Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

[prof_Chemical]

i would prefer to shut her down as she is playing bad faith games with us, the longer we let her prattle on, the more opportunities she has to throw curveballs at us or try to tip us up. sure, SV could get it right everytime, but what if someone on our team we dont directly contol get's thier buttons pushed and flies of the handle? probsbly not a concern yet but keep it in mind for the votes after this one

 

[Angrygenius]

i would prefer to shut her down as she is playing bad faith games with us, the longer we let her prattle on, the more opportunities she has to throw curveballs at us or try to tip us up. sure, SV could get it right everytime, but what if someone on our team we dont directly contol get's thier buttons pushed and flies of the handle? probsbly not a concern yet but keep it in mind for the votes after this one

Click to shrink...

And we most likely will if/when she continues on. But not now, it's too early into this little game.

Besides, she may reveal something juicy if we play our cards right.

 

[SaintBenot]

i would prefer to shut her down as she is playing bad faith games with us, the longer we let her prattle on, the more opportunities she has to throw curveballs at us or try to tip us up. sure, SV could get it right everytime, but what if someone on our team we dont directly contol get's thier buttons pushed and flies of the handle? probsbly not a concern yet but keep it in mind for the votes after this one

Click to shrink...

I'd say that letting her speak is in our best interests, for all we know she has genuine grievances with Chiyoda, Immediately shutting her down like that could lead to them thinking we're in league with her.

 

[memoryofglory]

In responding to this we have 3 goals:
1- Prevent Meiji from turning this into a referendum on Chiyoda/Toshimichi
2- Prevent Chiyoda/Toshimichi from being able to use this as a pretext to marginalize their rivals or claim to have some kind of privileged relationship with us.
3- Further clarify our position.

[X] Deliberately misunderstand. "Do you mean Fukishima? I know they've been in conflict with a lot of magical girls, but..." If we have time expound on our confidence in them as allies and that we're sure we can mediate and resolve any future conflicts that might come from those grudges.
-They probably respond with 'No I mean Toshimichi/Chiyoda/that bitch there!'
--Cut them off. "I'm not here to work for any particular team, I'm here to provide cleansing to everyone in Tokyo, and I mean everyone. The Iowa girls are murderous vagabonds who won't be walking free for a long time, but I don't even deny them cleansing. I'm not in any position to weigh in on your internal disputes right now, and even if I was I consider it irrelevant to the matter I'm here to place before this assembly. Is Tokyo willing to allow a member of Constellation to claim a building in the city to be used as an embassy that will contain a clear seed? Whether you want cleansing or just want to talk to us, our doors will be open to everyone. And if you really hate your neighbors that much fighting Walpurgisnacht is not a requirement for moving to Mitakihara."

I'm not used to crafting votes so if anyone thinks they can make this flow better or just wants to hack it apart feel free. I want to get across that-
1. We're willing to work with people who have done bad things before.
2. Yes literally everyone deserves cleansing.
3. No we're not willing to forgive literally anything in your past, and especially not in your future.
4. We're not here to drag anyone into the Walpurgisnacht battle who doesn't want to come.
5. Still imply that we are willing to hear them and anyone else out later, just not right now.

And we most likely will if/when she continues on. But not now, it's too early into this little game.

Besides, she may reveal something juicy if we play our cards right.

Click to shrink...

I'd say that letting her speak is in our best interests, for all we know she has genuine grievances with Chiyoda, Immediately shutting her down like that could lead to them thinking we're in league with her.

Click to shrink...

If we don't respond to her then Toshimichi will, and that cedes the momentum to her. I don't trust Toshimichi not to try to use us to marginalize her rivals. And if Meiji does keep the momentum, we just wasted our entrance and pitch on a meeting about to get bogged down with local disputes.

It's more valuable to be able to talk to her in private later where we can speak freely about witches and junk. Anything she has to say in public will be of little use, inflamatory, dangerous, or all three.

 

[Menthewarp]

[X] Let Chiyoda handle it
Remember, it's about the people.

Specifically, the Tokyo Group are Toshimichi's people, even if we don't trust her completely, it is not Sabrina's role to bulldoze over local politics, and it is not Sabrina's destiny to say who has to be friendly with who, and how that friendship should be performed.

We are asking them to play nice; we are using the context of the Clear Seed proposal to the ends of making our stance clear, to let them know the faces behind the miracle cure, independent of any conditionals needed to qualify for cleansing, of which the only line-in-the-sand commandments are "do not steal Clear Seeds" and "do not enslave other magical girls".



We are hoping to convert some or all of the Tokyo Group to the Constellation's ideals, we are hoping to provide immediate salvation for magical girls locked into toxic political circumstances, we are hoping to defuse the Tokyo Group powder-keg and remove from the list of "things that are on fire", we are hoping to solve the riddle of Toshimichi And The Lorax, we are hoping to finger the scales of fate in favor of a golden ending, we are hoping to have the Constellation to be recognized as a force for good and justice we are hoping for the Tokyo Group to believe us when we say that Sabrina will forgive anyone magical girl of any criminal background short of magical girl slavers...


Yet, if Sabrina walks out of this meeting with all of our hopes dashed, with the only result being that the Clear Seed Station is successfully established, then that is still an absolute victory!

 

[memoryofglory]

[X] Let Chiyoda handle it
Remember, it's about the people.

Specifically, the Tokyo Group are Toshimichi's people, even if we don't trust her completely, it is not Sabrina's role to bulldoze over local politics, and it is not Sabrina's destiny to say who has to be friendly with who, and how that friendship should be performed.

Click to shrink...

Yes it's about the people, but there's that little thing with the mind control/memory modification going on we can't forget about. We don't want to give the impression that we're supporting Chiyoda at the expense of girls who feel victimized by them. Meiji certainly don't consider themselves Toshimichi's people the way you're implying. We also don't want to give the impression we're entertaining overthrowing Chiyoda just based on whatever Meiji has to say here. The best way around those is to be our good old social bulldozer self and keep the meeting on topic. And I don't see anyone trying to dictate who needs to be friends with who?

 

[Muramasa]

I'd say that letting her speak is in our best interests, for all we know she has genuine grievances with Chiyoda, Immediately shutting her down like that could lead to them thinking we're in league with her.

Click to shrink...

Indeed. I'm not interested in suppressing a voice of discontent. Or anyone's voice really.

 

[Qoheleth]

[X] Deliberately misunderstand. "Do you mean Fukishima? I know they've been in conflict with a lot of magical girls, but..." If we have time expound on our confidence in them as allies and that we're sure we can mediate and resolve any future conflicts that might come from those grudges.
-They probably respond with 'No I mean Toshimichi/Chiyoda/that bitch there!'
--Cut them off. "I'm not here to work for any particular team, I'm here to provide cleansing to everyone in Tokyo, and I mean everyone. The Iowa girls are murderous vagabonds who won't be walking free for a long time, but I don't even deny them cleansing. I'm not in any position to weigh in on your internal disputes right now, and even if I was I consider it irrelevant to the matter I'm here to place before this assembly. Is Tokyo willing to allow a member of Constellation to claim a building in the city to be used as an embassy that will contain a clear seed? Whether you want cleansing or just want to talk to us, our doors will be open to everyone. And if you really hate your neighbors that much fighting Walpurgisnacht is not a requirement for moving to Mitakihara."

I'm not used to crafting votes so if anyone thinks they can make this flow better or just wants to hack it apart feel free. I want to get across that-
1. We're willing to work with people who have done bad things before.
2. Yes literally everyone deserves cleansing.
3. No we're not willing to forgive literally anything in your past, and especially not in your future.
4. We're not here to drag anyone into the Walpurgisnacht battle who doesn't want to come.
5. Still imply that we are willing to hear them and anyone else out later, just not right now.

Click to shrink...

Deliberate misunderstanding as a first move is an interesting approach too - it'd defuse the trick question by forcing her to either give up this line of questioning or else say the quiet part loud. I think the immediate reframing is a stronger rejoinder in terms of, eh, raw rhetoric? But forcing the clarification has the potential to give more info on what's going on here. Would like to hear others' thoughts on this.

OTOH I'm not super enthusiastic about airing our laundry in the rebuttal. Iowa and Walpurgisnacht - for those who even understand the references - would probably both be Big News for all those assembled, & have the potential to further derail this conversation off our main action item of "can we open a cleansing center". If we really want to make a point about "as long as they're behaving, even ex-villains get to cleanse", I think the Sendai debacle would be a better example to bring up, since North Tokyo was actually involved in that (& so the Council is likely to actually have the context).

 

[memoryofglory]

Indeed. I'm not interested in suppressing a voice of discontent. Or anyone's voice really.

Click to shrink...

The problem is that she's trying to express discontent with Chiyoda and tie us to Chiyoda at the same time. We should make it clear to her that we aren't here to help impose Chiyoda's will on Tokyo, leave ourselves open to hearing her grievances later, and be clear that now isn't the time. Like, you don't need to address the entire Tokyo council to talk to us, and you shouldn't really.

Deliberate misunderstanding as a first move is an interesting approach too - it'd defuse the trick question by forcing her to either give up this line of questioning or else say the quiet part loud. I think the immediate reframing is a stronger rejoinder in terms of, eh, raw rhetoric? But forcing the clarification has the potential to give more info on what's going on here. Would like to hear others' thoughts on this.

OTOH I'm not super enthusiastic about airing our laundry in the rebuttal. Iowa and Walpurgisnacht - for those who even understand the references - would probably both be Big News for all those assembled, & have the potential to further derail this conversation off our main action item of "can we open a cleansing center". If we really want to make a point about "as long as they're behaving, even ex-villains get to cleanse", I think the Sendai debacle would be a better example to bring up, since North Tokyo was actually involved in that (& so the Council is likely to actually have the context).

Click to shrink...

True Sendai might be better for that part, but I want to bring up Walpurgisnacht because it isn't dirty laundry, but they think it is. It's been mentioned that one of the worries these groups already have is that we're trying to drag them into that fight, so we should address it. If we don't address it now someone's probably going to bring it up later.

 

[Qoheleth]

True Sendai might be better for that part, but I want to bring up Walpurgisnacht because it isn't dirty laundry, but they think it is. It's been mentioned that one of the worries these groups already have is that we're trying to drag them into that fight, so we should address it. If we don't address it now someone's probably going to bring it up later.

Click to shrink...

Ohhh right. I had forgotten that HRH had brought up Walpurgis as something a few groups here would know (and be worried) about. We've already covered the "no strings attached" bit as part of our initial pitch, but if we have a chance to re-emphasize the lack of strings, specifically promising a lack of Walpurgis entanglements might be good to include in it.

...although it's interesting that she phrased that statement as "not common knowledge, but not totally unknown either". Coming from someone who found out our names and the name of our group ahead of time, that's sorta ringing "spacecat wordplay" bells. After all, she's likely to know, even if no-one else does.

Edit: Actually, point of order, since I haven't done much "write-in" in voting in explicitly tallied quests before: how do these sorts of "direct quote" votes work? Is it required/expected that we provide explicit phrasing for Sabrina's argument, or can it be described in higher level terms instead?

 

[prof_Chemical]

a rhetorical trick i totally forgot we could use!! we could just say "what do you mean?" with a bewildered head tilt. that way we dont have to play passive agressive 5d chess by deliberately misinterpreting (which gives away we knew what she meant ib the first place) just another option we could take.
like we dont even have to acknowledge that we are deflecting

 

[memoryofglory]

[X] "Of course I don't, I only just met all of you. I'm not here to work for any particular team, I'm here to provide cleansing to everyone in Tokyo, and I mean everyone. The Sendai girls caused a lot of pain and suffering, but I don't even deny them cleansing. I'm not in any position to weigh in on your internal disputes right now, and even if I was I consider it irrelevant to the matter I'm here to place before this assembly. Is Tokyo willing to allow a member of Constellation to claim a building in the city to be used as an embassy that will contain a clear seed? Whether you want cleansing or just want to talk to us, our doors will be open to everyone. And if you really hate your neighbors that much fighting witches for us is not a requirement for moving to Mitakihara."

New idea, more straightforward.

 

[Muramasa]

I kinda like where this one is going though I'd rather not name drop Sendai. Could use some rewording I think.

edit: also saying we're not in a position to weigh in on internal disputes gives the impression we won't be able to do anything in a useful capacity.

 

[memoryofglory]

I kinda like where this one is going though I'd rather not name drop Sendai. Could use some rewording I think.

edit: also saying we're not in a position to weigh in on internal disputes gives the impression we won't be able to do anything in a useful capacity.

Click to shrink...

'weigh in on them right now' Which is true. We need vastly more information, and even once we get that information it still doesn't change our current offer. But it's open ended enough and implies we might be willing to in the future.

The other thing is we could use an example to prove that we really stand by everyone deserves cleansing. I don't care if we use Iowa, She-who-must-not-be-named, or Sendai but we need an example that says 'None of your grievances are grounds for me to withhold cleansing.' Not that the grievances don't matter, but that we won't compromise on cleansing.

 

[Architect Iront.]

[X] Yes—you. All of you. We intend to work and co-operate with every girl in Tokyo on this. That is why we came here, on our own initiative, to offer our resources and help to you directly, if you are willing to accept it.

This is my vote until further notice. Letting either faction get control of the narrative is likely to derail the meeting and make this entire trip a waste of time.

 

[Spectral Waltz]

[X] Yes—you. All of you. We intend to work and co-operate with every girl in Tokyo on this. That is why we came here, on our own initiative, to offer our resources and help to you directly, if you are willing to accept it.

i would prefer to shut her down as she is playing bad faith games with us, the longer we let her prattle on, the more opportunities she has to throw curveballs at us or try to tip us up. sure, SV could get it right everytime, but what if someone on our team we dont directly contol get's thier buttons pushed and flies of the handle? probsbly not a concern yet but keep it in mind for the votes after this one

Click to shrink...

If she has a legitimate grievance and we let her talk, then we can evaluate it and respond appropriately.

If she doesn't have a legitimate grievance then she'll just be digging her own grave.

Either way, letting her talk is fine so long as we make sure that she doesn't spread any outright lies about the situation

The problem is that she's trying to express discontent with Chiyoda and tie us to Chiyoda at the same time. We should make it clear to her that we aren't here to help impose Chiyoda's will on Tokyo, leave ourselves open to hearing her grievances later, and be clear that now isn't the time. Like, you don't need to address the entire Tokyo council to talk to us, and you shouldn't really.

Click to shrink...

Basically this, the only part of this that's actually a problem is that she's trying to tie us to Chiyoda. So long as we can make it clear that she's objectively wrong to suggest such a thing, then I have no problem with her airing her grievances in public. I want to hear what her issue is with them.

tbh, I don't entirely trust Chiyoda, and I refuse to engage in tactics that woudl prevent those who are so vehemently opposed to them from saying their piece. They must have a reason for their anger after all.

 

[prof_Chemical]

i was jumping the gun a bit, but she framed us like we were an extension of chiyoda instead of our own thing, which makes it an attack against us, by dragging us down with chiyoda's baggage.

 

[Spectral Waltz]

i was jumping the gun a bit, but she framed us like we were an extension of chiyoda instead of our own thing, which makes it an attack against us, by dragging us down with chiyoda's baggage.

Click to shrink...

Yes, so we make it clear that we're not an extension. There's no need to burn the entire forest just to deal with a handful of diseased trees.

 

[Godwinson]

There's absolutely no need for us to get into an idiotic pissing contest over who's more """alpha""" here.

 

[Menthewarp]

I have no problem with her airing her grievances in public. I want to hear what her issue is with them.

Click to shrink...

Or... we could talk to them later, via disposable Sayaka clones, since we clearly do not trust these other girls to be civil and open unless under the stress of being in the middle of a Mexican standoff!

We were warned specifically about this: that the Tokyo Council is habitually used by its members for two things: policy update affirmation-dissemination-vetoing procedures, and screaming matches in the safety of a deliberately designed Mexican standoff scenario. Sabrina cannot change this habit, and cannot force the Tokyo Council societal mechanism into performing beyond its currently established functions in the eyes of its members.

Sabrina is not the political speaker of the group, that would be Mami Tomoe; let her speak where Sabrina would foot-in-mouth.
Sabrina is not the cabinet secretary of the group, that would be Sayaka; let her provide supporting overtures to back up Mami.
Sabrina is here as the Executive Officer of the group, who decides Group policy and signatures company activities with the endorsement of her position and the value-currency of her inherently exercisable raw power, that is all we can safely be in the eyes of irritable strangers eager to snipe fresh meat (fresh meat!) for clout.

Sabrina is the big stick and the ancient-greek-fasces wielded by Mami as she speaks-softly, and that is all Sabrina should be performing as in this highly volatile game of Magical Girl Mafia!
(would you trust Sabrina to win a game of Mafia? I don't! I really, really don't!!!)

[X] - Give Mami The Floor, mentally beg our girlfriend to navigate this minefield, as we trust her to know best when to tag us back in whenever the SabrinaDozer is needed next.

 

[Rainbow_Wailord]

[X] "You are absolutely right! We don't know who we are working with. Please, introduce yourselves!"
[X] As soon as the they finished introductions, move onto the next group, so they can't get a word in.

I want to hear them out, but doing it right now would force us to choose a side with incomplete information. Letting Chiyoda handle it would also be considered taking sides.
Saying that we won't take sides could get them to shut us out completely, also not really an option when Constellation was founded on Sabrina's chronic meddling.

I think the best strategy here is delay, delay, delay. Once the meeting ends we can get their side of the story without committing. Also I don't think we actually know who's who. So introductions would be a start for info gathering.

 

[JIMI94]

[X] Of course I don't, I only just met all of you, and regardless of what I do or do not learn I don't intend on denying anyone cleansing for any reason. I'm here today to see if Tokyo is willing to allow a member of Constellation to claim a building in the city to be used as an embassy that will contain a clear seed. Whether you want cleansing, to get away from fighting against witches or other girls, or just want to talk, our doors will be open to everyone.

This sounds good, makes it clear that Chiyoda can't tell us not to help someone, and makes it clear we are cool with people coming over for any reason, without expectations of fighting at all.

It also says we don't care about whatever bullshit slow clap guca could bomb the group with, but are open to letting her air her grievances where they can't hurt people.

 

[Wutnhammer]

[X] Yes—you. All of you. We intend to work and co-operate with every girl in Tokyo on this. That is why we came here, on our own initiative, to offer our resources and help to you directly, if you are willing to accept it.

A lot of good options but I think this is my favourite

 

[Julian Bradshaw]

We share the same goals. I, personally, have only been a magical girl for a couple of weeks, but I've known about this whole rotten system for much longer.

Click to shrink...

You know, this line is kind of strange. Were we lying? Sabrina knew about the system for all of a couple minutes before she contracted. What she said is only true in the broader sense that we, the thread participants, knew about the magical girl system long before the quest started.

I can't tell if this is just Sabrina lying about her background for reasons, or if it's supposed to be a hint towards something.

 

[JIMI94]

I think she's just lying because it would be weird to people that we have only existed for a few weeks, and also appeared knowing several folks.