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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Well its been a couple of hours and no one has suggested "pelt her with fruit and vegetables" so we're probably not Sabrina's Clara dolls.
 
HeroCycle said:
...
! please, allow me....
I like the more delicious version of this. Other Mom would agree?
The Soulbomb reveal doesn't go the way Kyuubey wants, either! lol!
Comfort food for the PMMM-verse...

"Kyubey approximated a smirk as it simply dipped its head and closed its eyes,

"I thought so."

Sabrina answered him with a smile, the brilliant glint of Sol and her open, clear eyes lending her a charm the Incubator would never see.

"I'll listen to your surrender right now, if you are finished catching up to me."

"The gall of your species, going so far above your origin, and yet imagining Karma does no longer apply to your existence? Make me laugh more, Incubator.
Meddling with all the other Sentients you can reach has some consequences that you may or may not have avoided.
Extending the decay of this Manifold using proxies was beyond what any other race has ever tried, and is a testament to the lack of morality you all aspire to.
On the other hand, some of your timelines have produced Dieties and rewritten Laws.
I'm not the only reaction you will experience because of that. (Shadows of other fixfic protagonists in background.)
As one of the normal humans that your actions created would say "
" Yes, and you've been playing without an opponent, which is, as you may have guessed... against the rules. "
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fixfic expanded universe when?
 
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Raiseth said:
But Clara Dolls are Homura's familiars tho? :thonk:
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Homura's Clara dolls are a bit different from normal familiars, in that they represent parts of herself, (those parts of her that would reach out to others for aid, and which she has cast aside.)

Normal familiars on the other hand seem to represent witches' views of others, objectifying them, rather than having a will of their own. Oktavia has a false "Kyousuke" as only an endlessly playing musician and a Hitomi as a backup dancer, H.N. Elly with familiars who exist to carry her around, Gertrud has cotton-ball landscapers, Patricia has puppet classmates, Roberta has worthless eyecandy, etc.

Though really, if I was being more accurate and less fuzzy I'd say we'd be more like WPN's magical girl "familiars" or Madokami's angels/fairies, where the things in question are actual people, but neither of those terms really fit and there's no good overarching term for the phenomena.

So I prefer to just say Clara doll for said overarching term, since it's close enough but is distinct from "familiar."
 
The Phoenixian said:
Homura's Clara dolls are a bit different from normal familiars, in that they represent parts of herself, (those parts of her that would reach out to others for aid, and which she has cast aside.)
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I think it's more about Homura's Witch Nature being Self-Sufficiency. She doesn't need anything to suffer except for herself or something like that.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Homura's Clara dolls are a bit different from normal familiars, in that they represent parts of herself, (those parts of her that would reach out to others for aid, and which she has cast aside.)

Normal familiars on the other hand seem to represent witches' views of others, objectifying them, rather than having a will of their own. Oktavia has a false "Kyousuke" as only an endlessly playing musician and a Hitomi as a backup dancer, H.N. Elly with familiars who exist to carry her around, Gertrud has cotton-ball landscapers, Patricia has puppet classmates, Roberta has worthless eyecandy, etc.

Though really, if I was being more accurate and less fuzzy I'd say we'd be more like WPN's magical girl "familiars" or Madokami's angels/fairies, where the things in question are actual people, but neither of those terms really fit and there's no good overarching term for the phenomena.

So I prefer to just say Clara doll for said overarching term, since it's close enough but is distinct from "familiar."
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Here's what Word of Urobuchi says about Familiars, courtesy of the Madoka PSP game and The January 2012 Dengeki Article advertising it:

Familiars
The witches' familiars are, just like the witches' barrier, projections of the magical girl's heart before she became a witch. [In this case], Mami, who had fought alone for a long time, and sought companions.

Looking at how Dengeki explained Familiars, Homura's Clara Dolls do fit in neatly as her personal Familiars (Magia Record goes further and implies they were her original familiars prior to gaining the Lotte, Luiselotte, Liese, and Lilia Familiars. Note how Glasses Homulilly in Magia Record doesn't appear with her Familiars, while Classic Homulilly does... ). Possibly because of how powerful Homura had become after Madoka reset the universe, the Clara Dolls likewise gained a significant boost in strength.



The Doppel of Karma. Its form is the mortal world. The master of this emotion, looking for an exit, travels around many worlds and weaves enormous threads of karmic destinies. Following the master whose body was almost vitrified are the incomplete 14 born in an emotion. Aiming at the accomplishment of a goal, the 14 remove any obstacle in the way in a businesslike manner. The 14, regardless of their master's intention, ceaselessly weave the threads of karmic destinies into a more intricate karmic destiny, chasing the master to a labyrinth which probably makes her escape even more difficult. These emotions have yet to have any name to represent them.
 
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Cae Lumis said:
Here's what Word of Urobuchi says about Familiars, courtesy of the Madoka PSP game and The January 2012 Dengeki Article advertising it:

Familiars
The witches' familiars are, just like the witches' barrier, projections of the magical girl's heart before she became a witch. [In this case], Mami, who had fought alone for a long time, and sought companions.

Looking at how Dengeki explained Familiars, Homura's Clara Dolls do fit in neatly as her personal Familiars (Magia Record goes further and implies they were her original familiars prior to gaining the Lotte, Luiselotte, Liese, and Lilia Familiars. Note how Glasses Homulilly in Magia Record doesn't appear with her Familiars, while Classic Homulilly does... ). Possibly because of how powerful Homura had become after Madoka reset the universe, the Clara Dolls likewise gained a significant boost in strength.



The Doppel of Karma. Its form is the mortal world. The master of this emotion, looking for an exit, travels around many worlds and weaves enormous threads of karmic destinies. Following the master whose body was almost vitrified are the incomplete 14 born in an emotion. Aiming at the accomplishment of a goal, the 14 remove any obstacle in the way in a businesslike manner. The 14, regardless of their master's intention, ceaselessly weave the threads of karmic destinies into a more intricate karmic destiny, chasing the master to a labyrinth which probably makes her escape even more difficult. These emotions have yet to have any name to represent them.
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I posted it in the thread AAAAGES ago and struggling to find it, but Word of Inu Curry says that the Clara Dolls aren't 'familiars', but an 'outgrowth of karma.' Something that is MORE than a Familiar, as instead of being a projection of her heart, they are actual pieces of it. Their existence as such an entity puts them on par with normal Magical Girls and seems to be a result of Homura's Devil powers.

Familiars are described in the same post as essentially being like AIs that are dependent on magical energy to think and exist. They kill humans because they're being starved of magic, they're 'bored', or they're being ordered to.

The fact that the Clara Dolls don't have this need or impulse is what supposedly separates them.

Edit: Puella Magi Adfligo Systema | Page 4063 here we go

Edit 2: Aaaand here's the original source on the Inu Curry production notes translations. Talk:Witches Artwork - Puella Magi Wiki
 
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AuraTwilight said:
Edit 2: Aaaand here's the original source on the Inu Curry production notes translations. Talk:Witches Artwork - Puella Magi Wiki
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<<Proceeds to study rigorously...>>

I stand corrected! I should've realized this sooner... after all, the Homully Classic Doppel mentions how even prior to having emotions assigned to them the future Clara Dolls acted independently to Homulilly... something did bug me about that statement. Thanks for the clarification!

Hurm... kinda bugs me we don't have a proper name for what kind of being they are. We have Rumors (which are an existence similar to Clara Dolls), Witches, Familiars, Labyrinths... it'd be nice to have a proper designation for what the dolls really are.

Edit: Okay, so I've read the descriptions for the Clara Dolls before... just I never knew that those descriptions were originally part of a larger production note...

Edit #2: Oops... meant Clara Dolls here. Editing to prevent future confusion @_@.
 
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Cae Lumis said:
<<Proceeds to study rigorously...>>

I stand corrected! I should've realized this sooner... after all, the Homully Classic Doppel mentions how even prior to having emotions assigned to them the future Clara Dolls acted independently to Homulilly... something did bug me about that statement. Thanks for the clarification!

Hurm... kinda bugs me we don't have a proper name for what kind of being they are. We have Rumors (which are an existence similar to Doppels), Witches, Familiars, Labyrinths... it'd be nice to have a proper designation for what the dolls really are.

Edit: Okay, so I've read the descriptions for the Clara Dolls before... just I never knew that those descriptions were originally part of a larger production note...
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Honestly, the Rumors are... similar to the Clara Dolls, actually. They're born of Nemu personifying and breaking off her own karma to self-destructive effects and programming them to embody stories and concepts from her imagination, while Homura's Clara Dolls are the same thing, but produced in a different process, and embodying her feelings. The latter is essentially a manifestation of her godhood, and the former is wish magic with implied wishing-over-potential.
 
I don't at all like where the current vote is going.

Listen, the girl in front of us -- our best friend -- is visibly uncomfortable:

Firnagzen said:
"Uh... oh," you say, blinking at Homura. "I'm not asking you to tell her anything you're not comfortable with her knowing - that's what I told her, in fact. I just confirmed that yes, you care very much about Madoka for reasons that I can't explain, because they're not my secrets to tell. And she was happy to accept that. She even said she wouldn't bother you about it."

"Oh," Homura says, frowning in throught. She fidgets with the shotgun, wiping the excess oil off the stock and barrel as she thinks this over. "... good?"

"It is," you say. "And... a while ago, I gave her the option to ask about some of the... general secrets of being a magical girl. She already knows about our Soul Gems. If she asks, I want to tell her about where Witches come from. She's a lot more thoughtful this time round, and a lot calmer, and if we tell her, then she'll know why it's important not to trust Kyuubey, and why we can't let Madoka become a magical girl."

"If you think it will help, then yes," Homura says. She looks uncertain, fidgeting still with the shotgun. "I... am glad you told me in advance?"

You give Homura a soft smile. "I think it'll make her trust you even more. Because then she'll understand why you were so set on discouraging her and Madoka from becoming magical girls. You were, are trying to save them from a horrible fate."

Homura swallows, and nods again.

-chapter breaks to voting-
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Please, for a moment, just re-read this and ask yourself: if I were talking to a girl about a touchy subject and she seemed uncertain and fidgety, then visibly swallowed, what should I do?

There are right and wrong answers to this question, and the standing vote --

[x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
-[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
-[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
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-- is most certainly a wrong answer. The proper response to Homura being visibly uncomfortable in front of us while talking about "Telling Sayaka the Truth of Witches" does not involve blowing past that and into "Sayaka might figure out that you're a time traveler."

How wrong is it? Well, if we assume that we don't really have a good way to bring Homura around to being more comfortable with this in a healthy way, it's not that wrong. In that scenario, it's just Homura suffering because she has to, because it's worth it, because she can bear it. The offer to tell Sayaka the Truth of Witches is a done deal -- we can't really go back on it. It's still pretty wrong, if we make that assumption, because blowing past someone's discomfort is always wrong, but surely it's not that wrong...

Except, there's just one thing -- that assumption is garbage. And that makes this vote really, really wrong. Because we can do something healthy to help Homura be more comfortable with this -- and because that is what a good friend should do in this situation, that's what I'm going to lay out here, and it's what I'm going to vote for.

To understand what we can do for Homura here, we have to understand first why Homura is uncomfortable with Sayaka being told the Truth of Witches. In general, this is because Homura has watched Madoka be drawn by degrees into making a wish for roughly a hundred loops, because Madoka learning the Truth of Witches has been one of those degrees, because Homura desperately wants Madoka to not be drawn into making a wish by any degrees ("I don't want her involved"), and most of all, because Homura cannot conceive of a situation where Sayaka learning the Truth of Witches doesn't necessarily involve Madoka also learning the Truth of Witches.

Now, it's a real miracle she's only uncomfortable with this. She trusts us a lot.

She doesn't trust Sayaka. And why should she? What indication has Sayaka given to Homura that she cares about her? What has Sayaka done that would convince Homura that she could be trusted? "She's being useful," Homura has said, disbelievingly. Not "She's being my friend." Not "She's helping me." And especially not "She told me that she considers me her friend." Especially not "I feel that if I asked her to not tell Madoka something, she would agree to not tell it to Madoka."

In point of fact, so far this loop, the only person who has told Homura to her face that they consider her a friend is Sabrina. The only person who has told Homura to her face that they care about her is Sabrina.

If we want Homura to be at all comfortable with this -- and, I should note, if we want Homura to not freak the hell out at the idea of Miki Sayaka figuring out that she's a time traveler, something Homura considers a much worse topic than even the Truth of Witches, we are going to need Homura to be more comfortable with these things -- we need to get Homura to understand that Sayaka actually gives a damn about her beyond the simple respect she's shown her. Having Homura be aware that Sayaka respects her isn't enough: we need, bluntly, to have Homura feel (or at least feel more than she currently does, which is not at all) that "If I asked Sayaka to keep something secret from Madoka for me, she would agree to do so."

... Speaking of which, we also need that to be true, and I'm not one hundred percent certain that it is right at this instant. Sayaka is starting to twig to the fact that Homura is a person who should and must be cared about, but I don't know for sure that she's all the way there yet. She's made the realization that Homura isn't exactly happy, but I don't think she's made the realization that Homura is vulnerable, and I don't know for certain that she's made the realization that Homura is the kind of person worth caring for. She definitely has not expressed the kind of concern for Homura that Sabrina or Mami have --

Mami, who of course, made all of those realizations in one night...

... Not that anyone ever said as much to Homura. Or, for that matter, to Sayaka.

Which, I have to say, might go a long way to explain why Sayaka hasn't thought as well of Homura, hasn't been as concerned for Homura as has Mami.



So, to break this down: what I am saying here is, before we proceed with anything more, we want Homura to understand that we are going to be able to get Sayaka to keep all of this information from Madoka. I don't feel comfortable trying to approach that with some blanket reassurance line for two reasons -- one, because I wouldn't do this IRL, this "Well, we're going to blow past her visible discomfort way out of her comfort zone, but it will be okay because we'll tell her it'll be fine." And two, because we have a constructive alternative -- we get people to care about Homura and we get them to tell her that they care about her.

This has a gargantuan boatload of side benefits stemming from just having people express to Homura that they care about her: fortuneless orphan Homura, who had no one to care for her, who latched on to the first person to care for her so tightly that she has fought a war for her. Who doesn't think she deserves others caring about her, who doesn't think others do care about her...

Honestly, in hindsight, we should have done this a long time ago... but we can at least do it now before we tell Homura that she's going to have to place any more trust in the people around her than she already has.

[] Tone: nonjudgemental, empathizing: She's not entirely comfortable with this.
-[] Listen.
[] Assuming the response isn't a surprise...
-[] There's something she needs to hear -- should have heard before you broached this in the first place -- but she needs to hear it from someone else. Is it alright if you bring Mami in here and ask that she relate something to Homura? No secrets involved, just a story that she should hear from someone who isn't you.
--[] Take a rope or something from Homura. Go grab Mami. Tell her you need a favor, that it's important, that she should trust herself, and just not push if Homura seems uncomfortable.
[] Go back to Homura. Ask Mami to relate what transpired in the timestop during the hunt for Oriko from the point you found Homura asleep to when you woke her up as well as how she felt about it, specifically the parts concerning Homura.
-[] You will be over there, because this needs to come from Mami and not you. If they tug on the rope you'll come over.


And after that?

After that -- we're going to tell Homura that we're going to keep Sayaka from telling Madoka about the Truth of Witches. And we're going to tell her how we're going to do that, and the way we're going to do that is simple: we're going to have Mami tell this same story to Sayaka, we're going to tell Sayaka the Truth of Witches, and then we are going to ask, politely, that Sayaka not tell Madoka the Truth of Witches for Homura's sake.

... At least, that's the outline.

Truth is? I recognize that this is maybe something we should do as a standalone. In a way that isn't, "Oh, this is about Sayaka, let me go grab Mami." I am fully aware of how weird that is -- and yet, it compares quite favorably to the standing vote, which is... potentially a disaster. I don't think there's a better way to maybe destroy all the positive developments between Homura and Sayaka than to tell Homura that Sayaka might figure out that Homura's a time traveler without some big changes first. Also, I'm kind of running out of time. I'm far from totally happy with how this post is written, but... I'd enjoin you to consider it, because if we don't do this now, then I dearly hope that we will be doing it later in a very similar form because it's a really good damn idea.

Now if I could find a way to put this in fewer words I'd be happier but... eh, oh well. I have got to go to bed.

E: nulled vote.
 
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I agree the warn Homura that Sayaka's getting close to the truth seems... counter productive and designed to ratchet paranoia. But Kai your alternative feels really convoluted and Firn really wants to move on.
 
Kaizuki said:
I don't at all like where the current vote is going.

Listen, the girl in front of us -- our best friend -- is visibly uncomfortable:



Please, for a moment, just re-read this and ask yourself: if I were talking to a girl about a touchy subject and she seemed uncertain and fidgety, then visibly swallowed, what should I do?

There are right and wrong answers to this question, and the standing vote --



-- is most certainly a wrong answer. The proper response to Homura being visibly uncomfortable in front of us while talking about "Telling Sayaka the Truth of Witches" does not involve blowing past that and into "Sayaka might figure out that you're a time traveler."

How wrong is it? Well, if we assume that we don't really have a good way to bring Homura around to being more comfortable with this in a healthy way, it's not that wrong. In that scenario, it's just Homura suffering because she has to, because it's worth it, because she can bear it. The offer to tell Sayaka the Truth of Witches is a done deal -- we can't really go back on it. It's still pretty wrong, if we make that assumption, because blowing past someone's discomfort is always wrong, but surely it's not that wrong...

Except, there's just one thing -- that assumption is garbage. And that makes this vote really, really wrong. Because we can do something healthy to help Homura be more comfortable with this -- and because that is what a good friend should do in this situation, that's what I'm going to lay out here, and it's what I'm going to vote for.

To understand what we can do for Homura here, we have to understand first why Homura is uncomfortable with Sayaka being told the Truth of Witches. In general, this is because Homura has watched Madoka be drawn by degrees into making a wish for roughly a hundred loops, because Madoka learning the Truth of Witches has been one of those degrees, because Homura desperately wants Madoka to not be drawn into making a wish by any degrees ("I don't want her involved"), and most of all, because Homura cannot conceive of a situation where Sayaka learning the Truth of Witches doesn't necessarily involve Madoka also learning the Truth of Witches.

Now, it's a real miracle she's only uncomfortable with this. She trusts us a lot.

She doesn't trust Sayaka. And why should she? What indication has Sayaka given to Homura that she cares about her? What has Sayaka done that would convince Homura that she could be trusted? "She's being useful," Homura has said, disbelievingly. Not "She's being my friend." Not "She's helping me." And especially not "She told me that she considers me her friend." Especially not "I feel that if I asked her to not tell Madoka something, she would agree to not tell it to Madoka."

In point of fact, so far this loop, the only person who has told Homura to her face that they consider her a friend is Sabrina. The only person who has told Homura to her face that they care about her is Sabrina.

If we want Homura to be at all comfortable with this -- and, I should note, if we want Homura to not freak the hell out at the idea of Miki Sayaka figuring out that she's a time traveler, something Homura considers a much worse topic than even the Truth of Witches, we are going to need Homura to be more comfortable with these things -- we need to get Homura to understand that Sayaka actually gives a damn about her beyond the simple respect she's shown her. Having Homura be aware that Sayaka respects her isn't enough: we need, bluntly, to have Homura feel (or at least feel more than she currently does, which is not at all) that "If I asked Sayaka to keep something secret from Madoka for me, she would agree to do so."

... Speaking of which, we also need that to be true, and I'm not one hundred percent certain that it is right at this instant. Sayaka is starting to twig to the fact that Homura is a person who should and must be cared about, but I don't know for sure that she's all the way there yet. She's made the realization that Homura isn't exactly happy, but I don't think she's made the realization that Homura is vulnerable, and I don't know for certain that she's made the realization that Homura is the kind of person worth caring for. She definitely has not expressed the kind of concern for Homura that Sabrina or Mami have --

Mami, who of course, made all of those realizations in one night...

... Not that anyone ever said as much to Homura. Or, for that matter, to Sayaka.

Which, I have to say, might go a long way to explain why Sayaka hasn't thought as well of Homura, hasn't been as concerned for Homura as has Mami.



So, to break this down: what I am saying here is, before we proceed with anything more, we want Homura to understand that we are going to be able to get Sayaka to keep all of this information from Madoka. I don't feel comfortable trying to approach that with some blanket reassurance line for two reasons -- one, because I wouldn't do this IRL, this "Well, we're going to blow past her visible discomfort way out of her comfort zone, but it will be okay because we'll tell her it'll be fine." And two, because we have a constructive alternative -- we get people to care about Homura and we get them to tell her that they care about her.

This has a gargantuan boatload of side benefits stemming from just having people express to Homura that they care about her: fortuneless orphan Homura, who had no one to care for her, who latched on to the first person to care for her so tightly that she has fought a war for her. Who doesn't think she deserves others caring about her, who doesn't think others do care about her...

Honestly, in hindsight, we should have done this a long time ago... but we can at least do it now before we tell Homura that she's going to have to place any more trust in the people around her than she already has.

[X] Tone: nonjudgemental, empathizing: She's not entirely comfortable with this.
-[X] Listen.
[X] Assuming the response isn't a surprise...
-[X] There's something she needs to hear -- should have heard before you broached this in the first place -- but she needs to hear it from someone else. Is it alright if you bring Mami in here and ask that she relate something to Homura? No secrets involved, just a story that she should hear from someone who isn't you.
--[X] Take a rope or something from Homura. Go grab Mami. Tell her you need a favor, that it's important, that she should trust herself, and just not push if Homura seems uncomfortable.
[X] Go back to Homura. Ask Mami to relate what transpired in the timestop during the hunt for Oriko from the point you found Homura asleep to when you woke her up as well as how she felt about it, specifically the parts concerning Homura.
-[X] You will be over there, because this needs to come from Mami and not you. If they tug on the rope you'll come over.


And after that?

After that -- we're going to tell Homura that we're going to keep Sayaka from telling Madoka about the Truth of Witches. And we're going to tell her how we're going to do that, and the way we're going to do that is simple: we're going to have Mami tell this same story to Sayaka, we're going to tell Sayaka the Truth of Witches, and then we are going to ask, politely, that Sayaka not tell Madoka the Truth of Witches for Homura's sake.

... At least, that's the outline.

Truth is? I recognize that this is maybe something we should do as a standalone. In a way that isn't, "Oh, this is about Sayaka, let me go grab Mami." I am fully aware of how weird that is -- and yet, it compares quite favorably to the standing vote, which is... potentially a disaster. I don't think there's a better way to maybe destroy all the positive developments between Homura and Sayaka than to tell Homura that Sayaka might figure out that Homura's a time traveler without some big changes first. Also, I'm kind of running out of time. I'm far from totally happy with how this post is written, but... I'd enjoin you to consider it, because if we don't do this now, then I dearly hope that we will be doing it later in a very similar form because it's a really good damn idea.

Now if I could find a way to put this in fewer words I'd be happier but... eh, oh well. I have got to go to bed.
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I have to go to bed too, and I have an everything-is-on-fire bug to deal with tomorrow morning. Can someone summarize this in, like, five sentences?
 
Vebyast said:
I have to go to bed too, and I have an everything-is-on-fire bug to deal with tomorrow morning. Can someone summarize this in, like, five sentences?
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Basically @Kaizuki suggests we may be blowing too fast past "Sayaka should learn the truth about Witches" and leap, skip, and jumping the gun right into "Oh, btw, Sayaka probably has all the clues she needs to figure out your a Time Traveller", and that we should probably scale back a lot of what we tell Homura to minimalize a bad reaction from her.
 
Vebyast said:
I have to go to bed too, and I have an everything-is-on-fire bug to deal with tomorrow morning. Can someone summarize this in, like, five sentences?
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Homura is worried about Witchbombing Sayaka because being useful isn't the same thing as following Homura's lead, so it could lead to Madoka being Witchbombed. This can be counteracted by showing that Sabrina isn't the only one who cares about Homura as a person, so we should have Mami talk about when she figured out that Homura is a woobie who needs naps and cream stew.
 
This seems overly convoluted and not necessary. Seriously we can't just tell Sayaka witchbombing Madoka is a bad idea?
 
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Vebyast said:
I have to go to bed too, and I have an everything-is-on-fire bug to deal with tomorrow morning. Can someone summarize this in, like, five sentences?
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If you want this in five sentences or less, "Don't tell Homura that Sayaka might find out she's a time traveler, or else vote me for reasons not summarizable in five sentences."

Muramasa said:
This seems overly convoluted and not necessary. Seriously we can't just tell Sayaka witchbombing Madoka is bad juju?
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I happen to agree with your first sentence except that this is an independently good idea. The second sentence... We can tell Sayaka that, but the problem is that if we tell Homura that we are going to tell Sayaka that, she's not actually going to buy it. If she accepts it it will be out of blind trust, not actual acceptance or anything resembling as much. And... And I don't like that. Given an alternative, I want Homura to be more comfortable.

That said, I think the best I'm going to hope for is deleting the first part of the current vote, and then doing this later as an independent action without relation to the current situation. Which -- to be clear -- I'd completely accept.

... Maybe I shoulda lead with that. Eh, hindsight.
 
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Alright, let's just do that and I'll just suck it up, yeah? What's a bit more on her shoulders... I'm not totally happy but yeah, no, I realize what I'm suggesting is weird -- it's weird because it's representative of me finally realizing how we can genuinely and effectively help Homura, and wanting to make a damn beeline off for it and fuck all of this crap... But it's perhaps too out of the blue to win, and I damn well failed to frame it that way, and...

Maaaaaaaaan I'm an idiot. I should have just fucking...

[] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
-[] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
-[] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.

[] Lower-priority topics:
-[] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
-[] Re-emphasize that you're always willing to answer any questions that Homura might have, and go fishing for anything she might want to know. Any decisions of yours she wants more context on, particular people she'd appreciate analyses of, that kind of thing.
-[] Ask if she has any copies of Walpurgisnacht's seed, and to examine one if she does.
-[] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
-[] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?

[] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
-[] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.

I did this all wrong and I will try to do it right in the morning I guess. Point about not doing the first section of the standing vote stands -- DONT DO THAT.

E: nulled vote.
 
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Kaizuki said:
If you want this in five sentences or less, "Don't tell Homura that Sayaka might find out she's a time traveler, or else vote me for reasons not summarizable in five sentences."



I happen to agree with your first sentence except that this is an independently good idea. The second sentence... We can tell Sayaka that, but the problem is that if we tell Homura that we are going to tell Sayaka that, she's not actually going to buy it. If she accepts it it will be out of blind trust, not actual acceptance or anything resembling as much. And... And I don't like that. Given an alternative, I want Homura to be more comfortable.

That said, I think the best I'm going to hope for is deleting the first part of the current vote, and then doing this later as an independent action without relation to the current situation. Which -- to be clear -- I'd completely accept.

... Maybe I shoulda lead with that. Eh, hindsight.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think Homura would accept what we tell her by trust, yes. But it's not blind trust. It is based on something. We have helped Homura considerably over the course of this loop. No loop has gone better than this one in spite of the massive divergences that have occurred. Mami is Mami but Homura is Sabrina's best friend.
 
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