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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Oh for fucks sake.

If you want to convince Homura that all our words about caring about her and valuing her opinion are just words, go right ahead and delete it.

If you're just strawmanning, wait until I'm not at work so I can rewrite it to make it totally obvious that I intend to ask for opinions rather than orders.
 
Vebyast said:
Oh for fucks sake.

If you want to convince Homura that all our words about caring about her and valuing her opinion are just words, go right ahead and delete it.

If you're just strawmanning, wait until I'm not at work so I can rewrite it to make it totally obvious that I intend to ask for opinions rather than orders.
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It's not about opinions or orders. It's--

If we're going to tell her about the possibility, it needs to be a matter of assuring her that it's under control.

Listen... frankly, I've been a babbling, rude, mean idiot at numerous points in the past month. You're fed up with me. I get it.

The chief difference Redshirt and I are getting at here is, without the "what should we do" line, this is about reassuring Homura that the situation is under control (at least that's the idea). I'm thinking about something like

[] She should recognize that there is a chance that someone -- probably Sayaka -- might put together that she is a time traveler.
-[] If that happens, you're completely confident you can prevent the information from spreading.

As a decent basic example of what he/we is/are saying would be good. The trouble is, the standing vote doesn't say that it can be kept under wraps -- only that it won't be a problem -- and then it asks Homura what she'd like us to do about it.

It's not saying "this isn't under control." But it's also not saying "this is under control, completely," and this is an issue Homura has capital-A Anxiety about.

I know you're really busy. I know I've done a bunch of shit that's just been really assholish of me lately. I understand I've pushed you, even as recently as yesterday and this morning. Just... When you get off tonight, step back and look at this with me? And let me apologize >_<
 
[X] Reassure Homura
-[x] Sayaka said, in as many words, that she trusts Homura and understands that Homura has reasons for keeping the secrets she keeps and doing the things she does.
-[x] She understands that she can't share the truth of witches with Madoka. She said as much.
-[x] Even if she hadn't promised - and remember how stubborn she is about keeping her promises - she knows Madoka and can see what Madoka will do just like you can, and she trusts you and Homura to know what you're doing.

[x] Carefully warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
-[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
--[x] One way it'll help is she'll have even more reason to trust you and Homura on the topic of protecting Madoka.
-[x] Reassure Homura that you can keep the situation under control. Even if she figures it out, Sayaka won't spread the information without permission. She's Homura's friend, now.
--[x] Try to answer Homura's concerns, and respect her preferences on how to handle this.

[x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
-[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
-[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
[x] Lower-priority topics:
-[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
-[x] Re-emphasize that you're always willing to answer any questions that Homura might have, and go fishing for anything she might want to know. Any decisions of yours she wants more context on, particular people she'd appreciate analyses of, that kind of thing.
-[x] Ask if she has any copies of Walpurgisnacht's seed, and to examine one if she does.
-[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
-[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
[x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
-[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.

Here's my tweak.
 
You know, something to keep in mind for next time that we have a timestop conversation like this? Make it clear to Homura that if she wants to drop us from timestop to have time to think in private, that we're totally okay with that.

On a separate note, since we're returning to Mami at the end of this update, I think Sabrina needs to have this mental image pop into her mind:

 
Considering the white dress and the singed bullet holes at the hem, it looks like someone made the terrible mistake of attacking Mami at her wedding.
Adhoc vote count started by Godwinson on Apr 12, 2019 at 10:00 PM, finished with 151411 posts and 24 votes.
  • [X] Redshirt Army
    [x] Reassure Homura.
    -[x] Sayaka said, in as many words, that she trusts Homura and understands that Homura has reasons for keeping the secrets she keeps and doing the things she does.
    -[x] She understands that she can't share the truth of witches with Madoka. She said as much.
    -[x] Even if she hadn't promised - and remember how stubborn she is about keeping her promises - she knows Madoka and can see what Madoka will do just like you can, and she trusts you and Homura to know what you're doing.
    [x] Carefully warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    -[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    --[x] One way it'll certainly help - she'll have even more reason to listen to you and Homura when it comes to protecting Madoka.
    -[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    [x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    [x] Lower-priority topics:
    -[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
    -[x] Re-emphasize that you're always willing to answer any questions that Homura might have, and go fishing for anything she might want to know. Any decisions of yours she wants more context on, particular people she'd appreciate analyses of, that kind of thing.
    -[x] Ask if she has any copies of Walpurgisnacht's seed, and to examine one if she does.
    -[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    -[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    -[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    [x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    [x] Lower-priority topics:
    -[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
    --[x] Ask if she has any copies of Walpurgisnacht's seed, and to examine one if she does.
    -[x] Re-emphasize that you're always willing to answer any questions that Homura might have, and go fishing for anything she might want to know. Any decisions of yours she wants more context on, particular people she'd appreciate analyses of, that kind of thing.
    -[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Reassure Homura.
    -[X] Relate the circumstances under which Sayaka explicitly told you that she wouldn't tell Madoka about the Truth of Witches.
    [x] Carefully warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    -[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    --[x] One way it'll certainly help - she'll have even more reason to listen to you and Homura when it comes to protecting Madoka.
    -[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    [x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    [x] Lower-priority topics:
    -[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
    -[x] Re-emphasize that you're always willing to answer any questions that Homura might have, and go fishing for anything she might want to know. Any decisions of yours she wants more context on, particular people she'd appreciate analyses of, that kind of thing.
    -[x] Ask if she has any copies of Walpurgisnacht's seed, and to examine one if she does.
    -[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Reassure Homura.
    -[x] Sayaka said, in as many words, that she trusts Homura and understands that Homura has reasons for keeping the secrets she keeps and doing the things she does.
    -[x] She understands that she can't share the truth of witches with Madoka. She said as much.
    -[x] Even if she hadn't promised - and remember how stubborn she is about keeping her promises - she knows Madoka and can see what Madoka will do just like you can, and she trusts you and Homura to know what you're doing.
    [x] Carefully warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    -[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    --[x] One way it'll help is she'll have even more reason to trust you and Homura on the topic of protecting Madoka.
    -[x] Reassure Homura that you can keep the situation under control. Even if she figures it out, Sayaka won't spread the information without permission. She's Homura's friend, now.
    --[x] Try to answer Homura's concerns, and respect her preferences on how to handle this.
    [x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    [x] Lower-priority topics:
    -[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
    -[x] Re-emphasize that you're always willing to answer any questions that Homura might have, and go fishing for anything she might want to know. Any decisions of yours she wants more context on, particular people she'd appreciate analyses of, that kind of thing.
    -[x] Ask if she has any copies of Walpurgisnacht's seed, and to examine one if she does.
    -[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
Click to expand...
 
@Redshirt Army What are you doing? "Respect her preferences" is way the fuck more binding than "Ask her how she'd prefer to handle it". And you're dropping the part where we argue that it would be better for Sayaka to have the truth. And we already said that Sayaka is her friend. Twice. Your vote is exactly the opposite of what you claim to want.
 
Godwinson said:
Considering the white dress and the singed bullet holes at the hem, it looks like someone made the terrible mistake of attacking Mami at her wedding.
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Oh dear sweet Madokami, those poor assholes.

That's probably the worst possible time and place to attack I can think of - you have to deal with a pissed off Mami and Sabrina... plus all the wedding guests.
 
Vebyast said:
"Respect her preferences" is way the fuck more binding than "Ask her how she'd prefer to handle it".
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Is it? I really doubt we wouldn't respect whatever she told us she'd prefer.

Vebyast said:
And you're dropping the part where we argue that it would be better for Sayaka to have the truth.
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Um. Literally all I did was replace this:
Vebyast said:
-[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

With this:
Redshirt Army said:
-[x] Reassure Homura that you can keep the situation under control. Even if she figures it out, Sayaka won't spread the information without permission. She's Homura's friend, now.
--[x] Try to answer Homura's concerns, and respect her preferences on how to handle this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So no, I'm not dropping anything of the sort.

Vebyast said:
And we already said that Sayaka is her friend. Twice.
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Click to shrink...

It's worth re-iterating to emphasize that Sayaka won't spread the info and thus hurt her, I think.
 
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Homura does not give a shit about vague reassurances. She responds to arguments and evidence. We believe that it will not cause any problems because Sayaka will talk to us first because she is our friend.
Redshirt Army said:
Um. Literally all I did was replace this:
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"It'd be best to make sure she has the story right" is gone. Homura has so many problems because Sayaka keeps getting the wrong impression. Sayaka is on our side this time because she has more CORRECT information about Homura. We need to point that out.
Redshirt Army said:
I don't want her opinion on "how to handle this"
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Then you turn around and escalate from "Ask her how she wants to handle it" to "do what she wants".
Redshirt Army said:
It's worth re-iterating to emphasize that Sayaka won't spread the info and thus hurt her, I think.
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"it won't cause any problems" is "under control".


[X] Reassure Homura
-[x] Sayaka said, in as many words, that she trusts Homura and understands that Homura has reasons for keeping the secrets she keeps and doing the things she does.
-[x] She understands that she can't share the truth of witches with Madoka. She said as much.
-[x] Even if she hadn't promised - and remember how stubborn she is about keeping her promises - she knows Madoka and can see what Madoka will do just like you can, and she trusts you and Homura to know what you're doing.

[x] Carefully warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
-[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
--[x] One way it'll certainly help - she'll have even more reason to listen to you and Homura when it comes to protecting Madoka.
-[x] You still think that this loop is going well because everyone has more correct information, but you'll respect Homura's wishes and not push to be proactive about this situation.
-[x] Sayaka is friends now. The most she'll do is ask one of you two about it. And then you'll call Homura and you can deal with it then.

[x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
-[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
-[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.

[x] Lower-priority topics:
-[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
-[x] Re-emphasize that you're always willing to answer any questions that Homura might have, and go fishing for anything she might want to know. Any decisions of yours she wants more context on, particular people she'd appreciate analyses of, that kind of thing.
-[x] Ask if she has any copies of Walpurgisnacht's seed, and to examine one if she does.
-[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
-[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?

[x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
-[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
 
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I... really don't want to continue this little spat. We're getting hung up on minutiae, and yes, I acknowledge and apologize for my own role in starting this whole mess, since your vote as it originally was would probably have been fine.

I haven't been at my best in general due to illness recently, but that's no excuse - I should have just stayed out of the discussion until I felt up to participating.

So yeah, sorry.

[x] Vebyast
 
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