Just a small omake for one of Sabrina's possible origins

Mami: Sooo your saying Sabrina is someone is a counterpart from an alternate universe.

Godoka: Correct

Homura: So who's counterpart is she anyway?

Godoka: Kirika's of course!

Mami: Wait what?!

Godoka: What? Didn't her erratic behavior tip you off? The two are the only ones around here on the same page. It really should have been obvious from the start.

Homura:......that answers so many questions.

Kirika: So does this mean that me and Sabrina are actually sort of sisters then?
 
[x] Go for stealth. Keep your grief presence as suppressed as possible, for as long as possible when you extract the Sendai girls.
[x] Look for Akiko. Get her to a point Sakura can teleport to even if it means going back to Mitakihara.
- [x] If Akiko is under attack, decompress grief as a distraction. Or grief signature feels like a witch let's use that to our advantage. Keep in touch with Akiko. If the Ishinomaki meguca break contact, then recompress grief.
- [x] If they do not break contact, go loud. Make them know the storm is coming for them. Grief, pyrotechnics, and rainbow colors if nothing else, it will make them pause or draw their attention. Worst comes to worst, drop the hammer. Addendum: Do this at close range to avoid enemy intervention.
- [x] Watch for other meguca, do not engage if possible.
- [x] Use your grief to create mobile cover for your group. Fire grief marbles but keep the speed low, aim for injury not the kill. If possible have Mami subdue them with ribbons. Have Kirika provide indirect fire or destroy their cover. Do not have her use her anti-magic under any circumstances.
 
Tam Lin said:
Actually, thought experiment. (JUST A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT, I'm not proposing to SCIENCE this), but witches incorporate bits of where they hatch into their barriers and themselves right? Like, the reason Sayaka had wheel attacks was because she witched out on a train station. If we repeatedly hatch a grief seed in a certain, controlled area, then defeated the witch, would she eventually incorporate enough of the area into herself to look moderately detached from her original form? (Witch Microevolution leading to Witch macroevolution)

Actually, Oktavia's wheels represent her karmic payload. There's a lot of romantic symbolism with wheels, and also a lot of despair allegory. You know, "Spinning your wheels", "no one wants to be a fifth wheel", and so on?

They're not even train wheels, dude. There's train tracks and iconography when Oktavia hatches but that fades out when Oktavia moves somewhere else; All Labyrinths seem to incorporate aspects of the real world in the 'surface' of the labyrinth, and the deeper you go, the more the witch's symbolism over-rides the real world's influence.

When traces of the real world are totally gone, you find the witch.

What if a FAMILIAR witches out?

Word of God is that a Familiar becomes a copy of it's parent.

Re: Charlotte, the furthest aspects of her barrier are dominated by the candy and sweets and tea party imagery, with hospital iconography nary to be seen. It IS a significantly present portion of her barrier in contrast to the train stuff, though, which is why it's absent immediately after Oktavia moves.

"Mmm, good to know," you say. "How about shaping the blast? Like, projecting a cone or something?"

Kirika shrugs. "Yeah, I can! Can completely melt a Witch like that, too. Kinda funny. I hit the Witch, and then it goes 'oh nooooo I'm meeeeelllltiiiing' and then splat." She waves her hands above her head and then flops bonelessly to the carpet to demonstrate, before rolling over and grinning at you. "Well, after I hit it a few times, anyway.*

I see my characterization of Kirika is infecting other quests.

Excellent.

Re: Kirika melting a witch, I thought it was pretty obvious that Witches are just made of Pure Magic/Grief (I'm pretty sure Grief is just 'black magic').

[x] Go for stealth. Keep your grief presence as suppressed as possible, for as long as possible when you extract the Sendai girls.
[x] Look for Akiko. Get her to a point Sakura can teleport to even if it means going back to Mitakihara.
- [x] If Akiko is under attack, decompress grief as a distraction. Or grief signature feels like a witch let's use that to our advantage. Keep in touch with Akiko. If the Ishinomaki meguca break contact, then recompress grief.
- [x] If they do not break contact, go loud. Make them know the storm is coming for them. Grief, pyrotechnics, and rainbow colors if nothing else, it will make them pause or draw their attention. Worst comes to worst, drop the hammer. Addendum: Do this at close range to avoid enemy intervention.
- [x] Watch for other meguca, do not engage if possible.
- [x] Use your grief to create mobile cover for your group. Fire grief marbles but keep the speed low, aim for injury not the kill. If possible have Mami subdue them with ribbons. Have Kirika provide indirect fire or destroy their cover. Do not have her use her anti-magic under any circumstances.
 
What if a witch hatches in another witch's barrier, though. I'm kinda curious how that affects things, but that might make a waltermarket night.
 
It happened in Kazumi Magica. Witches upon witches upon witches, and it just had barriers overlap on each other pretty messily.

There was the Dawn of Hyades, which is like Wally-lite, but that was a deliberate creation of Kanna's Connection magic.
 
I'm really interested in Grief and Witch SCIENCE, but the latter's a little dangerous even with my SCIENCEmind.
 
Stealth bandwagon, you don't have any grief marbles out and ready until the last second. That's a mistake. I strongly suggest you fix that.
 
I'm really interested in Grief and Witch SCIENCE, but the latter's a little dangerous even with my SCIENCEmind.

Well, SCIENCE is all very well and good for a laugh, but if you are really that interested in the whole grief and witch side of PMAS, might I suggest shifting your viewpoint from SCIENCE (i.e. the mad scientist Victor Frankenstein 'hey lets do this for a laugh, ethics? what ethics?' ) to proper science (i.e. taking into account the reaction of our friends, sussing out potential applications prior to testing, and coming up with morally/ethically acceptable tests to verify your hypothesis, etc.)

Some of your ideas have merit (and indeed, some have been proposed before in this thread), but getting carried away and not stopping to think of possible implications or not setting out some sort of plan (or even not having some clear end goal) makes it difficult for me, personally (and others, I suspect) to take your suggestions seriously.

Case in point: the suggestion that we test grief on Mami's hand. Base idea: what does grief do to biological material? OK, that's something we should check out. But the method was not thought out at all - a much MUCH simpler way would be to get two plants of similar size, type, age, health, and encase one in grief and monitor difference between them. Step up to small animals (insects, worms, lower lifeforms) if results promising. That's something that both the characters in story and thread participants might get behind.
If the original plan was meant as a joke, it was tough to tell considering the text-only nature of the thread (and was debatably in poor taste) but considering it as a legitimate plan it was less SCIENCE and more 'sociopathy with a flimsy excuse'.

Same with suggestion of experimenting on grief seeds: if we believe that witches can be reverted to puella, then we must limit ourselves to only the most gentle of experimentation with them, otherwise any destroyed grief seeds become an 'oh god, I/we could have saved her but instead we killed her/tortured her/gave her away to the Incubator' from ourselves and Mami/others.
Then again, witches might be completely unable to return to puella, we don't know yet, in which case I imagine we'd be open to more dangerous (for the seed) experimentation.
But considering the possibilities of the other option and the fallout that would result, do you really want to risk it?

TL;DR: By all means, continue to put ideas out on the thread - but if you want them to be taken seriously then you need to expand upon the initial idea. For me to consider an idea I'd need 1)the goal/end result/potential applications and also 2) a plan to test the hypothesis that is morally/ethically acceptable (i.e. won't make other Meguca's consider us a monster worse than witches).

P.s. timing also plays a role. Best time for consideration of science is when we've got free time ahead, otherwise they get lost under the more pressing matters.

/soapbox
 
You? Afraid of SCIENCE? Who are you and what have you done with tam Lin? :p

Only SCIENCE that can kill us :p

If it's SCIENCE that can kill other people, that's good for a laugh.

Puella Mengele Adfligo Systema, anyone?

Case in point: the suggestion that we test grief on Mami's hand.

What? I suggested we give her a weapon, not that we cut off her hand with grief/mist it with grief. We already know what that does. Testing it doesn't give us new information.

I suggested giving Mami a grief weapon/enchant her muskets with grief so we can be more intimidating.
 
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I suggested giving Mami a grief weapon/enchant her muskets with grief so we can be more intimidating.
Sorry about that, then - didn't see that particular post. Skimmed and saw 'Can we give them grief...' several more posts and then:
If Mami's hand 'rots off or something', we can just heal it. No big.

So you can sorta see why I thought that you were suggesting experimentation on Mami (especially after the 'experimenting on witches souls' posts prior to that).

However, the point remains: without testing grief infusion of weapons small scale first, we very well could burn/rot part of Mami's hand (or any poor sod that she happens to hit with the projectile from that weapon). It wouldn't be good for her mental state to see flesh sloughing off the bone due to our powers (and god forbid that the enhanced weaponry kills or witches out the girl who was hit - negotiation would be off the table so fast the tea set wouldn't even wobble).

Edit:typo. Meant to write 'flesh sloughing off her own bones'
 
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Isn't that the case ANYWAY? I don't doubt Kirika would care about lopping off a few limbs in Mami's presence should things come to blows.
Forget the trauma, THIS is a bigger concern:
(and god forbid that the enhance weaponry kills or witches out the girl who was hit - negotiation would be off the table so fast the tea set wouldn't even wobble).
Do we really want to be shoving Grief into a Magus's body? If the weapon radiates Grief at all, or breaks down or something, it runs the risk of filling the girl's Soul Gem before we realize what's happening.

Let's wait to use Grief Weapons on Magi until we've done some small scale testing. Maybe we could try stabbing someone with some small Grief Needles during the next fight, letting them dissolve, and actively tracking what happens to their body and Corruption levels? That should be a relatively small scale test that will tell us if we can safely cut off limbs with Grief or impale them with it without instantly Witching them or something.
 
Forget the trauma, THIS is a bigger concern:

Do we really want to be shoving Grief into a Magus's body? If the weapon radiates Grief at all, or breaks down or something, it runs the risk of filling the girl's Soul Gem before we realize what's happening.

Let's wait to use Grief Weapons on Magi until we've done some small scale testing. Maybe we could try stabbing someone with some small Grief Needles during the next fight, letting them dissolve, and actively tracking what happens to their body and Corruption levels? That should be a relatively small scale test that will tell us if we can safely cut off limbs with Grief or impale them with it without instantly Witching them or something.

That works.

Actually, I kind of have an idea. I wonder if we can get them to agree to fight in a witch barrier to avoid civilian casualties.
 
Out goal is to stop them from dying/witching out. Fighting in a witch barrier prevents civilian casualties, but it doesn't stop them from accumulating grief/ dying. Plus, I doubt they will go for it anyway. Witches can and do kill megucas, after all. Why would they take the extra risk for the sake of some faceless nameless people you have never met?
 
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...unless we can make a false Barrier somehow, or completely take over a Witch's existing one...

...more MAGIC for later, I suppose...
 
Out goal is to stop them from dying/witching out. Fighting in a witch barrier prevents civilian casualties, but it doesn't stop them from accumulating grief/ dying. Plus, I doubt they will go for it anyway. Witches can and do kill megucas, after all. Why take the extra risk for the sake of some faceless nameless people you have never met?

that's both for Mandan and Meguka right?
 
Fair enough. Not sure when we'll get another chance to experiment on non-friendly Magi, though.
 
Fair enough. Not sure when we'll get another chance to experiment on non-friendly Magi, though.

This is UNETHICAL SCIENCE, the worst kind of SCIENCE, and you should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting this course of SCIENCE, you poor excuse for a SCIENTIST.
 
Vote tally:
##### 3.19
[x] Go loud. Grief wings, barrier of mist, the works.
[x] Look for Akiko. Rin and Sakura are hard to corner with Sakura's abilities, and Akiko is likely to know more about the situation anyway.
-[x] If we find Akiko under fire, use our grief shields to protect her while bailing her out. Try and see if we can talk the Ishino girls down, but don't push it if they are obviously unwilling to listen.
[x] Keep an eye out for other megucas while on the way, but try not to engage them.
[x] Regroup with Rin and Sakura afterwards, then retreat to some place safe.
-[x] Once they are no longer in any direct danger, get them to fill you in on what is going on. Don't back down on this, if it feels like they are hiding something or being less than truthful, keep pressing.
[x] If combat erupts at any point:
-[x] Be intimidating and flashy, but focus on the defence. Intercept attacks with grief shields and subdue them either using grief binds or Mami's ribbons, but don't seriously harm anyone if you can help it. We're here to stop the war, not kill everyone involved.
-[x] Keep Kirika away from the fighting. She doesn't have a reliable way of subduing hostile megucas without resorting to her antimagic, and we want to keep that ability a secret until it becomes necessary to bust it out.

No. of votes: 9
Cannongerbil, AnonymousRabbit, Loops, Muramasa, Aranfan, Tam Lin, defenestrator, Onmur, landcollector

[x] Go for stealth. Keep your grief presence as suppressed as possible, for as long as possible when you extract the Sendai girls.
[x] Look for Akiko. Get her to a point Sakura can teleport to even if it means going back to Mitakihara.
-[x] If Akiko is under attack, decompress grief as a distraction. Our grief signature feels like a witch let's use that to our advantage. Keep in touch with Akiko. If the Ishinomaki meguca break contact, then recompress grief.
-[x] If they do not break contact, go loud. Make them know the storm is coming for them. Grief, pyrotechnics, and rainbow colors if nothing else, it will make them pause or draw their attention. Worst comes to worst, drop the hammer. Addendum: Do this at close range to avoid enemy intervention.
-[x] Watch for other meguca, do not engage if possible.
-[x] Use your grief to create mobile cover for your group. Fire grief marbles but keep the speed low, aim for injury not the kill. If possible have Mami subdue them with ribbons. Have Kirika provide indirect fire or destroy their cover. Do not have her use her anti-magic under any circumstances.
No. of votes: 1
Alfa290

[x] Stealth Mode - standard safety measures apply (i.e. checking with senses for Megucas, etc)
[x] Akiko, we're coming for you first. Where are you? Any landmarks we can use?
-[x] Rin, where can you and Sakura meet up with us?
[x] Pick up Akiko and magic carpet to rendezvous point.
[x] First priority is to get out of the city and into the suburbs - less likely for Meguca to find us there. Once out of the danger zone we can decide what our next move is with the group.
[x] If combat erupts, fight defensively - use shields to cover retreat and Mami's ribbons to bind/trap/delay pursuit (Anti-magic is last resort)
-[x] regroup ASAP and get out of dodge - fighting risks permanently pissing off Ishinomaki before we know everyone's motivations and may lead to collapse of negotiations before they even begin.

No. of votes: 1
PhantomFractions

[x] Go for stealth. Keep your grief presence as suppressed as possible, for as long as possible when you extract the Sendai girls.
[x] Look for Akiko. Get her to a point Sakura can teleport to even if it means going back to Mitakihara.
-[x] If Akiko is under attack, decompress grief as a distraction. Or grief signature feels like a witch let's use that to our advantage. Keep in touch with Akiko. If the Ishinomaki meguca break contact, then recompress grief.
-[x] If they do not break contact, go loud. Make them know the storm is coming for them. Grief, pyrotechnics, and rainbow colors if nothing else, it will make them pause or draw their attention. Worst comes to worst, drop the hammer. Addendum: Do this at close range to avoid enemy intervention.
-[x] Watch for other meguca, do not engage if possible.
-[x] Use your grief to create mobile cover for your group. Fire grief marbles but keep the speed low, aim for injury not the kill. If possible have Mami subdue them with ribbons. Have Kirika provide indirect fire or destroy their cover. Do not have her use her anti-magic under any circumstances.
No. of votes: 7
Guilop, Ugolino, Dirtnap, EtchedSteel, celdak, Walker of the Yellow Path, AuraTwilight
So doing an approximate clustering on Stealth/not stealth, it's more or less even.
 
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