It's worth noting that "unprovoked murder" is probably inaccurate unless we get more data. It's much more likely that whats-her-face died and Sendai jumped to unwise conclusions.
Somebody speculated that KB went and told the Sendai girls that the Ishinomaki girls had killed their friend, which would be true from KB's point of view if that girl witched and the Ishinomakis killed her afterwards.

Were this true, it wouldn't be useful knowledge right now unless we want to witchbomb a couple of dozen MGs. But if something like this did happen, somebody asking the wrong question would likely lead to KB revealing the truth. At that point, it's best if we can avoid any comparision to KB. If we're known to lie and twist the truth to our convenience we're gonna be put in the same bag as KB and we don't want that. We need to stay honest in order to build trust.

Also: the problem with lying is that it causes people to not trust you. Which is bad if you need them to trust you. And trust is kind of important in a long-term relationship, too.
I'm thinking: Should we reveal to the Ishinomaki girls that we cleansed Sendai's grief seeds? If they find out later, it's gonna make them feel betrayed. If we reveal that on our terms we could explain that we gave our word before knowing about this conflict and we could offer to cleanse five of their gems to even the board.
 
I was thinking: why would Kyubey want to do that? Why would he want to start a war between the MG groups? I thought before that the catrabbit would not want dead MGs due to PvP, because a dead MG is an unwitched MG.

But then, imagining the collateral damage a 22-meguca pileup would do on the mundanes... wouldn't that mean more contracts from girls who got their families and their livelihoods caught in the crossfire? Would be that enough to off-set the grief seed losses on from the dead MGs?

More shadowderps: Kyubey's pushing for the war because Sabrina's existence would mean less witches, thus less output from grief seeds, so it counteracts that by engineering situations that would boost the number of new contractees.
 
I was thinking: why would Kyubey want to do that? Why would he want to start a war between the MG groups? I thought before that the catrabbit would not want dead MGs due to PvP, because a dead MG is an unwitched MG.

It's easier to witch a magical girl then kill one. Most magical girls aren't even aware of the nature of their existences so an injury that would insure they can't interact with the outside world would witch them out quickly, but also death (if the magical girl believes they 'died') will also accelerate corruption (note Oriko's 'death' during the timestop hunt).

Plenty of ways to witch a girl out. War or no war.
 
I was thinking: why would Kyubey want to do that? Why would he want to start a war between the MG groups? I thought before that the catrabbit would not want dead MGs due to PvP, because a dead MG is an unwitched MG.

But then, imagining the collateral damage a 22-meguca pileup would do on the mundanes... wouldn't that mean more contracts from girls who got their families and their livelihoods caught in the crossfire? Would be that enough to off-set the grief seed losses on from the dead MGs?

More shadowderps: Kyubey's pushing for the war because Sabrina's existence would mean less witches, thus less output from grief seeds, so it counteracts that by engineering situations that would boost the number of new contractees.

I like my theory, which combines neatly with yours:

Incubator 719 therefore recommends that, in order to ensure maximal grief harvesting, that the conflict be left isolated and allowed to form its own conclusions for now, but kept at a constant low-intensity state. The long term gains created by having a constant state of unrest between all sides will be higher when normalized by generation. Most likely, implicating the Main Sendai Group in various actions considered "morally questionable" by humans will cause general disorder and unrest, but fail to result in actual widespread conflict. As new contractees are generated and are introduced to the conflict with other factions, they will produce increased grief in comparison to the standard model. Maximizing distrust between magical girl factions will allow for the maximization of such grief production, but care must be taken not to create irreconcilable rifts that will result in failures to maintain cohesion in the face of anomalous circumstances, such as Walpurgisnacht.
 
[x] Ugolino
I'm thinking: Should we reveal to the Ishinomaki girls that we cleansed Sendai's grief seeds? If they find out later, it's gonna make them feel betrayed. If we reveal that on our terms we could explain that we gave our word before knowing about this conflict and we could offer to cleanse five of their gems to even the board.
This seems like a logical action. Get it out there and come clean. Appear as an honest broker. Though something tells me the Ishinomaki aren't crucial, they seem to be a periphery player and might not have access to vital information. I think the University group is the mastermind of this side of the war so Sabrina needs to get to them. Perhaps contact them through Ishinomaki?
 
The university group is pretty much confirmed to be the ringleaders of the Ishinomaki alliance- though I guess we should start calling them the University alliance now- but I don't think it would be accurate the call the Sendai group a Periphery player. The entire war sprung up because the University group hated their guts enough to go to war over, so even if they didn't exactly start the war they certainly sowed the seeds of it. If the Sendai group go full tyrant on the University group there wouldn't be a war in the first place, and if they didn't piss off so many people the war wouldn't escalate this badly.
 
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He called the Ishinomaki group a periphery player, not the Sendai group.
I don't think anybody would deny that the Sendai group is a key player in this war.
 
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The university group is pretty much confirmed to be the ringleaders of the Ishinomaki alliance- though I guess we should start calling them the University alliance now- but I don't think it would be accurate the call the Sendai group a Periphery player. The entire war sprung up because the University group hated their guts enough to go to war over, so even if they didn't exactly start the war they certainly sowed the seeds of it. If the Sendai group go full tyrant on the University group there wouldn't be a war in the first place, and if they didn't piss off so many people the war wouldn't escalate this badly.
Um, I was refering to Ishinomaki as a periphery player not Sendai. Didn't say anything about the latter at all.

Now that you mention it, Sendai is the other side of the conflict. I think we need more information before coming to a conclusion on them. I'm getting bad vibes about them though, despite being the defensive party. We need to talk to the University group to get the full picture, talking to Ishinomaki is not going to reveal much more strategic information on the current situation. We're only talking to them to smooth relations over and make a good impression for future contacts.

One thing that concerns me about Sendai, Akiko was "amused" and "displeased" by Sabrina's proclamation on ending the war. Now this could partly be a veteran looking down on a newbie's naivety (especially the amusement) but it could mean more. Remember why the Uni group hate her? The easiest answer given current information is that they hate paying Sendai's extortionate price in seeds for simply operating and have been gathering allies to fight Sendai. There could be a other reasons/provokations (which we won't know until we talk to Uni group). Bear in mind, University had to have known about Sendai's allies/favours owed beforehand otherwise they wouldn't be so afraid of Sendai and submitted to them.

This raises the question, why would Akiko be "displeased" at Sabrina asking the University alliance to back down? Does she really want the conflict to stop? What does she gain by this, does she honestly think University is happily going to subordinate itself under Sendai again? Of course not, she probably wanted the naive newbie out of her hair. Any negotiated peace would mean University gains independence from Sendai which mean Akiko loses. Sendai's wargoals are probably keep University subordinate under harsher terms or drive them out permanently if they're too intractable (which is bad for Sendai since they lose their income and probably a last resort).

I think Ishinomaki are being opportunists in settling scores but I'm not sure what more they want apart from harming Sendai. I think initially, Akiko was going to call down her allies on Ishinomaki but now she might be cautious due to Sabrina's warning of more groups. Or... she might accelerate things and try to take out University before they can call their allies thanks to Sabrina's other tip off.

Also, why is Akiko in Ishinomaki anyway? Her story has a bunch of holes. She gives a vague explanation about Rin healing an independent, but doesn't say where this healing took place. She dances around the question and just says Sendai and Ishinomaki are on bad terms. If so then why go to Ishinomaki? Is the healing in Ishinomaki? I think there's an ulterior motive. Notice how at the beginning, Rin and Akiko were in separate locations? If the healing was in Ishinomaki (though it is not clearly stated), then I think Sakura took Rin to the healing while Akiko... was doing something else.

On another note: Sabrina is a gamechanger, but I think feelings have boiled over to point where its going to be extremely difficult for both sides to stop. Plus Sabrina is one person, she can't be everywhere and hence doesn't eliminate the need for grief seeds like some people for saying.

I have a sinking feeling that any Sabrina negotiated peace is going to be bad for Sendai and Akiko could call in the allies anyway and try to gank Mitakihara and University together, probably under the pretence of truce. Thats probably a worst case scenario, at the same time we need to find out what the University alliance want, and stop anything extreme. Bear in mind that all the above paragraphs have a healthy amount on speculation and probably unhealthy amount of paranoia.

fake edit:

HANG ON, just noticed something possibly important on the third read through:
"I'll be asking more about that later. But not in present company," you send to Akiko telepathically. Her expression shifts, subtly. Out loud, you ask, "So, what happened specifically? Rin-" bottle green eyes flick over to you "-was on her healing circuit? You were conducting negotiations for...?"

"I was there t-to heal another independent," Rin offers. "Kato Setsuko."

Akiko tilts her head to indicate agreement. "I don't know how much you've heard, Miss Sabrina, but Ishinomaki and us have... not been on the best of terms, in recent years."
Aki grimaces, but nods, and steps forward. "Somewhere around there, I guess. So there's this big fight or something, I don't know, in the Sendai girls. Whatever. Result is, one of them dies or something, and another one, Kato, I think her name was, leaves them." Her voice is a little raspy.

"Ah!" Mami says. "Kato Setsuko?"

Aki shrugs indifferently. "Sounds about correct. And yeah, she probably passed through Mitakihara?" At Mami's nod, she continues. "She passes through Ishinomaki, too," she says, waving to emcompass the city. "We... well, I think we were nice to her. There were four of us, back then."

"Five," Ayaka corrects the cloner.

"Whatever. Point is, we asked if she wanted to stay. She didn't, we let her hunt a Witch, and pass through," Aki says.

"Right..." you nod.

"Thing is, a month later, Hamasaki and her cronies come screaming at us about her," Aki says. "Said we killed her, and they tried to kill us." Her face flattens into blankness. Similar expressions, blank looks and grimaces, echo across Kimiko and Ayaka's faces. "We win."
Okay, now I'm... not sure what to think. I think initial theories that Ishinomaki killed Setsuko's witch are wrong.

We need more information on why Ishinomaki attacked Sendai, was it at University's behest or was there some deeper motivation? My speculation is that Sendai killed one of the Ishinomaki (hence the four and five statement) over what was essentially a misunderstanding and are now out for blood.

It looks like Kato Setsuko is a former Sendai member, perhaps we should seek her out to find out more about Sendai's old practices. It could give us valuable insight on the University alliance's grievances. I think she went to ground after she left Sendai and Akiko assumed Ishinomaki killed her for whatever reason.

Theres an inconsistency here; Ishinomaki is saying Setsuko left the city after a month... but Sendai is saying Setsuko is an independent in Ishinomaki? Or maybe Rin was saying Setsuko was healed somewhere else, after which Sendai came to Ishinomaki. Which begs the question, why go to Ishinomaki? Akiko's version was negotiating a truce, Ishinomaki says otherwise. If Akiko is lying, then why come to Ishinomaki?

There, two hours of work. This is why I don't participate in quests much. I get too carried away.

Real Edit: Maybe Rin lied and randomly picked Kato's name off the top of her memory to shield the real motive? either that or they recently discovered Kato was alive.
 
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It could also be that they thought that Kato died, which lead to the attack and later found out that she is still alive.
Since Rin was in Ishinomaki to heal Kato either the Sendai group or the Ishinomaki group is lying to us.
From what Ishinomaki told us Kato only passed though and isn't in the city anymore, which contradicts Rin coming over to heal her. If Kato really isn't in Ishinomaki, Rin, most likely on behalf of Akiko, lied to us.
 
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I edited in a couple of lines at the end of post #16873
It could also be that they thought that Kato died, which lead to the attack and later found out that she is still alive.
Since Rin was in Ishinomaki to heal Kato either the Sendai group or the Ishinomaki group is lying to us.
From what Ishinomaki told us Kato only passed though and isn't in the city anymore, which contradicts Rin coming over to heal her. If Kato really isn't in Ishinomaki, Rin, most likely on behalf of Akiko, lied to us.
I think you may be right. Look at her line again:
Out loud, you ask, "So, what happened specifically? Rin-" bottle green eyes flick over to you "-was on her healing circuit? You were conducting negotiations for...?"

"I was there t-to heal another independent," Rin offers. "Kato Setsuko."

Akiko tilts her head to indicate agreement.
Sabrina provided the opening statement which the Sendai girls quickly latched onto. Is Rin nervously supplying the reason why they're in Ishinomaki, or was she thinking up a convenient alibi to an unaware newbie which Akiko quickly backed up? We have no idea if Kato Setsuko is even in the prefecture (state). I'm inclined to believe the Ishinomaki girls since they seem so indifferent and casual, like this is old news (also why would they care if we asked about her?). We need to find out more on Kato Setsuko, if they have honestly never even heard of Kato Setsuko being in the general area after she left 2 years ago then Sendai is probably lying. If they have then Guillop's first line is probably the case. But why would Ishinomaki lie about not knowing about Kato Setsuki's current whereabouts?
 
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Well, Kato apparently skipped out on Sendai because of fratricide. If we assume for the moment that Akiko was in Ishinomaki to mend bridges, it might be that Kato's been deliberately keeping a low profile in the meantime, and only contacted Sendai because she needed to - hence, healing.
This would raise the question of whether Kato got healed before everything went nonlinearly tits-up. If not, Sendai might now believe any request for help was part of the trap.
... If we can't verify Kato's status, of course, they might be right. Hmm.
 
Or Kato is the evil mastermind behind the whole war and lured Akiko to Sendai for fake negotiations using the healing request as bait, all while directing the University group from the shadows :V
 
*Reappears*

Why would you do that? You humans cats don't seems to understand how futile is to do that.



Probably a different wish, but that's all speculation for that matter. At least, that's what I think.

AIUI The fact that Madoka made a different wish, in the previous loop, that can be interpreted as causing Sabrina's existence, is something we know IC from Homura. Whether that interpretation is correct is speculation.

What if our past was 'you were a cat that was given human form then sent back in time to fix all ills of the world and to succeed you must do it with a spoon?'

It's well-documented that our answer to that was to choose the fork and stab our tongue with it. (bad pointy stick)
 
On a somewhat unrelated note, I'm guessing without our intervention, Sendai would've been forced to retreat from their city, but since we bailed them out, they can retaliate against the university group with impunity.

Akiko appears ready to just throw the University group out of her city for good and given that the Tohoku really did conspire to have several of her girls killed, she seems pretty justified in doing so.

...I don't think our carrot is going to be enough to resolve that.
 
On a somewhat unrelated note, I'm guessing without our intervention, Sendai would've been forced to retreat from their city, but since we bailed them out, they can retaliate against the university group with impunity.

Akiko appears ready to just throw the University group out of her city for good and given that the Tohoku really did conspire to have several of her girls killed, she seems pretty justified in doing so.

...I don't think our carrot is going to be enough to resolve that.
Therein lies a serious problem for us: this is not a war for resources. We'll need to use some of the stick, or find a better carrot to convince the warring sides to piss off and stop trying to kill each other. Since I can't think of a better carrot that functionally unlimited grief seeds, it seems the stick may be necessary. We are a pretty powerful team, as we just saw (hell, we didn't even bring Homura), but I doubt we can simply intimidate them...

If we can't convince the main troublemakers to back down, we may have to settle for causing a civil war within the factions (preferably with the majority siding with us, obviously) and beating the few people who won't agree to a cease fire (most likely including the likes of Akiko, who I assume we'll have to smack around at some point regardless of our decision) into submission.

This isn't ideal, obviously, but it sounds like a realistic worst-case scenario to me if we can't diplomancer our way out of this. Anyone got an idea on how to avoid that?
 
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