Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

[Gadjo]

Yeah, gotta agree here. Bad take. Homura's deeply traumatized and does some questionable things but there's pretty much always a good reason for them. She is not a yandere. (You'll notice, for one, that in most of her plans, she does not become close to Madoka. She has given up on that and has dedicated herself fully to just saving her)

Homura was never going to hurt Sayaka because Homura never stopped time.

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Yeah, if Homura wants to kill someone, the last thing she does is kneel down in front of them and lay a hand on them. Hell, we see immediately after that why she would want to avoid physical contact if she was down to murder someone.

 

[AuraTwilight]

Remember kids, you're not a paranoid conspiracy theorist if they really are out to get you.

 

[jmcdavid]

Yeah...Homura needs and deserves All The Hugs.

 

[Burned_Cookie]

No matter what it takes. Madoka Kaname will be happy. She deserves it. And Homura will make that happen, even if she, herself, never

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Yea thos are all good points. Probably just read too many fanfics and started mixing fanon, you know how it is.

Especially when there's several properties out there I have no access to, that have been known to introduce crazy stuff that heavily contradicts my original interpretation of the world.

For example, I have still no idea where the alternate timelines instead of rewinds thing comes from? But it seems to be canon?

But yeah go off about how Homura is a yandere stalker who likes to kill people.

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So first you do an incredibly long post explaining your position very well, and then you follow it up with hostility? Are you trying to undermine your own work?

...

Also who said anything about yandere?:

 

[Angrygenius]

Just when I think the worst is over, the Varus kicks me in the head like Sabrina on caffeine and now I have a bitching headache.

Ugdfgdffgggggggg.

I hope this shit goes away soon.

Also WHAT THE SHIT DID I COME BACK TO

 

[Nerevar]

Ok that is... worrying. You do realise she is an insane stalker who commits everything up to homicide to ensure that the person she loves is her very own unique brand of choice denieing protected?

That she would not and in any of the past timelines where such mattered did not hestiate to sacrifice arbitrary numbers of people for her singular goal of saving Madoka?

That she, if you accept the movies as valid canon, quite literally BROKE THE UNIVERSE TO KIDNAP MADOKA AND FORCE AND BRAINWASH HER INTO WHAT SHE THOUGH TO BE THE "RIGHT LIFE"?!

I like her, and I am quite impressed by the fact that she retains any shred of sanity after all she has been through, but that does not change the fact that she has done quite significant wrong.

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Homura always had the option of tying Madoka up in a basement and shooting Kyubey every time he showed up to try to offer her the chance to wish herself free. She never even considered that option, but it was always there.

Nah. If nothing else, she'd never kill anyone after becoming Homucifer because that could be a Madokami trigger, and despite what she tells people she loves Sayaka and the others so much that she needs them in her perfect dream world. Rebellion nailed that coffin shut for all time.

The better evidence is that she never was going to kill Sayaka in episode 8, and was just trying to scare her into caring about her own life and stopping her grief spiral. And I can prove that 100%.

Homura was never going to hurt Sayaka because Homura never stopped time.

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There are other signs too. Homura was threatening her with her magic bolts, when her actual go-to combat tools are her guns.

And, most importantly in my opinion, unlike Thor, Homura aimed for the head. And Sayaka doesn't keep her Soul Gem on her head.

 

[Gadjo]

So first you do an incredibly long post explaining your position very well, and then you follow it up with hostility? Are you trying to undermine your own work?

...

Also who said anything about yandere?:

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"Insane stalker" and "Yandere" have a lot of overlap, but either way, Homura is neither. Also, you made a rather strong claim about a well-liked character that the evidence doesn't bear out. Gotta expect to get some hostile responses for that, dude. Being irritated doesn't undermine one's point.

 

[Burned_Cookie]

Also WHAT THE SHIT DID I COME BACK TO

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I said something dumb, everbodys been dogpiling since.

Homura always had the option of tying Madoka up in a basement and shooting Kyubey every time he showed up to try to offer her the chance to wish herself free. She never even considered that option, but it was always there.

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See that's where my problem comes in.

In my head, whenever I don't actively correct for it, she did ever since I read that one fic where she did.

That wouldn't be an issue to correct for, if I hadn't read an utter overdose of PMMM fanfics recently on account off... *vague gesturing in all directions* so as I read more and more fics with poorer and poorer characterisation, my gut feel for the characters in question becomes more and more warped.

So if I remember to check wether my gut reaction matches the facts, I get a valid end result, if not, I'm reacting to the fandom version.

Had a similar problem a while back with Harty Potter.

"Insane stalker" and "Yandere" have a lot of overlap, but either way, Homura is neither. Also, you made a rather strong claim about a well-liked character that the evidence doesn't bear out. Gotta expect to get some hostile responses for that, dude. Being irritated doesn't undermine one's point.

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I was more confused about a long, calm well composed argument that pointed out where I had accidentally swapped out character traits and actions, followed by a mean spirited one liner when I didn't expect it.

Kinda cut surprisingly deep to be honest.

 

[Gadjo]

I was more confused about a long, calm well composed argument that pointed out where I had accidentally swapped out character traits and actions, followed by a mean spirited one liner when I didn't expect it.

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It is an argument that has been made before, and people who've been in this thread for awhile have gotten pretty thorny around it because once in awhile someone has to bring it up again, and most of them don't go "oops I was inserting character traits that weren't there from other fics" and it turns into a big dumb fight. Hence the hostility.

 

[Godwinson]

Just when I think the worst is over, the Varus kicks me in the head like Sabrina on caffeine and now I have a bitching headache.

Ugdfgdffgggggggg.

I hope this shit goes away soon.

Also WHAT THE SHIT DID I COME BACK TO

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Give you back your legions nostrils?

I was more confused about a long, calm well composed argument that pointed out where I had accidentally swapped out character traits and actions, followed by a mean spirited one liner when I didn't expect it.

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Oh no, we have another "Dumbledore calmly" moment. Because, uh, what about this--

She wishes, wishes, WISHES to go back, to unfuck this, to undo this, to be cool like Madoka said she could have been.

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Dammit. Dammit. DAMMIT. DAMMIT. This is worse this is WORSE THIS IS WORRRRSE!

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God dammit. Fucking for once. Fucking finally. This time, her last chance she'll EVER HAVE... she will save her.

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--reads to you as calm?

Aura was, almost literally, out of his head ranting that entire post.

 

[Redshirt Army]

[x] Hug Mami, and head home.
-[x] Poke Kyouko, see if she's spending the night.
--[x] If there's room, tell Homura she's free to spend the night if she wants to.

[x] See how Kyouko and Sayaka doing, let them know you want to hang out with them and do a big hunt on Monday.

[x] Before you sleep:
-[x] Double check if you have enough mind protection enchantments for everyone for tomorrow.
-[x] Confirm Grief Seed clearing with Ishinomaki for the morning.
--[x] Mention that if Yuuki is interested, you'd like to set up some longer term agreement to pay her for her services in the future.
-[x] Check with the University Group about the Tome group.
-[x] Book a restaurant for dinner with Mami tomorrow.

Just a minor vote tweak.

 

[DB_Explorer]

[X] Redshirt Army

[JK] Bemoan not wishing for a vacation when you became a magical girl.

 

[Nerevar]

[JK] Bemoan not wishing for a vacation when you became a magical girl.

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Given Firn's hints about what would have happened if we'd wished for a cake, I'm now trying to visualise what powerset we'd end up with if we had wished for a vacation.

 

[memoryofglory]

Given Firn's hints about what would have happened if we'd wished for a cake, I'm now trying to visualise what powerset we'd end up with if we had wished for a vacation.

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Yo guys, let's ditch this reality, go ask Sailor Moon if she can fix our souls, and then just go have a freaking Pokemon adventure. Cute animal friends for everyone!

Edit: On second thought cute animal therapy might actually trigger ptsd in this case. How about My Little Pony, or we crash a normal school slice of life anime and give Kyouko, Mami, and Homura the school experience they deserve? We can all be mysterious transfer students!

 

[SaltyWaffles]

Yea thos are all good points. Probably just read too many fanfics and started mixing fanon, you know how it is.

Especially when there's several properties out there I have no access to, that have been known to introduce crazy stuff that heavily contradicts my original interpretation of the world.

For example, I have still no idea where the alternate timelines instead of rewinds thing comes from? But it seems to be canon?

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Because, unfortunately, far too many people are hopelessly bad at understanding the works they view/read. They see Homura tearing Madoka from the Law of Cycles and assume that Homura is in the wrong. They assume that Homura's self-loathing means that Homura is a bad person. I've even seen dedicated critics claim that Homura was always a bad person, somehow completely fucking forgetting how PMMM would have been nothing but a hopeless horror story if it weren't for her constant efforts, or how she never once does something for the sake of her own happiness.

So first you do an incredibly long post explaining your position very well, and then you follow it up with hostility? Are you trying to undermine your own work?

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Because you said something that really bothered people. You are welcome to say things that are on-topic and not against the rules, but that does not mean that you are free from the consequences of saying it. Saying "Homura is actually a bad person who did terrible things in canon and is romantically obsessed with Madoka" is not just a bad take; it's something plenty of people find offensive.

Also who said anything about yandere?:

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You did. Not literally, but the implication was all but stated. You painted her actions, motivations, and mindset as abusive, controlling, and obsessive, saying that Homura would sacrifice countless people for Madoka, when none of that is true.

 

[King Washington]

Homura didn't do "nothing wrong" but you can certainly make a better argument in her defense then other characters/people that are mixed up with that meme (I'm looking at you Griffith and Hitler).

 

[SaltyWaffles]

Homura didn't do "nothing wrong" but you can certainly make a better argument in her defense then other characters/people that are mixed up with that meme (I'm looking at you Griffith and Hitler).

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Because Homura didn't do anything morally wrong. Indeed, she acted the way she did because she was trying to do what Madoka had asked her to do. And separating Madoka from the Law of Cycles? Homura did that because the Incubators were going to undo Madoka's wish and kill or imprison her, while at the same time knowing that Madoka did not want to be erased from existence in the first place.

What she did wrong was in terms of execution, not morality.

 

[Burned_Cookie]

reads to you as calm?

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All of that actually, I read it as them doing a rather dramatic speech, to get across what Homura feel?

I was actually going to complement them on that excellent piece of delivery before I read the final line.

Dumbledore calmly

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Dumbledore calmly did what?

Yo guys, let's ditch this reality, go ask Sailor Moon if she can fix our souls,

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Hey, theres no need to ditch this reality to get a vacation if we got access to Usagi. She and her allies deals with nigh all powerfull forces after an infinite energy sources all the time, we could get actual experts on the job!

Given Firn's hints about what would have happened if we'd wished for a cake, I'm now trying to visualise what powerset we'd end up with if we had wished for a vacation.

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The ability to pause time and transport an arbitrary number of people into a barrier under our command at will?

 

[King Washington]

Okay for bad hot takes I've come across, I have seen the bizarre claim that Homura doesn't really love Madoka, but actually "lusts" after her. Like are we even watching the same show/movie?

The closest "evidence" for this is that Homura blushed that one time Madoka jumped on her and her devil outfit is skimpy (ignoring that every other time she dresses the most conservatively out of the Quintet and the only one who got to see her in the dress was Kyubey). I mean there's no doubt a physical dimension to her attraction to Madoka (hormonal teenager and all) but like seriously, what?

Dumbledore calmly did what?

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[Burned_Cookie]

The closest "evidence" for this is that Homura blushed that one time Madoka jumped on her

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I think most of that is because of the devil imagery.

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Dumbledore used tackle! It was not very effective...

 

[Unaligned Player]

Okay for bad hot takes I've come across, I have seen the bizarre claim that Homura doesn't really love Madoka, but actually "lusts" after her. Like are we even watching the same show/movie?

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Lust has sometimes been portrayed as an attempt to emotionally fulfill oneself when their happiness is as fleeting as fire.

 

[Raiseth]

Given Firn's hints about what would have happened if we'd wished for a cake, I'm now trying to visualise what powerset we'd end up with if we had wished for a vacation.

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We'd be able to make Soul Gems and Witches spontaneously chillax
The more time someone spent without a vacation, the stronger the effect
Walpurgisnacht wouldn't have even stood a chance

 

[HeroCycle]

We can all be mysterious transfer students!

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Sabrina may be one of the least "mysterious" unknown girls we could ever meet, but playing out that role would certainly be fun for us, and everyone!

Why are we not poking at IRC? The exploration of our International comms needs lots of small efforts. Being available online is a valid way to build up our presence.


Since far less inference is involved to understand the truth of Homura IC, I was and still am saying that we should publicly re-examine our "assumptions" about Madoka.
IMHO, her inner life is only readable with further effort. And it would be wise for us to become as correct as possible - are we missing something, a facet of Madoka that we should be focusing on prior to QM highlighting it for us?

Removed auto-action, added IRC:


[X] Offer jointly, tell Homura she's free to spend the night if she wants to.

[X] Let Kyouko and Sayaka know you want to hang out with them and do a big hunt on Monday.
-[X] Poke Kyouko, see if she's spending the night.

[X] Before you sleep:
-[X] Book a restaurant for dinner with Mami tomorrow.
-[X] Double check if you have enough mind protection enchantments for everyone for tomorrow.
-[X] Check IRC for 10 minutes
-[X] Confirm Grief Seed clearing with Ishinomaki for the morning.
--[X] Mention that if Yuuki is interested, you'd like to set up some longer term agreement to pay her for her services in the future.
-[X] Check with the University Group about the Tome group.

 

[Nerdasaurus Rex]

I'm actually curious if the news about Iowa has spread yet. I mean, we only did it... earlier today? I think? Time compression is weird.

 

[Burned_Cookie]

We'd be able to make Soul Gems and Witches spontaneously chillax
The more time someone spent without a vacation, the stronger the effect
Walpurgisnacht wouldn't have even stood a chance

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And QB would have dissolved into a puddle of very relaxed goo. At least once someone explained the concept of "time off" and "vacation" to him.

I'm actually curious if the news about Iowa has spread yet. I mean, we only did it... earlier today? I think? Time compression is weird.

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Pretty certain it was earlier today, yea. I´d presume the only ones that know yet are those directly involved with those that where directly involved.

Unless QB is actively aiding the news in spreading, that is.