Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I'd link the video but I'm not certain it's entirely appropriat.
*Embraces the creator*
I think this works, too?
Fixed.
Never understimate how fertile the soil of the ship fields is.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
I think this works, too?
Never understimate how fertile the soil of the ship fields is.
A lot of that going around lately.
On a less joking topic, why is the potentialbomb so important to keep from Homura? Madoka's potential would be increasing loop after loop, I get that, but she's been targeted by Kyubey from the first timeline. If Homura's objective is not letting Madoka contract then it isn't much of a difference how much potential Madoka has if she's always seeked by Kyubey.
Probably I'm missing part of the picture here.
Probably I'm missing part of the picture here.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
We don't know. You're right, it shouldn't be a huge issue, but Firn's made it clear OOC that it would be.
We've speculated a bit about possible causes, but we don't actually know the specifics. Maybe some bad shit happened to Homura last timeline that Madoka undid with her "fix everything" wish, and poking at the potentialbomb would undo that. Maybe Homura's just really, really irrational on the topic. But we don't know.
Lord Chungus
God of Nutella
- Location
- The Hague (it’s where all the cool people are)
IIRC, Homura freaks out because she thinks that instead of failing to make things better, she's actively making things worse. Take that with a grain of salt, as I can be rather goldfish-like in my memory, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Homura's been stomped down all her life. She is a human being without that all-important thing that is self worth.
She doesn't consider herself human, she can't consider herself worthy of Madoka.
Of course she wants to feel she's worth something, but she doesn't have any important experiences that would tell her so. Instead she's spent years bedridden at the mercy of others, and once she tried to do something by herself, she 'lost' her Soul and Walpurgisnacht blocked her every time.
So Homu does not have self worth.
What she's got is a mission to find her own self worth. She didn't Wish to revive Madoka, but to have a chance to protect Madoka instead. It is by protecting Madoka that Homura gets her own sense of self worth. But only if she succeeds.
The way I like to think about it is that Homura's borrowing that sense that she's worth something from the future in which she accomplishes that goal. If she wins, then that means she's worth something, and if she doesn't lose, that means she'll win at some point. So that self-worth is assured and valid for her to take upon herself.
Cue Potential Bomb. Introduce the fact that normal Madoka wasn't that important a target to Kyuubey, and that the whole reason why Kyuubey's been getting more and more insistent on targetting Madoka, the reason why Madoka's been in more and more danger, is Homura.
The longer she loops, the worse she affects Madoka. That "if she doesn't lose, that means she'll win at some point" only works if there is no counterbalancing force, if looping has no negative effect.
And yes, at some point, Madoka's Potential would be big enough that it wouldn't matter from a rational point of view, but not from an emotional point of view, to someone who's close enough to the verge of suicide to be Witch bait.
Everything we admire about Homura stems from the self-promise that she will win because she has theorically infinite chances of winning, that as the chances she's got approach infinite, her hope of success approaches 1. If you even fudge that one bit by, say, introducing an opposing factor, such that there is a cost to each loop, that they're not free, then that certainty is lost.
You can rationalize that she would still win if she kept going on eternally, but it becomes a higher complexity problem such that you can't instinctively say "yeah, it doesn't matter".
Even if you could, Homura has to deal with the fact that it's she herself that's being this source of trouble for Madoka. Even if she would feel content with saving one Madoka... she still would feel she was the one who caused so many Madokas to get targeted by Kyuubey, and die.
So, take away the certainty of victory that allows Homura to feel she's worth something, while turning it on its head so Homura feels her worth is a net negative.
The canon loop, once Homura's defeated by Walpurgisnacht again, she goes to turn the shield, thinks that she's just making things worse, and gives up and despairs.
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tl;Dr thread in recent week
I see rionna is gone temporarily because issues
is this gonna keep happening whenever the baddies come to town for now on? Rionna is bad but could be much much worse
...unless we are happily fine with kill orders for worse people then okay whatever.
I see rionna is gone temporarily because issues
is this gonna keep happening whenever the baddies come to town for now on? Rionna is bad but could be much much worse
...unless we are happily fine with kill orders for worse people then okay whatever.
- Location
- Illinois
Rionna's gone because she's an evil douche.
We don't kill people, unless we absolutely have to.
If someone worse shows up, we'll gem them too.
UmbraofChaos
Freedom Lets Go
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Well, having read the entire story thread over the last three days I have to say I'm pretty enamored with this quest. I hadn't even considered joining SV until I read this and it more or less occupied my mind for several hours after I finished. Sabrina is a real fascinating character, especially because of the way that the chatting here has been interwoven into her thought processes. Some of the most memorable I've had when reading this are when something completely awful enters her train of thought and she feels immediately disgusted with herself. It's a fascinating bit of character building and especially engrossing.
There are so many things that fill me with anxiety by osmosis as well. Keeping things from Mami, from Homura, and the impending force that is Walpurgisnacht. Seeing the shaky relationship with Mami come together was one of the most uplifting things I've read in a long time. The potential for healing is something that is all over the quest and what I feel at any rate is especially core to Sabrina. This is also why I love the problem Rionna raises. At best she's a mass of morally ambiguous scar tissue that fights by giving people lobotomies and puppeting what's left. At worst it's pretty much that with the people also trapped in their slave shells forever. She's also a jerk. Unless it goes down perfectly everyone won't come out of this happier for it all. We have her gem yes, but is that really a solution to be happy with? Will Rionna just stay trapped forever? I can't say if I'm particularly satistird with that, even taking into account everything she's done. But maybe it's something to accept that some things will stay broken like that whole mess with Akiko. I don't really know, but it's interesting and I like that!
Really with such dark and broody thoughts and the atmosphere in the last dozen or so pages having a good time sounds good. Kick it into low gear just for a moment.
As for more tangential thoughts, has what kind of witch Sabrina would make ever been said? I am greatly albeit a tad morbidly curious. I soak up bad ends and drama like a sponge.
There are so many things that fill me with anxiety by osmosis as well. Keeping things from Mami, from Homura, and the impending force that is Walpurgisnacht. Seeing the shaky relationship with Mami come together was one of the most uplifting things I've read in a long time. The potential for healing is something that is all over the quest and what I feel at any rate is especially core to Sabrina. This is also why I love the problem Rionna raises. At best she's a mass of morally ambiguous scar tissue that fights by giving people lobotomies and puppeting what's left. At worst it's pretty much that with the people also trapped in their slave shells forever. She's also a jerk. Unless it goes down perfectly everyone won't come out of this happier for it all. We have her gem yes, but is that really a solution to be happy with? Will Rionna just stay trapped forever? I can't say if I'm particularly satistird with that, even taking into account everything she's done. But maybe it's something to accept that some things will stay broken like that whole mess with Akiko. I don't really know, but it's interesting and I like that!
Really with such dark and broody thoughts and the atmosphere in the last dozen or so pages having a good time sounds good. Kick it into low gear just for a moment.
As for more tangential thoughts, has what kind of witch Sabrina would make ever been said? I am greatly albeit a tad morbidly curious. I soak up bad ends and drama like a sponge.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Welcome!
It's nice to see someone's thoughts after getting caught up.
Only have the Witch's name to go on, and theories about maybe it being Feathers itself, and such.
Gadjo
Doka
The gm has said dedolere is an ontological threat. Either because of Sabrina's weird potential, or because of some part of our situation, we're not sure.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Sorry, no:
Rionna isn't morally ambiguous. She's a serial murderer/mass murderer who enslaves people, enjoys doing so, and has absolutely no level of remorse, whose wish was to be able to eternally torment someone and uses that power on countless others. The only "moral ambiguity" is that she's not a cardboard cutout of a character who does evil for the sake of doing evil.
- Location
- Illinois
And then he had an incubator as a portrait.
You know, it strikes me -- it's really infuriating that the answers to these questions don't really come up in the story itself, because it means that they have to be answered over and over, and that sometimes people on one end of an argument take them for granted while people on the other side take *exactly the opposite* to be what's being argued.
We really need an FAQ, tbh...
So, absolutely not is the answer. But she might well remain a gem for the duration of the *quest*, which is supposed to end after WPN. The entire point of gemming people is that we can try to rehabilitate them at some later time. We simply don't have the resources for it right now.
Likewise, Akiko hopefully won't stay broken. Last we saw her there were stirrings of a potential way to help with that.
*Sighs*
I wish... I wish people would think better of Sabrina. Given time and resources she will see that what can be done will be done for everyone it can be done for. She's had *weeks* so far.
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Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
- Location
- Brazil
Hello, guys, I have a question is the plan to deal with Rionna to jail her in Fukushima forever? Because I can totally see Kyubey doing the Ono thingy in international scale, using Rionna as a example for foreigner megucas who don't bow down and obey Sabrina(twisting words I know)
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
We need to get some appropriate mental health professionals for Anri and Riona ASAP.
- Location
- Illinois
That's an awfully toxic way of putting things a few minutes after much the same questions were asked and answered. Again, I really wish people would think better of Sabrina.
And then he had an incubator as a portrait.
You know, it strikes me -- it's really infuriating that the answers to these questions don't really come up in the story itself, because it means that they have to be answered over and over, and that sometimes people on one end of an argument take them for granted while people on the other side take *exactly the opposite* to be what's being argued.
We really need an FAQ, tbh...
So, absolutely not is the answer. But she might well remain a gem for the duration of the *quest*, which is supposed to end after WPN. The entire point of gemming people is that we can try to rehabilitate them at some later time. We simply don't have the resources for it right now.
Likewise, Akiko hopefully won't stay broken. Last we saw her there were stirrings of a potential way to help with that.
*Sighs*
I wish... I wish people would think better of Sabrina. Given time and resources she will see that what can be done will be done for everyone it can be done for. She's had *weeks* so far.
Loktarogar
The Apex of Cuddling
- Location
- Brazil
Sorry just finished reading the story-thread next time I will read the discussion first.
Lord Chungus
God of Nutella
- Location
- The Hague (it’s where all the cool people are)
Yeah, that happens a lot. Anyway, welcome to the thread
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Skimming the last ten pages of discussion is neither difficult nor time-consuming. Especially when you're about to ask a question that's simple enough that you could reasonably expect it to have already been asked and is likely to be contentious, as could be expected of anything like "do we really need to do something about the murderer-slaver-torturer?".
Appletank
Acquire Cheese
we have theories that we are a reformed walpurgis, Madoka's witch, and even THE witch af despair. Some discussion on the last one is in my signature.
look for "Firn is a precog hoebag..."
Firn is going to Brinapilot the plan and carrying through of what to do with Riona; that's so the playerbase doesn't have to deal with her again.
And Kyubey... I think I can safely presume he's going to twist the truth about our meeting with Riona no matter what would have happened: the only thing we can do is getting a good reputation faster than Kyubey can smudge it (again, defying the "villains act, heroes react" saying).
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Nice to see ya, fresh meat! It's great to see new readers participating!
Those are outstanding character moments, I'll agree - and they come out of some of the more vitriolic parts of thread arguments. That sort of thing is why I'm hopeful that Firn will eventually be able to turn this whole incident around, and make something compelling out of it.
For now we need a breather, though - both in and out of character.
I really like how the relationship with Mami developed slowly and naturally - and how the issues with it aren't glossed over or ignored.
Mami's still shaky, but I'm hopeful that Sabrina will keep doing right by her.
Rionna's definitely a challenge to Sabrina's "everything (and everyone) can be fixed" philosophy, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet. Still, with the current outlook, it seems like any improvement to her demenour will only happen in the epilogue.
Dedolere is apparently really scary - on par with Ultimate Kriemheld Gretchen or with Akuma Homura.
It's been theorized by some that she basically is UKG - through one means or another, just like Madokami's witch, she absorbs all the grief of every witch that ever did, will, or could exist into herself. (And after all, UKG has white hair and blue eyes...)
Once again, welcome to the thread!
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Would you believe I didn't even use to ship MamixBrina for the longest time?
At some point the ship just managed to drag me along.
