Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
Angrygenius said:
[X] Redshirt Army

Also, in reguards to the analogy:

Madoka's witch is, like our witch, able to effect the entire universe. It doesn't matter where or when the incubators have seeded other planets, they too will be affected by KG as much as earth will.

For a creature whos entire plan is about preventing an event billions of years away, this is a pretty bad case of not seeing the forest for the trees.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
[Citation Needed]

Homulily I might acknowledge to be a universal scale threat, but anything that doesn't explicitly involve time travel should be fairly limited by lack of FTL.
As long as the reactor is sufficiently far away from proper Civilization, the problem is manageable, even if managing the issue is running away from the expanding event horizon.

EDIT: And to clarify, specifically, this is intended to be from an Incubator perspective. If it hasn't been observed it's speculation, and it's assumed to be useless to speculate on the effects of exotic witches. (Or possibly the Incubators have some really rather elegant math on what sort of witch a given girl/wish will produce under what circumstances, akin to mathematical calculations of theoretical fundamental particles. And the equivalent of KG is considered an unlikely hypothetical.)
 
Last edited:
Torgamous said:
Kyubey doesn't decide how wishes are granted, it just acts as a catalyst.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Wow totally miss... watched? Is that a thing? Can you misswatch something. Eh whatever misunderstood that.

Jonen C said:
Basically, an imperfect analogy, extant system is the petrochemical industry, and QB is an oil company exec.

Madoka is the motherload of all oil finds, more oil than has been used throughout human history up until that point and enough to render pretty much all extant sources unprofitable.

However, and the major imlerfection of the analogy, tapping it will destroy the Earth immediately and permanently, while still allowing QB to profit and retire comfortably, let his successors figure out what then.

Sabrina is Solar, or possibly even fusion.
Potentially can replace the extant system - with some practical difficulty and after great effort and expense - but with the potential (after a few breakthroughs that have been a decade away for QBs entire corporate career) could completely overthrow the system fairly quickly.

However in either case, great expense for eventual profit and much more energy over and past the entire forseeable future, but most of the net profit will occur when qB is long since retired. And it might not work, it's still early and theres a single point of failure and no backups, and odds are if it fails, it'll take your motherload with it.

Contrast to a sure bet to get immediate and unimaginable profit right now that might screw over the future. Or possibly will see you through the looming energy crisis while you set up more sustainable alternatives.

So gamble in possibilities that may benefiy everyone if it works and will screw everyone if it fails, or take the sure bet, screw over a lot of people but get your own on the high and dry?

I mean, if QBs superiors have half a brain, they've collected samples of Earthlife and are seeding backup sites throughout their domain to ensure a long term supply.

(and possibly this has already been done, which may explain why QB is willing to risk a blowout that'll wreck the site - it's not the only one, but tapping it will secure his promotion to the next level of management.)

EDIT: Possibly, a better analogy is that the extant system is uranium fission and Madoka would allow QB to meet his quota for the next few centuries in a few milliseconds.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Don't think it's quite like that. QB has an option that will just straight up blow up the current (earth) system, but since that in all likelyhood isn't their only one and their normal method is per definition renewable because it breaks entropy, the future of their species doesn't get fucked, it get's boosted. This is more in one go than they were expecting for quite some time to come from earth and if they have to replace the earth afterwards... oh well thats not really a blip on the budged with the amounts of energy gained.

The entire problem is that QBs actions make sense, if you value human deaths and suffering as morally unproblematic.

Torgamous said:
Madokami's witch can affect the entire universe. Regular Madoka only destroys the Earth.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Good to know, but either you google-fu is through the roof or you swallowed a guidebook at some point :p
 
From what I understand a lot of Kyubey's decision making doesn't really make sense. Either its working under considerable restraints invisible to us, and/or it thinks in a very alien way.

It occurs to me, did we ever confirm that Modoka still has her absurd level of potential? I mean we know she has some potential but if we assume time was rewound because of her "can be fixed" wish and not Homura's shield then might she be back to Loop 0 levels of potential? It might change things, least of all Kyubey's actions.
I know we can sense potential, but can we detect relative potential?
I don't know if it has been discussed before.
 
JayTar said:
From what I understand a lot of Kyubey's decision making doesn't really make sense. Either its working under considerable restraints invisible to us, and/or it thinks in a very alien way.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, for one, it IS an alien. Beyond that, what about its decision making makes no sense to you?
 
JayTar said:
It occurs to me, did we ever confirm that Modoka still has her absurd level of potential? I mean we know she has some potential but if we assume time was rewound because of her "can be fixed" wish and not Homura's shield then might she be back to Loop 0 levels of potential? It might change things, least of all Kyubey's actions.
I know we can sense potential, but can we detect relative potential?
I don't know if it has been discussed before.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Madoka making a wish does not detract from her potential in future loops - she made many different wishes across many different loops and yet her potential only grows with each and every loop. Homura's looping back unmades Madoka's wish and adds to Madoka's potential.
 
Last edited:
JayTar said:
From what I understand a lot of Kyubey's decision making doesn't really make sense. Either its working under considerable restraints invisible to us, and/or it thinks in a very alien way.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Could I perhaps bother you for a few examples?

eduard said:
Madoka making a wish does not detract from her potential in future loops - she made many different wishes across many different loops and yet her potential only grows with each and every loop. Homura's looping back unmades Madoka's wish and adds to Madoka's potential.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Except all those effects were undone.

This time, should we have truly been created by Madoka, the effects persisted.

Something to keep in mind or perhaps even check with Kyuubey should we be feeling particularly adventurous.
 
So to get the gist of the last couple of hours:

1. Kyuubey is looking for the most efficient method of gaining entropy-delaying energy.
2. If potential was diamonds, Madoka would be the equivalent of 55 Cancri e.
3. Kyuubey would not be affected too badly by the destruction of the planet Madoka's witch would cause.
4. The only feasible way that Kyuubey would agree to any plan other than his witch system is if it gave a better yield than Madoka and was easier to get than Madoka.
 
Angrygenius said:
3. Kyuubey would not be affected too badly by the destruction of the planet Madoka's witch would cause.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I always thought Kyubey being okay with the Earth's destruction was a bit odd because he would be essentially destroying his long-term prospects for short-term gains.

The only way for that to make sense is that Gretchen somehow gives off Infinite energy or perhaps the more likely solution, they're deliberately planting humans on other habitable planets, which renders Earth relatively unimportant.
 
King Washington said:
I always thought Kyubey being okay with the Earth's destruction was a bit odd because he would be essentially destroying his long-term prospects for short-term gains.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Long term isn't infinite. The expected value of humanity without Madoka destroying the world is large, but finite since we'll still go extinct sooner or later. Madoka just has to output more energy than that.
 
Angrygenius said:
So to get the gist of the last couple of hours:

1. Kyuubey is looking for the most efficient method of gaining entropy-delaying energy.
2. If potential was diamonds, Madoka would be the equivalent of 55 Cancri e.
3. Kyuubey would not be affected too badly by the destruction of the planet Madoka's witch would cause.
4. The only feasible way that Kyuubey would agree to any plan other than his witch system is if it gave a better yield than Madoka and was easier to get than Madoka.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Pretty much. Point 4 is not entirely certain, but no group of posters has been willing to question it on the matter (or on any matter, if they can help it). Points 1-3 are stated in canon, both in word and deed.
Come now, folks. Just because the Incubator's implications are never trustworthy doesn't mean its words are. It's just an inverse Malicious Genie problem.

As regards potential seeding of humanity across the stars, it is not impossible that they have since found other species that may exhibit similar capabilities. We were simply the first they found, the ones that made them aware that it was a possibility.
 
Dantalion said:
Pretty much. Point 4 is not entirely certain, but no group of posters has been willing to question it on the matter (or on any matter, if they can help it). Points 1-3 are stated in canon, both in word and deed.
Come now, folks. Just because the Incubator's implications are never trustworthy doesn't mean its words are. It's just an inverse Malicious Genie problem.

As regards potential seeding of humanity across the stars, it is not impossible that they have since found other species that may exhibit similar capabilities. We were simply the first they found, the ones that made them aware that it was a possibility.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This would mean that even if we succeed for breaking the system for humans, the incubators can do the same to other species.

I don't know if our end goal is to break the system for just humans, or break the system period, because attempting to break the system for all species involved sounds like it would take 30 in-quest years, and an ungodly amount of time outside the quest.
 
Angrygenius said:
This would mean that even if we succeed for breaking the system for humans, the incubators can do the same to other species.
I don't know if our end goal is to break the system for just humans, or break the system period, because attempting to break the system for all species involved sounds like it would take 30 in-quest years, and an ungodly amount of time outside the quest.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
*shrugs* Scope has always been something of an issue for the Brinamind.
 
King Washington said:
The only way for that to make sense is that Gretchen somehow gives off Infinite energy or perhaps the more likely solution, they're deliberately planting humans on other habitable planets, which renders Earth relatively unimportant.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I automatically assumed they did the latter with either humans or a different species, it's just the only sane thing to do.

It's also something they would never tell us, because the last thing they want is different planets/stations/areas cooperating.
Angrygenius said:
4. The only feasible way that Kyuubey would agree to any plan other than his witch system is if it gave a better yield than Madoka and was easier to get than Madoka.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As long as switching over isn't too much effort, I can see them switching over to a more powerfull system in the interim for as long as Madoka can hold of not making a wish.

Besides, even if we fail for earth, if we actually did have a better solution offering it to Kyuubey may very well save countless other civilisations the suffering.

Of course, we don't, so the point is moot until we do.

Step 1: solve entropy does not sound like a step one should disregard
 
Redshirt Army said:
So. Vote crafting time.

[X] Give the Mandalay girls their space. They're clearly overwhelmed.
-[X] Ask if you could visit them later this coming week - Thursday or Friday.

[X] Check in on the prisoners.
-[X] Find out what all their names and powers are, and Yuki's read on their personalities.
--[X] Mention that according to Nadia, one of them must be a sub-3 month experience new hire? Any indication on which one?
-[X] Ask Yuki what secure containment procedures she's planning on using.
--[X] If there are safety issues or Yuki plans something unacceptable (i.e. more than just gemming), break to voting.

[X] Take the Yuki express back to Fukushima with everyone, assuming it's safe.
-[X] Ask Yuki and Kazumi their thoughts on potentially inviting Mika to the Tokyo meeting tomorrow. You don't know her that well, but she came through for you in a big way and she has both credibility as a veteran and experience in politics.
--[X] If Yuki and Kazumi agree, invite Mika to Tokyo tomorrow. Make it clear that this does not represent subordination to you - you're inviting her as an equal partner to Mitakihara, the Pleiades, and the Fukushima group to your coalition, if she wants it.

[X] Brainstorm a potential group name for your whole coalition with everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What do I think about this.

Asking Yuki about security protocols -- don't we have everyone with us? Can we talk about all aspects of that in front of everyone?

Other than that... Right, the coalition thing. I-- I actually want to run a social vote here for a second. The reason is, we haven't actually talked about what the coalition is, nor what it could be. We're talking about naming it and inviting Mika to Tokyo with us as part of it but... If we go that route now it's just a military alliance. That's a waste. We can do better than that.

[X] Give the Mandalay girls their space. They're clearly overwhelmed.
-[X] Ask if you could visit them later this coming week - Thursday or Friday.

[X] Check in on the prisoners.
-[X] Find out what all their names and powers are, and Yuki's read on their personalities.
--[X] Mention that according to Nadia, one of them must be a sub-3 month experience new hire? Any indication on which one?
-[X] Ask Yuki what secure containment procedures she's planning on using.
--[X] If there are safety issues or Yuki plans something unacceptable (i.e. more than just gemming), break to voting.
//? Safety check on this^^

//Coalition social vote (longform, rip)
[X] Take the Yuki express back to Fukushima with everyone, assuming it's safe.
-[X] Mika, Kazumi, Yuki, Shiogama, Mami, Kyouko, Homura, Sayaka (and anyone who cares is welcome to listen in)
--[X] So, just so everyone is on the same page, the current state of, eh, politics is that Mitakihara is official-official in defense pacts with Fukushima and Asunaro, guarantees the safety of everyone living in or around Mitakihara as a matter of course, is unofficially guaranteeing the safety of anyone possessing a clear seed, and is officially guaranteeing Mika Nakano in particular following everything she's done to help today. Functionally, you're already most of the way to a mutual defense coalition covering everyone here.
---[X] The thing is, you figure that ties between everyone here closer than the status quo could be incredibly valuable to all involved. Without Yuki it might not make too much sense. But the fact of the matter is that with Yuki's power, if everyone here is willing to extend the necessary trust to each other, this coalition -- which has just demonstrated a level of power head and shoulders above even Iowa Group -- could be minutes away from each other. And that changes so many things. It means that it would be a waste for things to be only about defending each other.
----[X] It would be extremely simple to establish free movement via Yuki's power between Mitakihara, Fukushima, Asunaro, and Mika's holdings in Ishinomaki, or any combination of those places or others -- which would be very nice by itself, but the real value of closer ties would be in the communication, cooperation, and exchange that trust and free movement would allow. Mami has demonstrated that someone without the specific ability can learn to do things like making clones -- not to mention style hair, access a hammerspace, etcetera. Mika is probably capable of giving other people flight through enchanting if she feels like it. If Akemi is up for it, luck manipulation seems like something people would really, really like to have applied to their personal obstacles. Asunaro possesses some extremely strong analytic powers. These are all things that could be exchanged for, shared freely, experimented with cooperatively, or even just there in case they're needed, instead of being beyond reach. And with infinite magic backing it all -- which, to be clear, you would back all of it, even beyond clear seeds, because it would no longer require you to spend lots of time flying intercity -- the potential is absurd. Things could be better.
-----[X] Listen to & interact with responses to this.
------[X] If naming comes up: Mahou Shoujo Kyoukai (see Redshirt's proposal earlier) is your proposal.
------[X] Don't break up with everyone before you end things -- we want to invite Mika to Tokyo with us, but not this vote.
 
Burned_Cookie said:
I automatically assumed they did the latter with either humans or a different species, it's just the only sane thing to do.

It's also something they would never tell us, because the last thing they want is different planets/stations/areas cooperating.

As long as switching over isn't too much effort, I can see them switching over to a more powerfull system in the interim for as long as Madoka can hold of not making a wish.

Besides, even if we fail for earth, if we actually did have a better solution offering it to Kyuubey may very well save countless other civilisations the suffering.

Of course, we don't, so the point is moot until we do.

Step 1: solve entropy does not sound like a step one should disregard
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The destruction of earth is a bad end no matter if we save other civilizations or not.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top