Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
...that doesn't solve the underlying issues that cause the conflict. This just moves the conflict into more subtle, hidden, and obfuscated arenas.
If two opposing factions really hate each other and want to kill each other, forcibly preventing them from doing so by overwhelming force is, at best, a temporary solution. In the long term, it isn't sustainable. The existence of police forces does not prevent inter-gang violence within their jurisdictions. It lessens it, limits it, sure. But it's not so much "peace through superior firepower" as "take it outside".
Crasian01
Insane Incubator
Since I enjoy international politics, this is also kind of like looking at the Rwandan Genocide and deciding that doing a massive invasion is a good idea. Period Hutu Extremism wasn't going to vanish just because NATO dropped a few tons of bombs. It'd just get pushed down into a simmering, festering shitpool that would inevitably show up again. The invasion wouldn't really solve much at all.
Now, that being said, killing off particularly troublesome people isn't a bad plan. If certain individuals keep making situations worse, removing them from play is probably much, much, much more productive than trying to reason with them.
So, assuming something similar to this has happened, anyone have any thoughts on how do we fix this without A) witchbombing everyone or B) having them witchbomb, when we are not present, when they confront Kyubey about it? (B is worse than A, so just spreading "Kyubey is a liar" around isn't going to cut it.)
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I just realized that if we gave less fucks about the world, we could do like Moira Wild from Wild's Home for Parahumans (Worm SI): Set up shelter for parahumans magical girls who don't want to be heroes nor villians fight witches. 
Let's say we claim that KB's point of view is very alien, so he's simply interpreting things so as to make the Ishinomaki girls look at fault: He can answer that the Ishinomaki girls did very much pulverize Kato with their own hands. Nothing gets solved.
There's also the problem that this is only the beginning of the problem. It may be important, but nowhere near enough to stop the fighting.
We don't really know enough about the situation. Any argument we can come up to prove the Ishinomaki girls didn't kill Kato could be shot down by KB very easily, so long as the girls haven't been witchbombed.
Let's say we claim that KB's point of view is very alien, so he's simply interpreting things so as to make the Ishinomaki girls look at fault: He can answer that the Ishinomaki girls did very much pulverize Kato with their own hands. Nothing gets solved.
There's also the problem that this is only the beginning of the problem. It may be important, but nowhere near enough to stop the fighting.
Yeah... it's easy to corner him into witchbombing them for us, but that doesn't actually solve anything.
We could probably trick him into implying that she went crazy and attacked them / attacked civilians, but that doesn't really solve anything, and as long as they think we're talking about someone who was still basically human / their friend, they'll find some way to rationalize it.
I think that at some point it comes down to us not being able to keep the witchbomb a secret anymore. Don't you wish we'd told Mami when we had the chance?
If it helps, we could claim that the magical girl simply dies and is replaced by a witch rather than "turning into" a witch, and that Kyubey is simply wrong/lying about this, but that's probably all we can do to soften it. And even this goes against our long-term goal of not giving Kyubey any more grief seeds because we believe that they contain the eternally tortured soul of a magical girl. Secret Homura flag raised: being a witch is not necessarily suffering, therefore Kriemhild Gretchen is not necessarily bad end
Hmm... what about asking Kyubey for a list of all magical girls that whoever we're trying to convince have killed, with no further context, on the assumption that the inclusion of spurious names / the list being way too long will make them think he's full of shit? Mami asks "what are you getting at? / how did you know that would work?"
Last edited:
Muramasa
Best Girl
I'm not really talking about endless fighting. I'm talking about Akiko throwing the University Group out of Sendai for good. Given the circumstances, it's a perfectly reasonable reaction to take after the whole murder plot thing.
Can we really force them to deal with a group that's tried to kill them before?
Brute forcing the matter is suboptimal and won't work in the long term which is going to lead to someone getting killed.
And we can't exactly guarantee Oriko's going to be around forever.
We need better solutions then brute force.
Dissolve the Sendai group. Rin joins one of the other groups, Sakura joins us, Akiko becomes our prisoner. Who else was in the Sendai group and what are their individual roles in the conflict?
Crasian01
Insane Incubator
Or, maybe the University Group can take shelter in Mitakihara? It's not like we can't handle extra refugees. There is the issue of their families, but with Homura around faking their deaths shouldn't be that difficult.
...not that faking their deaths is the best plan here. I'm just saying, if push comes to shove, making Mitakihara into a refuge until a girl can get her feet back underneath her is not a terrible idea. It would be unwise not to expect them to begin contributing to the welfare of the group, but a grace period where they can get their head on straight or something seems entirely reasonable.
I like the idea, but there's still Walmart nightI just realized that if we gave less fucks about the world, we could do like Moira Wild from Wild's Home for Parahumans (Worm SI): Set up shelter forparahumansmagical girls who don't want tobe heroes nor villiansfight witches.
I thought we vaguely suspected that WN is fallout from this war, and/or that we will be able to make short work of it via tearing apart its grief anyway.
Crasian01
Insane Incubator
Well, that's like saying you can't give someone a place on the couch and some food because you're behind on your rent and are being evicted in a month. You can still give someone a slice of lasagna even if you're being evicted in a month, it's just a question of whether or not you can keep giving them lasagna later. For that matter, if they decide they really like your couch and your lasagna and get a job to help you try and meet your rent, you might even get to keep your apartment!
Plus we are able to create infinite lasagna with our mind, so even if our apartment is destroyed we can probably set up elsewhere with whoever survives.
Crasian01
Insane Incubator
Fuck, technically speaking, we can make a bloody apartment with our mind.
LASAGNA FOR EVERYBODY.
What if we take over Sendai? Like, the territory, not the group. Both the "Sendai group" and the University group work for us now *grief sunglasses appear in the sky and are telekinetically lowered onto our face* deal with it.
You know, since the existence of two groups in the same territory seems to be a big part of the source of the problem.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Problem being that we haven't have the chance. These things take time that we don't have. Hell, have the Ishinomaki girls been lichbombed yet?
Actually, maybe we can talk Kyubey into changing it's mind about the nature of witchification? We could share with him that an MG's witch's name is different from the MG's, and try to extrapolate from there that witches and MGs are different beings. It's too likely that KB already knows about the names, though. In which case revealing that we know that is only bad.Random832 said:
Maybe just asking him to list a couple of MGs the Sendai group has killed recently instead. Though it seems like a bad idea overall. Too likely to lead to witchbombs.Random832 said:
What if we keep things vague? "My power tells me that witches have distinct identities from the magical girl they would be born from, and already exist even while the magical girl is still alive." Secret goal unlocked: free Dedolere
Even if he knows about witch names generally, that doesn't mean that he knows that they already exist for living megucas.
Crasian01
Insane Incubator
You know, I wonder what would happen if we hadn't instantly hostile-mode with Kyubey and instead tried to learn more about how the Incubators designed magical girls.
...for that matter we should probably try and find out more about how the Incubators designed magical girls.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
That could help. Though... It may not. KB likely considers the soul gem, and by extension the MG, to be an egg from which the witch hatches. Knowing that the witch is already there before the grief spike may not change it's mind at all.
It's an exercise in getting him to retract his words about the Ishinomaki girls killing Kato and not revealing too much about ourselves. If that's the situation, of course.
Acting hostile towards KB likely doesn't matter if we want to work with him, though we likely don't want to. It would be illogical for him to refuse a beneficial exchange of information, after all.
Well, it seems to believe, now, that the witch is the MG, which is different from that (assuming, of course, that Kazumi bit can be relied on as canon and/or if something similar has happened here).
It does affect whether he is likely to believe that we are telling the truth.
Last edited:
Cannongerbil
I came here to nep at you
- Location
- Soviet Lunar Base
We discarded that theory due to a bunch of issues, mainly the fact that without our intervention, this war would have taken place a month later, long after Walpurgis has come and gone. Being able to defeat it fairly easily is still valid, though it probably too big to rip apart effectively. So we'll just blast it apart instead.
Uh, Kyubey may not have emotions, but that doesn't mean he is incapable of getting suspicious. He may not hold a grudge, but If we do a 180 in how we treat him, its still going to raise his suspicions.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Oh, we can still kick him out of rooftops and use him for throwing practice. No reason we can't have a chat while we're at it.
Last edited:
Cannongerbil
I came here to nep at you
- Location
- Soviet Lunar Base
You're missing my point. The point is that, due to the way we've been treating him, if we try to arrange a "Mutually beneficial exchange of information" upfront, he will be suspicious of what we are telling him, and thus be less likely to take any information we give him at face value. Unless we have demonstrable proof of our claims, trying to convince him that a MG and a witch are different entities is an exercise in futility, especially since it wouldn't really matter to him whether it is true or not.