Umm...I thought we would only Witchbomb Mami when we found a way to make Witches Meguca again.

Because the moment this happens Mami development is going to backtrack hard.
 
Sabrina probably could pull off Doppels and not Witchout, though... Doppel!Dedoleres could probably uniquely manage prolonged coherence and that would still be super bad.

Just as an FYI, Doppel-summoning has serious risks of permanent mental damage to the summoner, and they're still potentially just as dangerous. The canon of Kriemhild Gretchen is that if Madoka ever summons her as a Doppel, she'll crush the planet.
 
Do not speak of impossibilities unless it is to deny them.

Fuck yes. Madoka wished that everything could be fixed, with the same oomph behind that wish that powered her retroactively rewriting the laws of Metaphysics for all but one reality. (That reality being the timeline of Magia Record. And we don't know what is up with that.) Even if Madoka wasn't thinking about multiversal scales when she made that wish, she chose us, Sufficient Velocity, to help make that wish come true. And we take everything to its logical conclusion.
 
Wait question.....

OK if Madoka made a wish that made us, but Madokami is an existence which transcends space could one of the contributing factors to Madoka's wish that results in Sabrina be she had one of those dreams but it showed her a world where she fixed almost everything but left a world where she did'nt exist and thus Homura was forever alone?

Or does Madokami not existence as such since Madoka never made the wish to create the law of cycles?

?___?
 
Wait question.....

OK if Madoka made a wish that made us, but Madokami is an existence which transcends space could one of the contributing factors to Madoka's wish that results in Sabrina be she had one of those dreams but it showed her a world where she fixed almost everything but left a world where she did'nt exist and thus Homura was forever alone?

Or does Madokami not existence as such since Madoka never made the wish to create the law of cycles?

?___?

Well, we saw a Madoka with golden eyes in the first post, and Madokami did appear in that semi-canon "I wish to live" omake Firn posted.

Specifically, in Madokami's own words: in one possibility, she will have wished wipe all witches and herself from existence. Even if she will never have done it, she still did.

Therefore, even if there's no extant reality in this multiverse where Madoka became Madokami, the possibility exists that she will have, so she does.

EDIT: Also, what Aura said.
 
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Wait question.....

OK if Madoka made a wish that made us, but Madokami is an existence which transcends space could one of the contributing factors to Madoka's wish that results in Sabrina be she had one of those dreams but it showed her a world where she fixed almost everything but left a world where she did'nt exist and thus Homura was forever alone?

Or does Madokami not existence as such since Madoka never made the wish to create the law of cycles?

?___?
A sign that Madokami is working in the timeline is the existence of Wraiths if there are no Wraths, then Devil Homura has taken over and is using Incubators as vessels for the curses.

If Witches still exist, then Madokami has no influence in this Timeline, but she can exist as a observer a la Magia Record.
 
I kind of hope that Firn just fiats Sabrina's perspective on this. Even if it doesn't end up matching my own, it'd still be worth it to me just to avoid the thread descending into freshman philosophy "what is the self" shitstorms. :/
I'm pretty sure there is an objective standard for this in PMAS that Sabrina would need to figure out and understand in order to do it in the first place.
 
Far as I know, we haven't hit any roadblocks yet on our current dewitching method. Until we do and have an idea why, I'm not sure why this is a discussion?
 
I'll point out that, as far as artificial bodies go, we're already making good progress:

We know we can make grief- and enchanted grief-chibis that we can control, and we know that Aurora will interact with nearby enchanted grief and has a minor degree of control over it (in the form of glomming onto and wrapping a sphere around itself, but that's enough to demonstrate control). At present, there are two possible steps forward on that line of inquiry: either seeing if we can lend control of our chibi to someone, or trying to expand the range of what she can do with glommed grief.

(And in the second case, there are a multiple possible sub-routes: either forming something from enchanted grief and seeing if Aurora can incorporate it, or feeding in powerful emotions relating to the senses and seeing if she tries to follow along, for two.)


Ultimately, though in this sort of case I'd much rather take another alternative, say ask Niko's help in that area, than deal with other people's bodies. Even if they're not using it it just... seems kinda skeevy if they're still alive. Bodily autonomy and all that.
So are we gonna make a Grief Toucan body and give it to Aurora already? I've been waiting years for this. :V

One of our mothers is a goddess.
Excuse me? One?

Far as I know, we haven't hit any roadblocks yet on our current dewitching method. Until we do and have an idea why, I'm not sure why this is a discussion?
Fun, probably.
 
Yes. Homumom is logically this Homura, not Canon Homura, and this Homura is still a Magical Girl.

Even if that weren't the case, though, Akuma Homura isn't really a goddess--she's comparable to one, and fakes it well due to having captured the Law of Cycles, but she hasn't ascended to Concepthood like Madokami (as far as I know). Unless I've missed a lore revelation along the way. Quite possible.
 
Yes. Homumom is logically this Homura, not Canon Homura, and this Homura is still a Magical Girl.

Even if that weren't the case, though, Akuma Homura isn't really a goddess--she's comparable to one, and fakes it well due to having captured the Law of Cycles, but she hasn't ascended to Concepthood like Madokami (as far as I know). Unless I've missed a lore revelation along the way. Quite possible.
Well, maybe Homucifer is this Homura, just disguised and memory altered. Waiting to reveal herself at the last moment.

Or, really, I don't think we'd turn down an extra mom if she wanted to be our mom. :thonk:

I vote we dispute anyone, including Homu, who claims that she's a Devil and not a Goddess. Because.

Homura - Patron saint of 'protect my waifu'
'Why don't you just put the whole world in a bottle, Akemi Homura?'

"..."

*Challenge accepted*
 
De-witching progress on a communication front is no longer dependent upon incarnation of one form or another!
First, we need the soul to be sane, and it looks like we are getting close to a result that won't scorch our brain next time.
We have the copied Soul Powers, and that should get us a minimum required level of success. The question is how to use them. If we can train to use one of Sayaka's gems without her, we de-couple a few issues.

As far as determining the form of a given resurrectee, simulation has to be the best concept. In a mental construct, or in a barrier, producing the facsimile of a body image from an active consciousness should be easy and safe. That can double as an adaptation training session too.

Niko can fabricate bodies, my only reservation is that we haven't asked if doing such in Japan requires millions of gallons of ultra-pure water, or if that only applies to human tech cyborgs.
But seriously, her base material could literally be about 130kg of chicken eggs, and a pinch of minerals.

The way to connect almost any suitable being to a body is already here. Mami might be well able, but she doesn't have to do it for us.
Sabrina has the Control Enchantment.
It was expressly named. With a bit of level grinding, I expect all we have to do is enchant some viable substrate. Such as a body with no soul. Our intent is the key. If we study what the Incubators equipped us with, we can grow our magic into the human-style nerve analogues we have seen. Then we just will it "to be under the control of her." Put them in contact, and watch the miracle happen. With time, an active magical soul should take over the upkeep.

If we really want to start out with a witch-girl right now, we can just make a literal clay golem. No complication from using Grief. A quiescent Witch is still not quite a girl. I expect magical therapy prior to reincarnation will make the experience more pleasant for both of us, however.

So are we gonna make a Grief Toucan body and give it to Aurora already? I've been waiting years for this. :V
If you are willing to use clay, toys or wood, I could see this as a step forward. Grief has a few extra cautions associated with it, and our end-result is supposed to be mundane flesh. Will you barter away the material?


My best approach is to keep at it until we have enough hope in the core to re-form a proper Soul Gem. To get there in reasonable time requires a large Hope-enchanting ritual.
 
OMFG, I somehow only just noticed the Hisaomi's diary entry in index. What the actual fuck o_O:o

That was an incredibly unpleasant surprise. I'm not sure how I missed that. Holy shit.

On another slightly less horrifying note, you guys have any theories about the what the hell is going on with Sayaka mysteriously dying in Oriko's vision around the period of time when the soul stealing serial killer shows up? It appears that Rionna killed her, but what does that imply about the Feathers phenomenon?
 
But seriously, her base material could literally be about 130kg of chicken eggs, and a pinch of minerals.
Inb4 we lose a leg and an arm.
Sabrina has the Control Enchantment.
It was expressly named.
There were worries that Sabrina has a bit of a control freak streak, in regards to "I" wish to control grief. The theory is that Sabrina would need someone to take over, to break Sabrina's control.
 
Hey, have we told Madoka and Hitomi about Riohna being batshit? That sounds like something we might want to keep them in the loop on.
We kind of tend to leave them out of the loop when conducting meguca business.

>_>

Maybe we can ask Sayaka to let them know (or more like, check whether she's already done so :V ).

OMFG, I somehow only just noticed the Hisaomi's diary entry in index. What the actual fuck o_O:o

That was an incredibly unpleasant surprise. I'm not sure how I missed that. Holy shit.

On another slightly less horrifying note, you guys have any theories about the what the hell is going on with Sayaka mysteriously dying in Oriko's vision around the period of time when the soul stealing serial killer shows up? It appears that Rionna killed her, but what does that imply about the Feathers phenomenon?
I'm not sure whether it's better or worse than the previous bamboozle the Oriko manga makers had thrown our way.

But sure as hell still a reason why Oriko should be Kure, not Mikuni.
 
OMFG, I somehow only just noticed the Hisaomi's diary entry in index. What the actual fuck o_O:o

That was an incredibly unpleasant surprise. I'm not sure how I missed that. Holy shit.

On another slightly less horrifying note, you guys have any theories about the what the hell is going on with Sayaka mysteriously dying in Oriko's vision around the period of time when the soul stealing serial killer shows up? It appears that Rionna killed her, but what does that imply about the Feathers phenomenon?
Got a link for us mobile users to the diary entry?
 
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