- Location
- Illinois
I tend to agree with you, the issue is simply that that particular situation, with it all being on the same page within minutes is... Frustrating.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
I tend to agree with you, the issue is simply that that particular situation, with it all being on the same page within minutes is... Frustrating.
UmbraofChaos
Freedom Lets Go
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I apologize. I didn't mean to say that she would trap them until the end of time or some such and that would be that.. It's more the general problem of how to deal with the rehabilitation of these magical girls, because it's undoubtedly a concern. The extent to which they can be helped and what kind of timeline we're looking at and the anxiety of the future for what if you just can't get through are things I find real interesting.
I am aware of what she's done. The point that I really wanted to make was even with the most rose tinted, optimistic, all loving look on the situation she's done awful things. It wasn't meant to be a justification or acceptance of her behavior and I'm sorry if it came across that way. More or less my point was she's at best a contentious challenge to how Sabrina has been functioning so far and the conflict that comes from it is intriguing.
It didn't really work out that way in practice, though. Hence why everyone is just about sick of talking about or dealing with her.
Now that I think of it, @Firnagzen if the next vote is still a point when Sabrina can decide something about Riona, can you please add the vote and explicitly lock it? Something like:
[Χ] Send Rionnnnnna into the Maximum Security prison inside Dedolere's Barrier (LOCKED)
(That's a capital Chi, shouldn't count as a vote)
So, please: can we drop it? Let's talk about other things, what to do with Kyouko, hugging Mami, going into the IRCs, SCIENCE!!!, anything else.
Welcome to the thread*.
*I meant that unironically, and sorry if it sounds patronizing after the rest of the post
[Χ] Send Rionnnnnna into the Maximum Security prison inside Dedolere's Barrier (LOCKED)
(That's a capital Chi, shouldn't count as a vote)
Apart from that (which is great), I like to see their relationship as a departure from "Sabrina as the mentality of the thread" and more of "Sabrina as her own character".
You only read the story-only thread so you missed the full exent of the drama: it's at the point the thread (and thus Sabrina) is just burnt out of talking about Riona because it just wasn't fun anymore. Riona's biggest threat isn't to Sabrina and her ideals but to the PMAS quest as a game whose main objective is for everyone, players and QM, to have fun.
So, please: can we drop it? Let's talk about other things, what to do with Kyouko, hugging Mami, going into the IRCs, SCIENCE!!!, anything else.
Welcome to the thread*.
*I meant that unironically, and sorry if it sounds patronizing after the rest of the post
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NitroFumetsu
Blaze of Glory
Spoony was right. Do NOT present your players with the Prisoner's Dillemma. 9 times out of 10 the group IRL will fracture over it and the game will go with it.
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
Lurk harder and smarter. All of these official announcements are made by Firn.
Just search for the posts by Firn if you have any questions, people.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
What if a person following story only has a doubt and wants to quickly pop up to ask? I don't think they should be expected to go lurk and search for specific posts; the option to just ask and get an answer from a helpful participant should remain open.
If there are supposed to be topics that should be avoided for the good of the thread, there should be an easily available FAQ, as was commented, not a call to go lurk. :/
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Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
I'm gonna have to agree to disagree with you.
Unless you disagree to agree to disagree with me.
Then we'll have a problem.
Gadjo
Doka
This... wasn't the prisoner's dilemma though? At all?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
- Location
- Earth, probably.
- Pronouns
- None/Any
Maybe an FAQ would be of some use, just so that we don't need to dredge up topics best left un-dredged.
UmbraofChaos
Freedom Lets Go
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Honestly, all the talk about what has happened really makes me want to try and read the whole 5852 pages of this thread too. It seems like despite whatever drama has happened it's been a real fun game overall for the players and QM alike. On the other hand, it took me a few days to just ready the 27 pages of IC posts. I might die before I finish reading it.
Dragontrapper
Homeless Draconis
- Location
- A Tower in the middle of nowhere
UmbraofChaos
Freedom Lets Go
- Pronouns
- They/Them
What's the point of making claims if you aren't melodramatic about it!Oh, don't be dramatic - it take you 2, 2.5 years tops.
blast flame
How far will we go if it means lighting the way?
- Location
- Perth, Australia
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Oh, don't be dramatic - it take you 2, 2.5 years tops.
I accomplished it in about 6-8 months! Granted there were 900 or so fewer pages when I started.
Lord Chungus
God of Nutella
- Location
- The Hague (it’s where all the cool people are)
I'm running a PMAS spin-off quest, so I decided that it would be a good idea to read the 4000 or so pages of talk I ducked out of reading when I was catching up the first time.
Hooo boy.
HooooOOOOOOOO BOY!
There's some good stuff in there, but do you know how many arguments there are over stupid things? Too many! Lots of science, debating what science to do, I'm just finishing reading over a five-page argument over whether to use an Italian name for Brina's attack or a German one.
AAAAAAAARGH!
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
*Dramatically missing the point*
Obviously, we need to use Latin.
It's the language of our Witch.
I mean, Madoka Magica uses German, because Madoka's Witch Name is partly German.
Mami uses Italian attack names, and her Witch name is Italian.
So Sabrina should use Latin. It's a no-brainer, really.
- Location
- Illinois
I...
There's been so, so much grief over this, you have no idea.
And, honestly? I blame myself for so, so much of it. Almost all of it, even.
If I'd just been all here, mentally, the necessary arguments were right there in front of my face. All I had to do was make them. That the attitude Rionna displayed was simply unacceptable, as it made her a clear and imminent threat to others. We could have gemmed her four or five posts into her existence and that would have been that. I even started to make them at one point. But my fucked-up brain just didn't follow through.
And the end result of it all, honestly, has been that a number of people I consider friends and respect deeply have been so, so hurt. Almost nobody has a clear enough idea of what this has done -- to Firnagzen, and to virtually every poster here who isn't, well, as new as you are.
I'm not planning to open the goddamn floodgate on my archive of Mami stuff three IC days early because I think it's good timing.
I'm planning to do that because I've come to feel that we're currently a danger to ourselves.
I'm not going to be pushing to have more of our friends around us only because I think it's good for Sabrina's mentality.
I'm also going to be doing that because I think that they as characters allow Firn to better anchor the plot and the flow of discussion.
I...
I want to highlight something from the most recent chapter.
This is both extremely abnormal and incredibly dangerous.
There is currently a single point of failure for everything we hope to achieve. All of it. Mami's wellbeing, a resolution to the loop, dewitching, degriefing, absolutely all of it. That point of failure is Sabrina. She's supposed to be the pillar of strength, because Mitakihara -- and the world, in fact -- desperately need that pillar. As more magical girls contract into a setting where the old, horrific system doesn't exist, things will stabilize, but the truth of the matter is that for the moment everywhere we look everyone except us is going to have deep mental issues. Exposing teenagers to this sort of system creates trauma, plain and simple.
We have two advantages, folks: we've got grief powers and we're mentally stable.
We cannot afford to lose that stability. We cannot afford to push ourselves to exhaustion time and time again, because we will burn out. IC if not OOC. Firn's warned us repeatedly against overreaching, and I will tell you now: we can overreach in this manner.
To be honest, in scenarios where we lack metaknowledge we need to be quicker to judge. The very first question for Rionna should have been, "If you didn't have to harm other magical girls to avoid dying or witching out, would you still do it?" And when her answer was yes, the second question should been "Why?" And following her response to that, being what it was, that she harmed others because she could and meant to continue doing so, we should have gemmed her then and there.
We cannot as a thread afford another Rionna situation. We cannot.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We got into this situation because Firn wanted us to (though I'm sure he underestimated how bad it'd get). Rionna's entire existence and purpose was to be a morality debate, and I'm pretty sure everyone is familiar with how SB/SV handles morality debates. This wasn't helped by WoG that there was greyness in the situation when he meant her to be morally black. This lead some people (including me) to look at her too forgivingly and treat her as someone to be "fixed" instead of something to be taken down. This wasn't helped by us having no indication Rionna would be Evil aside from circumstantial stuff like Sayaka dying around the time when Rionna comes. Had we known Rionna was Not Good like we do about the Iowa group, there'd have been less flying crap piles about what to do with her. While the players definitely drove the majority of the shitshow, Firn was ultimately in control and mishandled the affair (for understandable reasons given he was busy IRL).
Hopefully everyone has learned from this clusterfuck and I trust Firn to make sticking through this worthwhile.
Also you really shouldn't blame yourself for not immediately going for the "End It" option. Signals were unclear and people like me trying to see any sort of light in Rionna wasn't helping things.
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UmbraofChaos
Freedom Lets Go
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Well, to be entirely fair here for how well Sabrina holds it together it's remarkable that she hasn't collapsed in on herself from these situations. The general vibe that I personally was starting to get was kinda like drowning. Not something very fast but a tad inexorable and increasingly overwhelming in its own way. Maybe more like drowning in syrup. There never seems to be quite enough time as Sabrina goes around exercising her capacity as a miracle worker but the work never seems to get appreciably lower. Admittedly while it's come up a few times it's not quite to the extent that I sometimes consider it, so there's probably a fair bit of projection going on here. Kind of like second hand embarrassment sometimes I just think of all the things that are going on, and that need to be done later, and that can't be done just yet in the quest and just wow. I'm tired feels a bit like an understatement in the face of that. Although I will say that having healthy and not exploding relationships unlike most magical girls is really helpful in working out these kinds of problems.
The end of this splurging on why this quest is unbelievably cathartic is that SoL is beautiful and we need more of it. Also that it would probably be great for Sabrina to get like a month's vacation but that ain't happening anytime soon.
Okay, wait, calm down. A lot of what you say is true, but I think your're going overboard with the stressing out and self-flagellation.
It think it's important that we remember that we got a mostly good outcome from all this, for the most part. Magical Girl Punisher-chan has been defeated. She's been stopped and won't be ripping out souls and murdering people anymore. We didn't even need to kill her. No one else was actually hurt. Our friends are worried about Sabrina, but they're fine and will be fine. Sabrina herself is emotionally not completely all right at the moment, but our buddies stepped right in to support her, so she'll be fine too. The thread is stressed as fuck, but there wasn't any irreversible damage for the most part. We're all adults here. Or nearing adulthood in any case, probably.
We fucked up. But no permanent harm was done that isn't fixable or recoverable. Heck, most us realized that mistakes were made and got a reality check. I actually count that as somewhat of a good thing, because that means this didn't happen in a situation where we anyone else could have actually really gotten seriously hurt.
Study this. Learn from it. Move on. Do better. As long as learn from this and do better, everything will be fine.
Don't go panicking or getting into depressive spirals. Because that just leaks into Sabrina who already isn't doing completely okay right now.
And don't be too hard on yourself. It's true you could have done better. But that goes for everyone here. There are a lot of participants to this thread, and even more watchers. Not many were doing as well as you and most were quite a bit worse. From what I saw, you were one of the MVPS of this sorry mess. IMHO, you were doing a pretty good job giving calm, convincing arguments and herding these crazy cats into a somewhat productive direction. I mean what was I fucking doing, in comparison? Basically nothing.
I'm really sorry if I'm overstepping, sounding condescending, or if my rambling is completely wrong and makes no sense. But you're kind of worrying me a bit, and I respectfully disagree with your self-blame
Dantalion
Insight: 366
- Location
- A Guest Room at the Brass Embassy, dying of Frenzy
- Pronouns
- Any
Something to remember now is that Nadia's information is only slightly more trustworthy than the Incubator's. While she isn't going to specifically try to mislead us with what she told / will tell us, she does not have anywhere near complete enough info to rely solely on.
Going to need to go back over what she gave us and see what other interpretations can come from it.
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
The end result is.... more like life as we know it. At this point Sabrina has a few other sources of biased, incomplete information. Which girl knows what, when, and why - Our new mini-game is to navigate using that mechanic? We are going to need to bring more of our skills to the table.
Thus, why generally not leaking any word of this victory is something I can follow, until we are resolved to broadcast what we will. Onmur had some plans, correct? Who else?
Kyuubey is always going to play the telephone game to it's own advantage. Our group may not even be the girls who pay the price. Let us think a few moves ahead.