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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Firnagzen said:
"Er. Well, why don't you tell me?" you say. "And uh... what do have you found out so far? The only interactions I've had with them so far was being punched by her-" You point helpfully at Power Girl, "-and, you know, generally being knocked around."

"She's an option, certainly," Yuki says. "She's the chattiest.
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Miss Miranda Rights is the one who is the most chatty lol.
 
I don't think we should really bother with any more talks with Iowa right now. I think they'll be more open to dialogue once they've been in prison for a while. I imagine at least some of them are anticipating a break out at the moment, in which case: "Snitches get Stitches" is a massive worry.

I think they'll all be more likely to talk after they've been stuck in a cell with no hint of a break out for a few days at least.

Is there any info we specifically need right now? If not, the I think we should just move on for the moment.
 
Burned_Cookie said:
WE ARE NOT BRINGING THESE INTO FIGHTS PEOPLE?!?

Aside from the diplomatic fallout, there is no moral way of controlling them and why would you even suggest that.
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Sure there is. "We need all the help we can get. We're prepared to let you out of your cell if you agree to cooperate. But, before you agree: we can't just trust you to keep your word, so we need to use a magical compulsion to make you literally unable to betray us. If that doesn't sound worth it, that's fine, we can just talk again later."

Burned_Cookie said:
Anyone can be redeemed with enough time, effort and power
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Hard disagree. If someone is rotten enough, they need a new personality. That can be done with, as you say, enough time, effort, and power. But they're not redeemed in any meaningful way. You've just recycled their soul and body into a different person.
 
Warclam said:
Hard disagree. If someone is rotten enough, they need a new personality. That can be done with, as you say, enough time, effort, and power. But they're not redeemed in any meaningful way. You've just recycled their soul and body into a different person.
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When I said power I meant the power to not be brushed aside not personallity rewrites. Eww.

Warclam said:
Sure there is. "We need all the help we can get. We're prepared to let you out of your cell if you agree to cooperate. But, before you agree: we can't just trust you to keep your word, so we need to use a magical compulsion to make you literally unable to betray us. If that doesn't sound worth it, that's fine, we can just talk again later."
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A. People keep breaking that kinda stuff, still not worth it.
B. EEEEEWWWWWWWW!
 
Warclam said:
Sure there is. "We need all the help we can get. We're prepared to let you out of your cell if you agree to cooperate. But, before you agree: we can't just trust you to keep your word, so we need to use a magical compulsion to make you literally unable to betray us. If that doesn't sound worth it, that's fine, we can just talk again later."
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TFW the magical compulsion is combination of a Pinky swear, the honor system, puppydog eyes and the threat of massively disproportionate retribution.
 
Burned_Cookie said:
When I said power I meant the power to not be brushed aside not [personality] rewrites. Eww.
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But that's what it is. You're turning an unrepentant monster into a functioning member of society. That's a completely different personality. Ergo, it's a personality rewrite, just done the old-fashioned slow way of therapy and education.

I state no judgement of whether it's worth it. I'm just saying, that's not redemption so much as upgrading to a better OS.
 
Warclam said:
But that's what it is. You're turning an unrepentant monster into a functioning member of society. That's a completely different personality. Ergo, it's a personality rewrite, just done the old-fashioned slow way of therapy and education.

I state no judgement of whether it's worth it. I'm just saying, that's not redemption so much as upgrading to a better OS.
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Following that logic, if anyone convinces me of anything, I die and get replaced by a new version of myself.

Seems nonsensical.
 
Warclam said:
, before you agree: we can't just trust you to keep your word, so we need to use a magical compulsion to make you literally unable to betray us. If that doesn't sound worth it, that's fine, we can just talk again later.
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For me this hits uncomfortably close to, ahem, mind rape.

Any lasting mental manipulation (which "unable to betray us" is) requires (at least in my opinion) informed non-coerced consent and what you're proposing clearly isn't it (because we're literally holding them prisoner).

Just to be clear, this isn't an attack on you. Maybe I'm overreacting and being overly prudish. I just want to say, for what it's worth, that I'm against any mental manipulation on people over whom we hold power.
 
Burned_Cookie said:
Following that logic, if anyone convinces me of anything, I die and get replaced by a new version of myself.

Seems nonsensical.
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No. My argument explicitly only applies when the before and after personalities are completely different. You're slippery sloping an explicitly fall-off-a-cliff train of logic.

EDIT: I just realized this is the Ship of Theseus problem.

UARTman said:
Any lasting mental manipulation (which "unable to betray us" is) requires (at least in my opinion) informed non-coerced consent and what you're proposing clearly isn't it (because we're literally holding them prisoner).
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Fair enough. For me, making it explicit that it's only an option, and it's fine to refuse, is enough. But that's me.
 
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Okay so I went over the last update to match names to the list on the wiki:

1. Captain = Parró
2. Weather Girl = Amy Allais
3. Antimage = Olivia Smith
4. Power Girl = ???
5. Wizard Girl = Sylune (I wonder if we could offer to tell her her real witch name?)
6. Reflect Girl = ???
7. Power Amplifier = ???
8. Healer = ???
9. Stealth Specialist = ???
10. Unknown Girl = Lana(?)


Lana = Poncho Girl = Probability Girl = ?

I'll need to check over the other updates to figure out if Lana's the unknown but considering the update explains her power I'd say probably yes.

Also:

Firnagzen said:
There's additionally four more Iowa crew girls who I haven't named yet,
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So, on my list there are five unnamed girls. This means (a) I missed a name [probability: very likely], (b) Firn wrote the wrong number of names in this note, (c) Firn is bluffing us to forgetting about stealth chick, (d) Firn forgot to name one of the girls in this update [Power Girl most likely as she's the only one who both was up for interrogation and never named], or (e) Stealth Girl has gotten the QM and all is lost,

or something else I haven't thought of.
 
Burned_Cookie said:
Yes we want to help them, but we can't.

The person known as Sabrina doesn't have the time strength or sanity to rehabilitate them.

That's why hiring a therapist is on the agenda. Stop trying to use a hammer, this isn't a nail, and we are running out of hammers, too.



As many people including myself have pointed out, we want nothing from them at all. The only thing we wanted, "are there past surving victims" is already answered. The only thing we want from them to get better, towards wich we can do nothing beyond hire an actual professional.
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I, and I assume some of the others, are desperately hoping at least one of them was only on the ship due to be held at gunpoint. Maybe one of them would really rather retire and leave all this behind and get some PTSD therapy, but Shipgirl is "follow me or die". Maybe one of them isn't a complete psychopath and just a victim of circumstance.

Amy doesn't raise much hope that any of them are people we can get along with.
 
If we do anything more, just offer to tell wizard girl her witch name and just tell Yuki to have someone chat up anyone she thinks is willing to just converse. Maybe some juice boxes and cookies (that stuff is basically dirt cheap). Otherwise we got dinner plans which can make things a lot easier to deal with even if your horny for more pirate lore™, which we can get later.

[ ] Offer to tell wizard girl her gems name if she would prefer that as her code name.
[ ] Give Yuki money to buy stuff as rewards for good behavior, and have some folks of hers chat up the ones willing to talk periodically
[ ] Whatever else people wanna discuss with our assembly of girls before we leave for dinner.

Just some stuff I'd at least like added in if it doesn't take too long.
 
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Wouldn't offering to tell the Wizard girl her Witch name be tantamount to Witchbombing the audience of our talks? Mami and Sayaka are right there and unless I misunderstood, they can hear what we're saying when we're in jail space.

Why even assume this is necessary to bring up?
 
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Ok, this is the last fucking time I go to bed early before an update, goddamn that was a lot of posts to read.

So, my thoughts in order:

1. Amy is a fucking mess. And considering her attitude of bootlicking/seduction (*retch*) , I'm not entirely sure whether we can trust the information she gave us or not- she might have just said it to give supposedly useful information to us so we'll go easy on her. Or, she's a rat jumping a sinking ship, and is trying to get buddy buddy with us so that we'll let her join our group.
(to be honest i didn't see the seduction until it was pointed out either, I just thought she was trying to kiss our ass so we don't kick hers too hard)

2. We want more information on their activities because a. we wanted to know how they knew of us, and b. Amy mentioned that we were not the only thing they were here for. Since Iowa is not the only bad group out there, it might behoove us to find out what is is and deal with it, because the next mecuga attack might not give the courtesy to announce their intentions like Iowa did. Finally, c. A therapist cannot do jack shit if they don't know anything about their clients. And we can't trust for them to open up to the therapists we'll bring, because they might see them as spies directly linked to us.

3. If we were to interrogate anyone else, it should be péro. (which by the sound of her name sounds more European than anything else). We probably won't get anything, but just a simple read of her personality outside of battle might give us something. After her, though, we should just leave. This is rather time consuming (on both sides of the veil), we have a schedule, and we can always come back later on.

4. Another thought on Amy: she may be attempting to try and make Mami jealous. It is possible that our relationship with Mami is known to them, and she may just be trying to exploit it. For what purpose, I haven't the faintest idea. Just a random idea.
Edit: also:
Firnagzen said:
"And uh... what do have you found out so far?
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I noticed the italicized 'do' was left in by accident.
 
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While I generally support rehabilitation therapy, it requires being consistent, stable, and non controlling. The complete opposite of any hivemind, and us.

I suggest we put them on ice somehow until we get a real therapist.
 
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