Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
Onmur said:
While you're here... did you develop any thoughts on Sayaka and copying Riona?

My only take right now would be something like:

[] If Riona's successfully detained, don't drop timestop.
-[] Pull Sayaka aside. Make sure to not be overheard. Ask whether she decided whether to learn the secret or not.
--[] Do your best to not pressure her.
-[] If she says yes, carefully explain the Witchbomb, with emphasis on the fact you're fixing it, and that Sayaka can help.
--[] Ask Sayaka to copy Riona (while Riona's still Anti-Magicked).
---[] If that works, ask her to try and take control of the shades for future reviving.

It's kind of... content for more than an update on its own? I guess that doesn't matter, but it's such a sensitive topic, it feels bad to not dedicate an update to Sayaka's Witchbombing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
... oh :eek:

I realized Sayaka may want be proactive in wanting to copy Riona's power, so the vote should account for that.

[ ] If Sayaka seems to want to copy Riona's power, ...
 
Onmur said:
Given Riona's reclusiveness, I don't think this is likely to be a problem, and even, pretending she's staying away from Edinburgh for so long would be suspicious in its own right...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I was thinking along the lines of mundane investigation, since immigration expects her to leave Japan at some point. Beside the point for immediate action though, I'll bring this up later I think.

[X] Onmur
 
Spectral Waltz said:
I'd say that, that or maybe do a break for voting to talk with Sayaka about the possibility of it after we've secured Rionna?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hmmm... There's a chance Sayaka might try to copy Riona during the fight.

... We could easily warn her to not do that because Soulguca is perhaps the most dangerous target to try and copy ever.

And after Riona's detained, we can just act first, before Sayaka can even think of copying? I think that works, then.

Filraen said:
Er.. true, I sort-of panicked there *sweat drop*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I also don't want it to be suspicious. :p But I think this works.


Added:

[X] Pretend. Visibly restrain yourself. Agree verbally to leave her alone, but keep talking.
[X] At the same time, signal Mami to tag you and Homura and have Homura activate her magic.
-[X] If Riona is somehow included in timestop:
--[X] Act first: Detain Riona with Grief Fog, take the Gem, threaten to break it.
--[X] If anything goes wrong, no holds barred. Purée her. Save the Gem unless Riona still tries to attack.
--[X] Otherwise, continue.

[X] In timestop:
-[X] Consult Mami on the danger of tripping Riona's shades. Explain briefly. Employ Grief hax if needed.
-[X] Leave, convene with Mami and Homura.
--[X] Make sure Riona remains time-stoped without fail.
--[X] Things went wrong, get Sayaka and go to Oriko's. Insist if needed.
--[X] Get Kirika to enchant everything you might need to antimagic Riona, Gem and body.
--[X] Explain eveything. Avoid Social Bombs.
-[X] Plan (listen to opinions):
--[X] Simultaneous:
---[X] Blast Riona and her surrounding area with Anti Magic (Sayaka and Kirika).
---[X] Use Anti Magic restraints on Riona and her Gem.
---[X] Restrain Riona completely.
--[X] Mami and Homura know their roles better than you do.
--[X] Warn Sayaka to not try copying Riona (danger of copying Soulguca).
-[X] Enact plan.

[X] If Riona's successfully detained, don't drop timestop.
-[X] Pull Sayaka aside. Make sure to not be overheard. Ask whether she decided to learn the secret or not.
--[X] Do your best to not pressure her.
-[X] If she says yes, carefully explain the Witchbomb, with emphasis on the fact you're fixing it, and that Sayaka can help.
--[X] Ask Sayaka to copy Riona (while Riona's still Anti-Magicked).
---[X] If that works, ask her to try and take control of the shades for future reviving.
---[X] If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
 
Last edited:
I don't think that Nadia is going to be as willing as people think to do propaganda for us. Her job relies on her being seen as a purely neutral arbiter. If people found out that she distorted the truth in any way, she's history.

It occurs to me that a fair trial requires that everyone be witchbombed. Otherwise, no one can really comprehend how immensely evil false grief benders can be. We could say that they did really really really horrible things to people, but it won't really register. Without that, jurors aren't going to be able to judge her fairly, since they won't know the full story of WHY she did the things she did.
Therefore, I propose we do the hastily done vote between our group and whoever else we can pull in as we're planning to do. Then, once Riona's in custody, we make a lie detector, wake her up(with HEAVY antimagic restraints), and give her a full trial with a jury of witchbombed peers. Homura, Sayaka if she's bombed, Nadia, Yuki, and anyone else we can find. We then let her speak for herself if she wants to, at her trial, since this is probably the only way to get information out of her that isn't like pulling teeth.


[X] Onmur

Mostly because it deals with some of the short term issues that Godwinson's doesn't.
 
Last edited:
Onmur said:
[ ] If Riona's successfully detained, don't drop timestop.
-[ ] Pull Sayaka aside. Make sure to not be overheard. Ask whether she decided to learn the secret or not.
--[ ] Do your best to not pressure her.
-[ ] If she says yes, carefully explain the Witchbomb, with emphasis on the fact you're fixing it, and that Sayaka can help.
--[ ] Ask Sayaka to copy Riona (while Riona's still Anti-Magicked).
---[ ] If that works, ask her to try and take control of the shades for future reviving.
---[ ] If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh, right I was going to comment on that.

...

I'd prefer a different approach: now that we warned Sayaka against copying Riona we should explain why did that. That way it doesn't seem like pressuring her into accepting*.


[ ] After Riona's successfully detained, don't drop timestop.
-[ ] Pull Sayaka aside. Make sure to not be overheard. Explain that copying Riona's power may lead to her learning the secret they talked earlier, and you'd prefer explaint it yourself instead of Sayaka accidentally discovering it.
--[ ] If she chooses to learn it now, carefully explain the Witchbomb, with emphasis on the fact you're fixing it, and that Sayaka can help.
--[ ] Ask Sayaka to copy Riona (while Riona's still Anti-Magicked).

Why are we keeping the shades anyway? We know there's an afterlife in the PMMM setting anyway

*which somes to the realization, at least for me, that it's just a matter of time Sayaka copies another power related to the soul and she'd discover the Witchbomb on her own... maybe it's better just to tell her
 
Onmur said:
Hmmm... There's a chance Sayaka might try to copy Riona during the fight.

... We could easily warn her to not do that because Soulguca is perhaps the most dangerous target to try and copy ever.

And after Riona's detained, we can just act first, before Sayaka can even think of copying? I think that works, then.


I also don't want it to be suspicious. :p But I think this works.


Added:

[X] Pretend. Visibly restrain yourself. Agree verbally to leave her alone, but keep talking.
[X] At the same time, signal Mami to tag you and Homura and have Homura activate her magic.
-[X] If Riona is somehow included in timestop:
--[X] Act first: Detain Riona with Grief Fog, take the Gem, threaten to break it.
--[X] If anything goes wrong, no holds barred. Purée her. Save the Gem unless Riona still tries to attack.
--[X] Otherwise, continue.

[X] In timestop:
-[X] Consult Mami on the danger of tripping Riona's shades. Explain briefly. Employ Grief hax if needed.
-[X] Leave, convene with Mami and Homura.
--[X] Make sure Riona remains time-stoped without fail.
--[X] Things went wrong, get Sayaka and go to Oriko's. Insist if needed.
--[X] Get Kirika to enchant everything you might need to antimagic Riona, Gem and body.
--[X] Explain eveything. Avoid Social Bombs.
-[X] Plan (listen to opinions):
--[X] Simultaneous:
---[X] Blast Riona and her surrounding area with Anti Magic (Sayaka and Kirika).
---[X] Use Anti Magic restraints on Riona and her Gem.
---[X] Restrain Riona completely.
--[X] Mami and Homura know their roles better than you do.
--[X] Warn Sayaka to not try copying Riona (danger of copying Soulguca).
-[X] Enact plan.

[X] If Riona's successfully detained, don't drop timestop.
-[X] Pull Sayaka aside. Make sure to not be overheard. Ask whether she decided to learn the secret or not.
--[X] Do your best to not pressure her.
-[X] If she says yes, carefully explain the Witchbomb, with emphasis on the fact you're fixing it, and that Sayaka can help.
--[X] Ask Sayaka to copy Riona (while Riona's still Anti-Magicked).
---[X] If that works, ask her to try and take control of the shades for future reviving.
---[X] If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If Mami tries to tag us before Homura activates time stop, Rionna might notice.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
If Mami tries to tag us before Homura activates time stop, Rionna might notice.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Wait, shit. I know it's a hypothesis, but if Riona somehow manages to get included in timestop, then reversing order would mean we get timestopped while Rions doesn't.

... I wish we had experimented more on this. Eg, if we knew we could be pulled into timestop through Grief contact, that'd be much safer.
 
Trying to add witchbombing Sayaka so she can try to copy Rionna's power, which Firn basically confirmed to be impossible, just seems like extreme greed, given how dangerous this update is going to be, and how much opportunity there is for things to fall apart.

Onmur said:
Wait, shit. I know it's a hypothesis, but if Riona somehow manages to get included in timestop, then reversing order would mean we get timestopped while Rions doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, that is one of the worst failure modes attacking Rionna right now has.
 
Last edited:
So just
Onmur said:
Wait, shit. I know it's a hypothesis, but if Riona somehow manages to get included in timestop, then reversing order would mean we get timestopped while Rions doesn't.

... I wish we had experimented more on this. Eg, if we knew we could be pulled into timestop through Grief contact, that'd be much safer.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
so just drop the privacy sphere, then ask Homura to use her power to come meet with us Immediately. It's not immediately obvious that it's an attack even if Rionna overhears it, and it avoids accidentally pulling Rionna into the time stop, which is a worst case scenario.

Or we just use Grief to give all the instructions to Mami, but don't have them bring Sabrina into the time stop until they hit Rionna with anti magic.
 
Regarding Sayaka, there is zero reason we can't have her copy it and then very pointedly suggest she *not* make use of it for the foreseeable future. After telling her about Rionna, I would expect she would be emphatically okay with that.

That's the kind of non-problem we tend to think too much about.

As is mundane immigration.

As for the idea that Rionna might get pulled into timestop without us... just have Sayaka AM everything from inside timestop before moving closer?
 
Last edited:
Onmur said:
Should we decide ourselves whether Riona would be happier Gemmed or chained? No, not at all, that doesn't make sense. To start with, just about literally anyone would prefer to be conscious than not, unless they were in heavy pain, so wut?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You assumed two things in this paragraph that are not necessarily true.

1: that an answer Rionna would give us would reflect whether or not she would actually be happier.

2: that only physical pain can warrant a desire to not be concious.

The only thing her answer would reflect, I expect, would be her desire to potentially escape.

... I'm going to leave that stuff there. What I argued was honest from my point of view -- I have a very positive view of being unconcious. It doesn't involve suffering, and I don't expect Rionna to have any positive experiences during incarceration if and while concious based on her background, hence why I was asking for evidence to the contrary.
 
I just notice we have a witchbomb possibility. On one hand i'm glad we detected potential fallout but on another hand...

 
Kaizuki said:
Regarding Sayaka, there is zero reason we can't have her copy it and then very pointedly suggest she *not* make use of it for the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thought about it, don't know if she can actually do that. Once she has the power, if she can read Witch names, for example, she's gonna see some questionable things, even if she tries to put it away very fast. Risky.

CornyBones said:
Yes. Objects touched with our grief are brought into timestop. We had a sequence where we tested this with Homura, using rings. It was.....around the time that we fought the egg-Witch in the abandoned house.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We didn't actually do the testing. Left and the rings dissipated.



Kaizuki said:
1: that an answer Rionna would give us would reflect whether or not she would actually be happier.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
At that point, there's no arguing, if you can't even allow that.

Kaizuki said:
2: that only physical pain can warrant a desire to not be concious.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That was just an example. I believe the fact people don't like being in comas is obvious.
 
Is there any particular reason I've missed to insta-gem Rionna when we're already planning to anti-magic her? Isn't that disabling enough to see if it has some effect on her? It's not like tying her up would be hard after, either - Mami manages to easily do so to Homura, and that's without anti-magic. I'm just curious what her reaction will be if that does release all of her shades or, more interestingly, if a faceat of her personality is having power over others, how she reacts when that gets flipped on it's head.

No qualms about the actual act of insta-jumping her out of timestop though - if we're going to detain her, there's no reason to be anything less than instant about it, and there's no good reason to let her go for the day with the threats of Oriko or Sayaka getting killed by her still hanging in the air. Speaking of which, should Sayaka join us in taking care of her here, we need to make sure she doesn't get ahead of herself versus her just 'cause she's evil, or interrupting any other plans or anything like that.
 
Did somebody say SCIENCE!
I have an idea I want to try!
...but that'll have to wait, I guess.
So, do we have a way we can review the situation around Edinburgh?
I don't want deaths on our hands.
Edit: it doesn't have to be right now, I just want to know what's going on around there soon.
Edit:To clarify, I do want the information as soon as possible, I can just wait awhile.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top