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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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I feel stupid only now realizing, but reverting a Witch to a Magical Girl solves nothing. They'll just be trapped in the same cycle again, of needing cleansing. It also sounds really bad for one's soul to keep switching between Meguca and Witch.

Prior to the Evil Nut and other shenanigans, Kazumi XIII actually seemed pretty stable. Sure some refinement and research is necessary, but it really is sounding easier to just restore a Clear Seed to sanity & hook them up to a new body.
 
Kkutlord said:
I feel stupid only now realizing, but reverting a Witch to a Magical Girl solves nothing. They'll just be trapped in the same cycle again, of needing cleansing. It also sounds really bad for one's soul to keep switching between Meguca and Witch.

Prior to the Evil Nut and other shenanigans, Kazumi XIII actually seemed pretty stable. Sure some refinement and research is necessary, but it really is sounding easier to just restore a Clear Seed to sanity & hook them up to a new body.
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, Kkutlord, but isn't Kazumi XIII a clone with implanted personality of Kazusa and powered by a Grief Seed?
She is in no shape or form reincarnation or resurrection of original Kazusa, she is an original entity. In fact, she one time refers to Kazusa's Grief Seed about "her acting to protect her friends".
I mean, I don't have anything against Kazumi XIII, ( aside from stealing our Witch Girl shtick. Or maybe we are stealing her shtick, huh. ) but she just doesn't seem to solve any of our problems.

And everything else aside, how are you planning on getting the Pleiades to create her? Without Witching Out Kazumi, I mean.
 
Basically, despite being made out of Grief and Witch matter, she was pretty stable anyways. Thus, evidence that it is possible to set up a stable existence for Witches without reverting them to Magical Girls (thus making a second/third/etc Witchout possible).

Regarding her creation, we have to perfect clone and/or artificial bodies anyways. So it isn't too unreasonable to suggest producing backup bodies for our friends. Now, actually pulling off Kazumi XIII's existence is the hard part, but we're way off from there anyways. Still, it does seem in-character for Sabrina to wanna help her exist anyways.
 
But Kazumi isn't a Witch?..
She's a clone made of Grief? That was hella unstable to boot, hence Kazumi Thirteen.
You know what, whatever.
I don't care either way. Kazumi is not my waifu, and having an alive and well Kazusa is a good enough outcome to me.
...
Inb4 Kazusa And Niko device a plan to clone her so that every Pleiade would have a Kazumi of her own. :confused:
 
Kkutlord said:
I feel stupid only now realizing, but reverting a Witch to a Magical Girl solves nothing. They'll just be trapped in the same cycle again, of needing cleansing. It also sounds really bad for one's soul to keep switching between Meguca and Witch.
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That would mean changing the way a soul gem works so it doesn't create grief as a byproduct of magic. Soul surgery, basically.
 
Torgamous said:
She's no more a cure for witching than Hijiri would be if Niko witched.
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Ironically, Hijiri presented herself through Jyuubey as a replacement Niko, as per Niko's Wish. :V

Of course they took it as Niko having a Wish granted 1UP, but...

Raiseth said:
But Kazumi isn't a Witch?..
She's a clone made of Grief? That was hella unstable to boot, hence Kazumi Thirteen.
You know what, whatever.
I don't care either way. Kazumi is not my waifu, and having an alive and well Kazusa is a good enough outcome to me.
...
Inb4 Kazusa And Niko device a plan to clone her so that every Pleiade would have a Kazumi of her own. :confused:
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If we propose that each Pleiade should have two Kazumis, and ask for an extra Kazumi to hang out at Mitakihara, for Mami's sake... Then there would be XIII Kazumis!

Edit: Though, how were they counted? Was Kazumi XIII the thirteenth clone, or the twelfth? If she was the thirteenth, we'd still need to justify one more clone.

Edit2: Of course, given that Kazumi already copied our Chibies, it'd be much easier to have her copy our full clones and then she can spam 13 or 113 clones whenever she wants.
 
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Kaizuki said:
Homura won't want us to tell her.
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Yeah, but I have a feeling that not telling Madoka is going to blow up in our face somehow. If we present Rionna as a situation that's already been handled, maybe...

The thing is, Madoka's pretty damn perceptive, and'll notice that the mere thought of Riona is troubling for Sabrina.

Hmm. This is difficult.
 
So a Witch's Familiars can turn into a copy of the Witch they spawn from, and have a chance of dropping a Grief Seed when killed. So what happens if we try to De-Witch two of the same Witch? Would there then be multiple copies of the same Magical Girl?
 
Shadowhisker said:
Yeah, but I have a feeling that not telling Madoka is going to blow up in our face somehow. If we present Rionna as a situation that's already been handled, maybe...

The thing is, Madoka's pretty damn perceptive, and'll notice that the mere thought of Riona is troubling for Sabrina.

Hmm. This is difficult.
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I don't think it's difficult?

The boogeyguca came to Mitakihara and we took her down and are even planning to do our best at rehabilitating her.

Nothing left unfinished that's not a WIP, so no reason for Doka to think she needs to become meguca to help. Meanwhile, we owned one of the worst, which goes to show we can handle them.

We probably can sell Homu on telling Doka this, if she needs convincing?

Newix said:
So a Witch's Familiars can turn into a copy of the Witch they spawn from, and have a chance of dropping a Grief Seed when killed. So what happens if we try to De-Witch two of the same Witch? Would there then be multiple copies of the same Magical Girl?
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The eternal dilemma.

What about the souls the familiar killed\consumed in order to grow? Can they be saved?
 
Onmur said:
What about the souls the familiar killed\consumed in order to grow? Can they be saved?
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I'm guessing that if we dewitched a familiar grown witch like we would a "natural" one, we'd get a unique being, like Sabrina, or Kazumi XIII. To get the five souls out would require extensive soul surgery; the metaphysical equivalent of separating conjoined twins.

Actually, what happens to the souls of people a witch kills? Are they consumed, turned into familiars, tortured for all of eternity, or what? And if it's that last one, what happens when the witch is killed, and collapses into a Grief Seed?
 
Shadowhisker said:
I'm guessing that if we dewitched a familiar grown witch like we would a "natural" one, we'd get a unique being, like Sabrina, or Kazumi XIII. To get the five souls out would require extensive soul surgery; the metaphysical equivalent of separating conjoined twins.

Actually, what happens to the souls of people a witch kills? Are they consumed, turned into familiars, tortured for all of eternity, or what? And if it's that last one, what happens when the witch is killed, and collapses into a Grief Seed?
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The easiest answer for us would be that they're dead. :thonk:

Can Familiar grown Witches be told aparts from their Witch moms, anyway? I don't think any distinction has been pointed out.

... Do familiars consume souls or do they simply grow up by killing?
 
Onmur said:
The easiest answer for us would be that they're dead. :thonk:

Can Familiar grown Witches be told aparts from their Witch moms, anyway? I don't think any distinction has been pointed out.

... Do familiars consume souls or do they simply grow up by killing?
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SomeoneTM​ on this thread speculated that the familiar needs to consume Souls of other people in order to find "parts" similar to her mom and stitch them together in a new Soul. Kinda like a collection quest in World of Warcraft, but less brutal and despair-inducing.
 
Raiseth said:
SomeoneTM​ on this thread speculated that the familiar needs to consume Souls of other people in order to find "parts" similar to her mom and stitch them together in a new Soul. Kinda like a collection quest in World of Warcraft, but less brutal and despair-inducing.
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.... nomming souls to make a NEW soul is LESS brutal and despair inducing then a WoW quest?
 
I see no confirmation that Familiars in any way genuinely damage the souls of people they kill. Word of Inucurry is that Familiars kill humans in order to consume their magic if their mother Witch isn't feeding them enough.

it seems that, honestly, Familiars are just spawning new souls.
 
Raiseth said:
SomeoneTM​ on this thread speculated that the familiar needs to consume Souls of other people in order to find "parts" similar to her mom and stitch them together in a new Soul. Kinda like a collection quest in World of Warcraft, but less brutal and despair-inducing.
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Yes, that's what I assume we've all have been assuming since hearing KB's explanation, like, it's where KB points at?

My random thought is... What if they don't? Humans, animals and plants don't need to consume souls to grow.

Maybe Familiars don't actually need souls either, and we're just misled.

Of course, in PMAS we've observed that absence on something inside Familiars, and there's no ethical way to prove whether it's filled by souls or the experience of murder unless we can disprove the negative.

Just a thought.

Edit: kinda ninja'd.

Kind of would need to rewatch the relevant scene... Maybe the familiars grow simply due to being emancipated, and the X number of kills they need to get before growing up is more an observed average KB is making sound as if it was a requirement.
 
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Yeah reverting a witch to a magical girl just puts them in the same position of being a magical girl (and all the suffering that entails) but being a magical girl in a Post-Sabrina world is considerably less likely to be suffering than in a pre-Sabrina world, and besides, we're also slowly working on unlimited cleansing. It's not like that isn't a project on our list.
 
Raiseth said:
SomeoneTM​ on this thread speculated that the familiar needs to consume Souls of other people in order to find "parts" similar to her mom and stitch them together in a new Soul. Kinda like a collection quest in World of Warcraft, but less brutal and despair-inducing.
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DB_Explorer said:
.... nomming souls to make a NEW soul is LESS brutal and despair inducing then a WoW quest?
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Speaking as an on-&-off WoW player, a lot of quests, collection and otherwise, are less brutal and despair inducing than PMMM.

However, a lot of things involving the Forsaken (rogue, sapient zombies, and a member race of the Horde) are not the case. Now, normally, Forsaken are a lot like the humans they're raised from, bar some difficulty in feeling positive emotions. Nothing too bad. However, their leader has set up a personality cult that makes the Kims look unpopular, and as of the most recent expansion, has explicitly stated that she wants to wipe out all life on the planet, with her motivating force being (among other things) spite.

Forsaken quests have always been iffy on the morality scale. Like slaughtering civvies, Horde or Alliance, to stitch together their corpses into flesh golems, that's bad enough. However, looking into the lore, and learning that each of every one of the spirits of those victims are still conscious, and are suffering eternally, inside of said flesh golems, is worse.

World of Warcraft is surprisingly grimdark.
 
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Shadowhisker said:
Speaking as an on-&-off WoW player, a lot of quests, collection and otherwise, are less brutal and despair inducing than PMMM.

However, a lot of things involving the Forsaken (rogue, sapient zombies, and a member race of the Horde) are not the case. Now, normally, Forsaken are a lot like the humans they're raised from, bar some difficulty in feeling positive emotions. Nothing too bad. However, their leader has set up a personality cult that makes the Kims look unpopular, and as of the most recent expansion, has explicitly stated that she wants to wipe out all life on the planet, with her motivating force being (among other things) spite.

Forsaken quests have always been iffy on the morality scale. Like slaughtering civvies, Horde or Alliance, to stitch together their corpses into flesh golems, that's bad enough. However, looking into the lore, and learning that each of every one of the spirits of those victims are still conscious, and are suffering eternally, inside of said flesh golems, is worse.

World of Warcraft is surprisingly grimdark.
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Sure, but more importantly I've killed like a dozen wolves and they've only dropped one pelt.
 
Shadowhisker said:
Yeah, but I have a feeling that not telling Madoka is going to blow up in our face somehow. If we present Rionna as a situation that's already been handled, maybe...

The thing is, Madoka's pretty damn perceptive, and'll notice that the mere thought of Riona is troubling for Sabrina.

Hmm. This is difficult.
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How is it going to blow up in our face?

Do you not remember when we accidentally told Madoka about Walpurgis?
 
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