Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
Shadowhisker said:
What else is there? Are there any other emotions that could serve as a fundamental magical force?

Wraith!Not!Madoka did refer to human emotions as an "anomaly", I believe. What that implies about humanity's place, or the place of sapient life in general, in the universe...

Anyway, if all emotions are universal aberrations, then it follows that magic could derive from any emotion, right?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is exactly the point. All emotions are magic, it's how Kyubey drew the connection in the first place.
 
AuraTwilight said:
This is exactly the point. All emotions are magic, it's how Kyubey drew the connection in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So, do Hope/Despair just provide the right balance of ease-of-production and bang-for-your-buck for the Incubators, versus, say, fear? Karmic Destiny seems to imply that Hope and Despair are special, though.
 
Shadowhisker said:
So, do Hope/Despair just provide the right balance of ease-of-production and bang-for-your-buck for the Incubators, versus, say, fear? Karmic Destiny seems to imply that Hope and Despair are special, though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Karmic Destiny is just the weight of total emotional impact you will have had on others. Hope and Despair are balanced against one another, and important, because they're what the Incubators designed the system to run off of.
 
Last edited:
There are some indications that "Hope" is a blanket term for all positive emotions, and "Grief" is a blanket term for all negative emotions, with Homura's "Love" in rebellion being a weird and unique superposition of the two, as opposed to actually being the broader concept of (Romantic, Platonic, etc) Love as one might more generally interpret it.

So in that sense, "Hope" and "Grief" would form the superset of all emotions, but it isn't because Hope or Grief themselves are unique beyond having been chosen as the representative names of broader categories.

E: I was considering whether Apathy would be a more "conventional" emotion that lies along the boundary of Hope and Grief, but given how associated it is with the sort of malaise that comes with depression, I think I can safely file it under "Grief".
 
Last edited:
Redshirt Army said:
There are some indications that "Hope" is a blanket term for all positive emotions, and "Grief" is a blanket term for all negative emotions, with Homura's "Love" in rebellion being a weird and unique superposition of the two, as opposed to actually being the broader concept of (Romantic, Platonic, etc) Love as one might more generally interpret it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is true. Not conclusive, but it could certainly be argued to be that way without it being an insane or dishonest argument.
 
Godwinson said:
Karmic Destiny is just the weight of total emotional impact you will have had on others. Hope and Despair are balanced against one another, and important, because they're what the Incubators designed the system to run off of.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Wha?

I thought Karmic Destiny was the whole "hope and despair must balance to zero" thing; that's why Kyubey was screaming about Madoka breaking Karmic Destiny, because she changed the playing field so that hope would always win in the end (barring extraordinary circumstances).

Am I wrong? I'm confused.
 
Shadowhisker said:
Wha?

I thought Karmic Destiny was the whole "hope and despair must balance to zero" thing; that's why Kyubey was screaming about Madoka breaking Karmic Destiny, because she changed the playing field so that hope would always win in the end (barring extraordinary circumstances).

Am I wrong? I'm confused.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

"Karmic Destiny" is basically literally "that actions have consequenses". Or entropy, in other words. :V
 
The Phoenixian said:
Also on the subject of enchantments and grief, do you think we should test if enchanted grief does anything special if we take it outside our range and just... leave it there until it dissipates? Seeing as we haven't seen if it does anything special outside our range yet like raw grief tries to.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We stuck an enchanted chibi's arm out of our range and it lost the witchiness but held together.
Firnagzen said:
Your arm dissolves. Not into loose, free-floating Grief, but into... enchanted Grief. Raw and uncontrollable, but still coherent. And it doesn't hurt, it just... doesn't feel like anything.

You pull your arm back. A thought, a second's worth of focus, and your arm reforms.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Redshirt Army said:
"Karmic Destiny" is basically literally "that actions have consequenses". Or entropy, in other words. :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So, then, why was coobie having a breakdown when Madoka made her final, Canon wish then? It can't be "violating entropy", that's the entire point of meguca. And there are certainly consequences to Madoka's wish- she wipes herself from existence, and even if she's fine with it, that indirectly led to Homura's own breakdown in Rebellion. Is it just the rat freaking out because it seems like its whole setup is coming down?
 
Shadowhisker said:
So, then, why was coobie having a breakdown when Madoka made her final, Canon wish then? It can't be "violating entropy", that's the entire point of meguca. And there are certainly consequences to Madoka's wish- she wipes herself from existence, and even if she's fine with it, that indirectly led to Homura's own breakdown in Rebellion. Is it just the rat freaking out because it seems like its whole setup is coming down?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Karmic Destiny is the "tendency of all things, when left alone, to trend towards becoming worse" that Urobuchi was referring to in his semi-famous quote.

It's the idea that things have consequences, and that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Kyubey was trying to game entropy, but the system he created still operated on fundamentally similar principles, even if it was anentropic - there was a balance of sorts between hope and grief.

Madoka's wish upended this larger system, which is intentionally set up to be a juxtaposition to how Kyubey violated the system of entropy - only instead of doing so selfishly, for her own ends, Madoka took the opposite approach, and personally took on the burden of all the grief in the world, thus setting her up as the antithesis of Kyubey.

It's actual, legitimate poetic irony.
 
Ah. That makes sense.

And the metaphysical reason things got worse in spite (possibly literal, on the universe's part) of Madokami is because of the curses left over from the previous iteration of reality- Homura's unresolved issues. (Well, there will have also been UKG, but Madokami seems to have her well in hand.)
 
Redshirt Army said:
Karmic Destiny is the "tendency of all things, when left alone, to trend towards becoming worse" that Urobuchi was referring to in his semi-famous quote.

It's the idea that things have consequences, and that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Kyubey was trying to game entropy, but the system he created still operated on fundamentally similar principles, even if it was anentropic - there was a balance of sorts between hope and grief.

Madoka's wish upended this larger system, which is intentionally set up to be a juxtaposition to how Kyubey violated the system of entropy - only instead of doing so selfishly, for her own ends, Madoka took the opposite approach, and personally took on the burden of all the grief in the world, thus setting her up as the antithesis of Kyubey.

It's actual, legitimate poetic irony.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That is a much clearer way to describe it than what I was writing up. Thank you.
 
Sooo... hello. Long time lurker here, finally coming out of the cave.
...
Don't know what else to say.

If we're still in topic on seraphbrina, what about trying wings made of desire (if it even is possible)? Not yet hope nor grief, but with the potential to become both.

*backtracks into the cave*
 
arK said:
Sooo... hello. Long time lurker here, finally coming out of the cave.
...
Don't know what else to say.

If we're still in topic on seraphbrina, what about trying wings made of desire (if it even is possible)? Not yet hope nor grief, but with the potential to become both.

*backtracks into the cave*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
FRESH MEAT!
 
arK said:
Sooo... hello. Long time lurker here, finally coming out of the cave.
...
Don't know what else to say.

If we're still in topic on seraphbrina, what about trying wings made of desire (if it even is possible)? Not yet hope nor grief, but with the potential to become both.

*backtracks into the cave*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Greetings, fresh meat! As for your question, I'm not sure if we have enough 'desire' to be able to make said wings. However, I think It can't hurt to try.
 
arK said:
Sooo... hello. Long time lurker here, finally coming out of the cave.
...
Don't know what else to say.

If we're still in topic on seraphbrina, what about trying wings made of desire (if it even is possible)? Not yet hope nor grief, but with the potential to become both.

*backtracks into the cave*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fresh Meat!
 
arK said:
Sooo... hello. Long time lurker here, finally coming out of the cave.
...
Don't know what else to say.

If we're still in topic on seraphbrina, what about trying wings made of desire (if it even is possible)? Not yet hope nor grief, but with the potential to become both.

*backtracks into the cave*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Delicious. Finally some fresh meat.

:V
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top