. But it's still jarring enough to see her actually try that you had to be sure - and it's a relief, you suppose.

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You're right, that is pretty paranoid. "Kyoko isn't displaying a complete lack of tact? What if she's an imposter!?"

"It is something that one can get used to," Mami offers. "There's a distinct note of Sabrina in there that distinguishes it from ordinary Witch barriers - not something that's easily picked out, unfortunately, but it's somehow reassuring, I've found."

Yuki nods slowly, a frown stealing across her forehead.

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I bet that frown is Yuki putting it together that that note of Sabrina is Sabrina's witch.

 

[Nerevar]

Also, all this talk about Homucifer's power makes me want to add "see if we can Griefhax up a Star Sapphire ring for Homura" to the SCIENCE! list. Her love for Madoka is canonically the most powerful thing in the multiverse, and I think it'd do her some good to land the finishing blow on Wally personally.

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Plus it'd be a nice, poetic "fuck you" to Kyubey to have her do it using technology invented by the same race that invented entropy in the first place.

You're right, that is pretty paranoid. "Kyoko isn't displaying a complete lack of tact? What if she's an imposter!?"

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I'll defend it. When you have enemies able to shape shift and/or body snatch, double checking when there's any behavior out of the norm is just good sense, even when that behavior is superficially positive.

Doctor Octopus would not have had control of Peter Parker's body nearly as long as he did if Peter's so-called friends and allies had taken note of him suddenly becoming a successful entrepreneur who's life wasn't constantly on the brink of imploding and done even the most basic checks.

If you wait until they do something actually problematic, you're failing to do your due diligence, especially when we have a method of checking that's as quick and harmless as checking Witch names is.

I bet that frown is Yuki putting it together that that note of Sabrina is Sabrina's witch.

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I assume she's just concentrating and trying to pick out the difference Mami described.

 

[DataSnake]

If you wait until they do something actually problematic, you're failing to do your due diligence, especially when we have a method of checking that's as quick and harmless as checking Witch names is.

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To paraphrase Justin McElroy, the girl who double-checks everyone's Witch names whenever someone acts out of character is a fool every time but the one that matters.

 

[JIMI94]

I think Feathers is either/or Akuma Homura/Akuma Madoka (a freaked out Law of Cycles that I suspect is behaving differently from when Madoka is a part of it), with slight favor to Homura since that's her aesthetic. In the end Homura wants Madoka to have a happy and full life, and Madoka/The Law of Cycles wants to address the witch problem (and probably reconnect with Madoka, though to what lengths the Law woukd go to do so I'm unsure of), and addressing these will probably be part of getting their whole selves to deescalate.

Beyond that, I think the only thing I feel certain of is that the missing loop(s), changes in this timeline, our existence, and why the two juggernauts we know and care for don't seem to be aware of where we are (and so haven't just immediately Koolaid-man'ed into this world) are related to a post Rebellion-like Madoka using a wish to try to fix things. It wouldn't surprise me if Madoka couldn't really match up to Homura or the rest of the LoC, but using her power to fuel a wish let her leverage it way better.

Beyond that, I feel like everything gets more and more speculative. Even this stuff I'm not sure about. I'm gonna go think about fallout 4 now.