Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
065tdsa said:
Collecting the soul gems of all magical girls you run into for the lulz?

We do not know everything magical girls do, but we know this things:

A)Rionna is bad at subtle, and doesn't care to be any better. So people know her powers, they know what she does with them.
B)People do not think of her as particularly dangerous in the 'will randomly kill magical girls' sense. She's actually allowed to travel through people's territories, they meet and talk to her, when someone had to describe her to us it was not as 'that crazy bitch who is totally going to come to kill you'.
C)There are magical girls who are far more indiscriminate, the actual monsters who kill everyone they run into who isn't in their group/family/their slaves or whatever dynamic they have.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is not reliable information.

It's been brought up IC that is is entirely possible Nadia didn't know about this. She visited Riona on her turf (and Nadia's a special one, she probably can get into places others can't, so we can't say Riona allows anyone in and out; even if she did, her infamy would keep people away) and, since she values her own life, she likely didn't push Riona in any way.

The fact we know all this shit about Riona is because she told it to us. Riona most likely expected to kill us (and Mami) by the time this was over, so giving us this information would not cause a leak. Nobody would know.

While there migth be meguca who kill for shit and giggles, though I don't know of any, that really does not sound worse than what Riona's doing. Sure, she picks her targets rather than choosing randomly; that just makes her a serial killer. And then she not only kills them, but also enslaves her Souls to be part of her own personal undead army? That sounds way worse than what you described, to me.

defenestrator said:
... Does this mean our brain damage saved us? :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We've been counting on our damage to save us from Soulguca all along!

And it actually worked. Praise!

\o/
 
Last edited:
Onmur said:
Sure, some people will excuse her actions, but that's why we should push the idea that Riona's was worse than they might have gave her credit for: I'm not certain she was a torturer, if anything, she seemed to be angsting over failing at torturing someone, but well, bad enough.

So for those people who'd turn the other way, we should let them know Riona's totally a monster. Use Riona as the face of those who are beyond redemption.

Going beyond this answer to you,

"OK she did save some lives" shouldn't enter the equation. If we're out to save everyone we can, we need a campaign which will allow us to do so.

I believe KB will spin the outcome of today, happenings against us, no matter what happens, so Riona's forcing our hand to stop hiding and reach out for the megucas in the world. While that's bad, it does allow us one thing, and that's using Riona as an image. Of what's wrong. If at all possible, we should turn Riona into a legend everyone knows, about how bad meguca can be, so we can be the ones to have dealt with that.

I'm gonna have to think of ways to convince Homura, Sayaka, and Oriko, to have Oriko run our PR. :thonk:


*Yuki. Yuuki is someone else. Two someone elses, I think.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We are expecting both the Soul Collecter Twins and the Iowans within the future. So perhaps she's not the best example of an evil pinnacle, but she's certainly the worst girl we've encountered yet.
 
Godwinson said:
It was directly mentioned at the start of the conversation with Rionna.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I fixed it, and by fixing it I mean I made a completely new related argument on the shortcomings of the Witch bomb as a memetic weapon if you don't know the magical girl in question.
Onmur said:
While there migth be meguca who kill for shit and giggles, though I don't know of any, that really does not sound worse than what Riona's doing. Sure, she picks her targets rather than choosing randomly; that just makes her a serial killer. And then she not only kills them, but also enslaves her Souls to be part of her own personal undead army? That sounds way worse than what you described, to me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I consider indiscriminate killing much worse for reasons that I thought should be obvious. I also do not consider 'kill and enslave ghost' to be inherently worse, morally, than just plain old kill.
 
Last edited:
Gadjo said:
Dude, the wider community deals with petty warlords and mass murderers all the time. The fact that we didn't just kill her will be pretty novel to most meguca. Also, seriously quit acting like there's a meguca INTERPOL because if there were we'd be acting through or in place of that organization.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm acting under the assumption that we *want* there to eventually exist a meguca INTERPOL, and our behavior here and elsewhere will help determine the behaviour and rulesets of this meguca INTERPOL.

What sort of magical girl do we want to attract as members and enforcers of this meguca INTERPOL, magical girls who admire our efficient takedowns of wrongdoers, or magical girls who admire our respect for procedure and the human rights of others, and how we've established a system of checks and balances, even when such procedure and such rights and such checks and balances become inconvenient to us? What sort of magical girl will be less likely to abuse the position she's given?

I want something like HeroCycle said. If we're supposed to take her down, say that she'll be given full legal rights, including a defense lawyer and judgment by a jury of her peers (and the like), the moment we have set up the system to do do. And that we'll start working on setting up such a system right away, not in the indefinite future.

Gadjo said:
What we're doing is actually right, and we know it for a fact. We'll deal with convincing other people of such later. Seriously, consider how messed up most meguca territories are- keeping a prisoner just to rehabilitate her is weird in this community. Both dangerous and too expensive for most people. There is no justice system to prove this to, other than ourselves. Stop trying to paint stopping a bad person to be on the same level as ignoring a bad person.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

No, actually. We know for a fact (via Word of God) that what *Riona* is doing is wrong, but that doesn't make it a "matter of fact" that what *we* are doing is right -- and certainly not any particular plan of action.

In real life, we've numerous times seen how 'stopping a bad person' (e.g. Saddam Hussein, David Koresh) can end up even worse than ignoring a bad person. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and our intentions are definitely very very good.

Onmur said:
It really shouldn't concern us. KB will find a way.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The fact that KB will find a way to slander us by twisting the truth if he wants to doesn't concern me, exactly because the truth can always be twisted. I'm more concerned by the fact that he won't need to twist the truth, that an independent neutral observer examining our actions will find them to be bad all without any needed twisting of the truth by a malicious Incubator.

Spectral Waltz said:
We cannot allow ourselves to be held back from doing the right thing by fears of political reprisal.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That sounds to me like a different way of saying "We alone in the whole world will be the arbiters of what the right thing is."

I'm not asking you to not do the right thing - the very opposite. I'm telling you that the right thing is to NOT act like we are the ones who get to decide what the right thing is. That our *own power* must be checked. What is the political/judicial system we are hoping to build here? One where we are simply benevolent dictators of the world, needing to justify our actions only to ourselves? Or a system of law, and of checks and balances that prevents abuse of power, even by ourselves?
 
Last edited:
Firnagzen's been pretty heavy-handedly implying that Nadia didn't know about what Rionna was up to, and gone so far as to say that the ambiguity about Rionna's intentions introduced through Nadia was a mistake on his part as the author.

I... don't think the magical girl world as a whole would look kindly on Rionna's actions, even if she was eliminating grief controllers that were themselves monstrous. I suppose we'll find out when we discuss things with Mami and Homura.

Speaking of PR damage control, one of the first people that we should inform about the Rionna situation is the Fukushima group. We do have a mutual defense pact, and when we set up imprisonment for Rionna, it'll almost certainly be with their assistance.
 
Last edited:
Aris Katsaris said:
I'm not asking you to not do the right thing - the very opposite. I'm telling you that the right thing is to NOT act like we are the ones who get to decide what the right thing is. That our *own power* must be checked. What is the political/judicial system we are hoping to build here? One where we are simply benevolent dictators of the world, needing to justify our actions only to ourselves? Or a system of law, and of checks and balances that prevents abuse of power, even by ourselves?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Honestly, I think there's a lot of merit to your concerns. I don't want Sabrina to become a dictator, even a benevolent one. But... setting up a system of law takes time and negotiations that we simply don't have the luxury of at the moment.

Is it right to leave Rionna to do as she wishes, and potentially murder more people, while we work on putting together a legal system? Isn't it more sensible to detain her, until such a time that such a system exists, even if that's, say, six months from now?

I will say that the "foreseeable future" part of @Godwinson 's vote is probably a bit too far, since it sort-of implies that Sabrina doesn't have any intentions of ever releasing Rionna, which is... a bit too far. I think Sabrina can 'foresee' eventually bringing Rionna out of the freezer, if only to pass trial, even if it'll take longer then the likely quest scope.
 
Last edited:
TFW you're a Magical Girl but using violence to resolve ideological differences is actually pretty sketchy.

I almost feel like we should call our friends and/or acquaintances and ask for advice.

Homura: You want us to what?
Sabrina: Vote on it.
Oriko: Sabrina, this is the worst idea you've had in hours. None of us share your morality, and hiding from difficult decisions by letting others decide is just cowardice.
Sabrina: It's all I know okay?!
 
Redshirt Army said:
Firnagzen's been pretty heavy-handedly implying that Nadia didn't know about what Rionna was up to, and gone so far as to say that the ambiguity about Rionna's intentions introduced through Nadia was a mistake on his part as the author.

I... don't think the magical girl world as a whole would look kindly on Rionna's actions, even if she was eliminating grief controllers that were themselves monstrous. I suppose we'll find out when we discuss things with Mami and Homura.

Speaking of PR damage control, one of the first people that we should inform about the Rionna situation is the Fukushima group. We do have a mutual defense pact, and when we set up imprisonment for Rionna, it'll almost certainly be with their assistance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm thinking we want to talk with Nadia first, then include... literally* everyone, basically, and have a conference.

*Not literally literally, but every friend and ally** we have should be informed, quickly.

**Maybe not Ono***.

***If she counts. :V

Aris Katsaris said:
The fact that KB will find a way to slander us by twisting the truth if he wants to doesn't concern me, exactly because the truth can always be twisted. I'm more concerned by the fact that he won't need to twist the truth, that an independent neutral observer examining our actions will find them to be bad all without any needed twisting of the truth by a malicious Incubator.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'd rather do the best we can and create ourselves good PR to oppose the bad PR KB will give us, rather than try to not do our best because it would give us bad PR.

065tdsa said:
I consider indiscriminate killing much worse for reasons that I thought should be obvious. I also do not consider 'kill and enslave ghost' to be inherently worse, morally, than just plain old kill.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, I consider 'kill and enslave soul to serve as a tool in the killing and imprisoning of other souls; to not only be killed, but also denied eternal rest; to possible be tortured for eternity or at least until the soulguca is killed' to be much worse than plain old killing, for reasons I think should be obvious.
 
Last edited:
Onmur said:
Well, I consider 'kill and enslave soul to serve as a tool in the killing and imprisoning of other souls; to not only be killed, but also denied eternal rest; to possible be tortured for eternity or at least until the soulguca is killed' to be much worse than plain old killing, for reasons I think should be obvious.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Rionna may have no evidence of the existence of an afterlife, in which case it's not worse than breaking a gem. Which is worse than just stealing a gem but far better than witching, and really equivalent to killing a normal person.
 
Last edited:
Aris Katsaris said:
That sounds to me like a different way of saying "We alone in the whole world will be the arbiters of what the right thing is."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That sounds like an unfairly cynical view. We are not trying to set a precedent here, mostly because this is a rather unique case. Rionna is dangerous in a way that we cannot reasonably be sure of mitigating and unrepentant to a degree that makes me quite certain she will not even consider changing her ways without being forced on some level.

And frankly, even if we were trying to set a precedent, I do not think that 'we take swift and decisive action against unrepentant mass-murderers when we find them' is a bad precedent to set in any way shape or form.

I refuse to play politics when lives are on the line, and you should do the same.
 
Rem said:
TFW you're a Magical Girl but using violence to resolve ideological differences is actually pretty sketchy.

I almost feel like we should call our friends and/or acquaintances and ask for advice.

Homura: You want us to what?
Sabrina: Vote on it.
Oriko: Sabrina, this is the worst idea you've had in hours. None of us share your morality, and hiding from difficult decisions by letting others decide is just cowardice.
Sabrina: It's all I know okay?!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"Look, I voted on the best course of action, and the best course of action, at least as chosen by majority, was to vote on the best course of action!"

"You voted? With who?"

"With myself."

"So... your decision to put this to a vote was unanimous."

"From a certain point of view."

*Headpats Sabrina*

065tdsa said:
Rionna may have no evidence of the existence of an afterlife, in which case it's not worse than breaking a gem. Which is worse than just stealing a gem but far better than witching, and really equivalent to killing a normal person.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm pretty sure 'dying and then not being allowed to actually finish dying but becoming a tool/slave so you can keep suffering and be used against others before finally ceasing to be' is way worse than 'dying and thus ceasing to be'.

It's like, isn't 'murder and slavery' clearly worse than 'murder'?
 
Redshirt Army said:
Is it right to leave Rionna to do as she wishes, and potentially murder more people, while we work on putting together a legal system? Isn't it more sensible to detain her, until such a time that such a system exists, even if that's, say, six months from now?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I can vote in favor of detaining her until such a system exists, definitely. (In the case of Oriko, for example, I actually thought Sabrina's attempts to reduce her house arrest as annoying me in the other direction -- I thought that Sabrina was being improperly lenient towards the Kures.)

It's the "gem Riona indefinitely until we can try to rehabilitate her" thing that I object to, because as a human being she has more rights than that. Even if she *always* remains beyond rehabilitation, she still has rights as a prisoner. Such rights are not *dependent* on her being redeemable.
 
Last edited:
Onmur said:
I'm pretty sure 'dying and then not being allowed to actually finish dying but becoming a tool/slave so you can keep suffering and be used against others before finally ceasing to be' is way worse than 'dying and thus ceasing to be'.

It's like, isn't 'murder and slavery' clearly worse than 'murder'?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Slavery is bad. If you assume souls are conscious, then it's worse. I do not because souls separated from their bodies are never conscious in PMMM. The Soul is the person, but without a brain to run on it doesn't do anything. Nobody we've ever gemmed has gone mad from the complete lack of stimulus after all.
 
Last edited:
Onmur said:
I'm pretty sure 'dying and then not being allowed to actually finish dying but becoming a tool/slave so you can keep suffering and be used against others before finally ceasing to be' is way worse than 'dying and thus ceasing to be'.

It's like, isn't 'murder and slavery' clearly worse than 'murder'?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There's an argument to be made that since the soul sticks around, what Rionna does is "just" slavery, not murder. I don't see what she does as significantly morally different from a mindcontroler going around and enslaving people.
 
065tdsa said:
Slavery is bad. If you assume souls are conscious, then it's worse. I do not because souls separated from their bodies are never conscious in PMMM. The Soul is the person, but without a brain to run on it doesn't do anything.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'd like to point out the the existence of cementeries and the fact that most people across the world have strong opinions about respecting the dead.

I don't think Sabrina would be OK, in the case for example, that Mami died, with someone taking Mami's soul and using it. I don't even have to clarify 'using it for evil'. I'm pretty certain Sabrina would be pretty pissed about someone using Mami's Soul as a tool, to put it lightly. Or Homura if someone tried the same with Madoka. Or any family of any or Riona's victims when Riona does this to her victims. Or just most people, really.

We clearly are not gonna see eye to eye on this.

Redshirt Army said:
There's an argument to be made that since the soul sticks around, what Rionna does is "just" slavery, not murder. I don't see what she does as significantly morally different from a mindcontroler going around and enslaving people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But once Riona dies, the souls die, too. So it's also murder.

(Trying to get Sayaka to copy Riona and then saving the shades is a reaaaaaally long shot, and one that only exists due to fortuitous opportunity. I don't think it should be taken into account here. Riona's intention is not to bring the shades back to life, ever.)
 
Redshirt Army said:
Honestly, I think there's a lot of merit to your concerns. I don't want Sabrina to become a dictator, even a benevolent one. But... setting up a system of law takes time and negotiations that we simply don't have the luxury of at the moment.

Is it right to leave Rionna to do as she wishes, and potentially murder more people, while we work on putting together a legal system? Isn't it more sensible to detain her, until such a time that such a system exists, even if that's, say, six months from now?

I will say that the "foreseeable future" part of @Godwinson 's vote is probably a bit too far, since it sort-of implies that Sabrina doesn't have any intentions of ever releasing Rionna, which is... a bit too far. I think Sabrina can 'foresee' eventually bringing Rionna out of the freezer, if only to pass trial, even if it'll take longer then the likely quest scope.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The "foreseeable future" is on the timespan of months to years, because it's until we're able to get a proper system set up for even attempting to rehabilitate girls like Rionna. If it was supposed to be "forever", then I'd have put down "forever". But it almost certainly is longer than the scope of the quest, which is measured in weeks.
 
Onmur said:
I'd like to point out the the existence of cementeries and the fact that most people across the world have strong opinions about respecting the dead.

I don't think Sabrina would be OK, in the case for example, that Mami died, with someone taking Mami's soul and using it. I don't even have to clarify 'using it for evil'. I'm pretty certain Sabrina would be pretty pissed about someone using Mami's Soul as a tool, to put it lightly. Or Homura if someone tried the same with Madoka. Or any family of any or Riona's victims when Riona does this to her victims. Or just most people, really.

We clearly are not gonna see eye to eye on this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
People's feelings being offended doesn't make something inherently wrong in a level that's substantially worse than normal murder. So no I guess we won't agree on this.
 
Hey all, been reading for a bit but just recently taking a look under the hood of Sabrina's internal deliberations.

Aside from any morality concerns, a choice that involves Rionna not flying home tomorrow morning should also include a "rebook her flight to after Walpurgisnacht" so we can delay any investigations that may result if Rionna were to no-show for a few OOC-years.
 
sya said:
Hey all, been reading for a bit but just recently taking a look under the hood of Sabrina's internal deliberations.

Aside from any morality concerns, a choice that involves Rionna not flying home tomorrow morning should also include a "rebook her flight to after Walpurgisnacht" so we can delay any investigations that may result if Rionna were to no-show for a few OOC-years.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Uh, that's a smart thought.

Given Riona's reclusiveness, I don't think this is likely to be a problem, and even, pretending she's staying away from Edinburgh for so long would be suspicious in its own right...

We're gonna need eyes on Edinburgh, at any rate. Somehow. :/
 
Took @Godwinson's vote and made a few changes:

- Sabrina consulting the plan with the others first. I want to gem Riona but I don't want to turn Sabrina into Judge, Jury and Executioner if possible.
- Added a part where we ask Sayaka for her choice about the Witchbomb, because Riona's power may make her realize about it.
- Put the failure state of the plan (degem with all needed force) as part of the plan so everyone knows.


[X] Use grief to communicate with Mami, have her call for Homura to timestop now. Give Rionna no time outside of the privacy field to send commands to her shades.
-[X] While doing this, continue speaking to Rionna so as to distract her from what you're doing. Get her attention focused entirely on you.
[X] Once in timestop, explain shade hazard then create a griefhax soul viewing effect (like the one used to observe Oriko's soul), and use it to avoid any lingering shades, then bring in Sayaka. Explain what you've learned about Rionna to them.
[X] Ask for everyone's opinions before proposing your plan.
-[X] Carefully, ask Sayaka if she's agreed to have learn the Witchbomb; the plan may have her learn it as a consecquence.
-[X] Share your personal opinion and propose your plan, ask for input and advice.
--[X] Plan: Have Sayaka or Kirika enchant an antimagic box that suppresses Rionna's magic (and not our group's). Timestop degem Rionna immediately into the box while blasting antimagic at her. If Sayaka chose to learn about the Witchbomb have her try to copy Rionna's magic, so that we can try to put the shades to rest, and have access to someone who can diagnose soul maladies on hand. Keep Rionna's body stored in Homura's shield or our hammerspace for the foreseeable future, until we've got enough other girls working with us, and stability, to try to rehabilitate her. If anything goes wrong during this plan, and Rionna looks to become combat capable again, immediately degem with all needed force.


-[] Carefully, ask Sayaka if she's agreed to have learn the Witchbomb; the plan may have her learn it as a consecquence.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not sure how to phrase, "Mami is right here and doesn't know about the Witchbomb either"
Adhoc vote count started by Filraen on Sep 12, 2018 at 4:04 PM, finished with 753 posts and 49 votes.
  • [X] Use grief to communicate with Mami, have her call for Homura to timestop now. Give Rionna no time outside of the privacy field to send commands to her shades.
    -[X] While doing this, continue speaking to Rionna so as to distract her from what you're doing. Get her attention focused entirely on you.
    [X] Once in timestop, explain shade hazard then create a griefhax soul viewing effect (like the one used to observe Oriko's soul), and use it to avoid any lingering shades, then bring in Sayaka. Explain what you've learned about Rionna to them. You're not going to let that stand.
    -[X] Explain plan to team, ask for input and advice.
    --[X] Plan: Have Sayaka or Kirika enchant an antimagic box that suppresses Rionna's magic (and not our group's). Timestop degem Rionna immediately into the box while blasting antimagic at her. Have Sayaka try to copy Rionna's magic, so that we can try to put the shades to rest, and have access to someone who can diagnose soul maladies on hand. Keep Rionna's body stored in Homura's shield or our hammerspace for the foreseeable future, until we've got enough other girls working with us, and stability, to try to rehabilitate her.
    [X] If anything goes wrong during this plan, and Rionna looks to become combat capable again, immediately degem with all needed force.
    [X] null
    [X] Act. Visibly restrain yourself. Agree verbally to leave her alone, but ask what she tried to do, first. Keep Riona unbalanced.
    [X] At the same time, signal Mami to tag you and Homura and have Homura activate her magic.
    -[X] If Riona is somehow included in timestop:
    --[X] Act first: Detain Riona with Grief Fog, take the Gem, threaten to break it.
    --[X] If anything goes wrong, no holds barred. Purée her. Save the Gem unless Riona still tries to attack.
    --[X] Otherwise, continue.
    [X] In timestop:
    -[X] Consult Mami on the danger of tripping Riona's shades. Explain briefly. Employ Grief hax if needed.
    -[X] Leave, convene with Mami and Homura.
    --[X] Make sure Riona remains time-stoped at all times.
    --[X] Things went wrong, get Sayaka and go to Oriko's. Insist if needed.
    --[X] Get Kirika to enchant everything you might need to antimagic Riona, Gem and body.*
    --[X] Explain eveything. Avoid Social Bombs.
    -[X] Plan (listen to opinions):
    --[X] Blast Riona and her surrounding area with Anti Magic (Sayaka and Kirika).
    --[X] Use Anti Magic restraints on Riona and her Gem.
    --[X] Restrain Riona completely.
    --[X] Mami and Homura know their roles better than you do.
    -[X] Enact plan.
    [X] Call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting.
    [X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
    [X] Discuss the situation in timestop with Homura, Mami, and Sayaka.
    [X] Kill her
    [x] Fine. Release the isolation field.
    [x] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
    [x] Given the circumstance, while it's regrettable, I agree it's best that you leave Mitakihara at your earliest convenience. Further I must insist that you don't create anymore shades in our city for any reason or I'm afraid conflict will be unavoidable. That said, wish her a good night.
    [x] Leave with Mami. You're done here.
    [x] When you're out a considerable range from Riona, contact Homura by phone for a timestop meeting. Update Homura and Mami of the situation. You weren't able to come to any agreement with Riona. Bring up Riona's intentions to leave in the morning and threat assessment. Avoid social bombs.
    [x] Ensure she doesn't leave this bubble under her own power, either by calling a meeting and then alpha-striking her or by alpha-striking her right now.
    [X] Shrug casually
    -[X] Alright. Wasn't planning on keeping you trapped anyways, anti-spy zone is for spies like QB, not you.
    --[X] Release the field, hug Mami, telepathically request time-stop.
    ---[X] Discuss.
    [X] Cleansing offer.
    [X] If that's so, then when and why did she go from seeking justice to judging people without knowing their crimes, unjustly taking other people's sisters? When did she give up, and start spending her time inflicting pain instead of trying to get her sister back?
    [X] Don't allow her to leave. Don't allow her to harm you. Don't allow her to harm herself. Use all means necessary.
    [X] Talk to her:
    -[X] There are/were options. Just as an example, she could have cut a deal with a potential, that she would fulfill their wish and some in exchange for them using their wish to bring back her sister. Somebody somewhere would go for it. Healing is a common enough wish, and not difficult to provide.
    -[X] Argue that the only thing she's accomplished with her current track has been to inflict pain on others and deny herself any hope of getting what she actually wants.
    -[X] Argue that the incubator tries to provoke isolation and infighting for a reason: less cooperation means less chance of people getting what they want, and thus better rates of witching. She could always punish the architect if she's not satisfied yet. A shot at that, you can provide.
    [X] Agree to end the meeting shortly.
    -[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
    [X] Release the Field.
    [X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
    -[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves, with plenty of time to spare.
    -[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
    -[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.
    [X] Go. Once you're away:
    -[X] Timestop meeting. Include Sayaka.
    -[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial.
    [X] Use grief to communicate with Mami, request immediate timestop. Give Rionna no time outside of the privacy field to send commands to her shades.
    -[X] While doing this, continue speaking to Rionna so as to distract her from what you're doing. Get her attention focused entirely on you.
    [X] Once in timestop, create a griefhax soul viewing effect (like the one used to observe Oriko's soul), and use it to avoid any lingering shades. Go bring in Sayaka. Explain what you've learned about Rionna to them. You're not going to let that stand.
    -[X] Explain plan to team, ask for input and advice.
    --[X] Plan: Obtain an antimagic box that suppresses Rionna's magic (and not ours) using Kirika's enchantment. Timestop degem Rionna immediately into the box, with an antimagic pulse from Sayaka active as you do. Have Sayaka try to copy Rionna's magic, so that we can try to put the shades to rest, and have access to someone who can diagnose soul maladies on hand. Keep Rionna's body in stasis in Homura's shield, until we've got enough other girls working with us, and stability, to try to rehabilitate her.
    [X] If anything goes wrong during this plan, and Rionna looks to become combat capable again, immediately degem with all needed force.
    [X] Your power is to enslave and torment other magical girls?
    - [X] If you continue on this path, it will lead to conflict between us in future.
    [X] But for now, you came to Mitakihara in peace, and we'll ask you to leave in peace.
    - [X] If we can get your word to leave Mitakihara in peace, we'll drop the shield and escort you to the airport.
    [X] add to TODO list: develop soul shielding, liberate Edinburgh.
    [X] Your power is to enslave and torment other magical girls?
    - [X] If you continue on this path, it will lead to conflict between us in future.
    [X] But for now, you came to Mitakihara in peace, and we'll ask you to leave in peace.
    - [X] If we can get your word to leave Mitakihara in peace, we'll drop the shield and escort you to the airport.
    [X] add to TODO list: develop soul shielding, liberate Edinburgh.
    [X] Use grief to communicate with Mami, have her call for Homura to timestop now. Give Rionna no time outside of the privacy field to send commands to her shades.
    -[X] While doing this, continue speaking to Rionna so as to distract her from what you're doing. Get her attention focused entirely on you.
    [X] Once in timestop, explain shade hazard then create a griefhax soul viewing effect (like the one used to observe Oriko's soul), and use it to avoid any lingering shades, then bring in Sayaka. Explain what you've learned about Rionna to them.
    [X] Ask for everyone's opinions before proposing your plan.
    -[X] Carefully, ask Sayaka if she's agreed to have learn the Witchbomb; the plan may have her learn it as a consecquence.
    -[X] Share your personal opinion and propose your plan, ask for input and advice.
    --[X] Plan: Have Sayaka or Kirika enchant an antimagic box that suppresses Rionna's magic (and not our group's). Timestop degem Rionna immediately into the box while blasting antimagic at her. If Sayaka chose to learn about the Witchbomb have her try to copy Rionna's magic, so that we can try to put the shades to rest, and have access to someone who can diagnose soul maladies on hand. Keep Rionna's body stored in Homura's shield or our hammerspace for the foreseeable future, until we've got enough other girls working with us, and stability, to try to rehabilitate her. If anything goes wrong during this plan, and Rionna looks to become combat capable again, immediately degem with all needed force.
Click to expand...

Adhoc vote count started by Filraen on Sep 12, 2018 at 4:21 PM, finished with 754 posts and 50 votes.
  • [X] Use grief to communicate with Mami, have her call for Homura to timestop now. Give Rionna no time outside of the privacy field to send commands to her shades.
    -[X] While doing this, continue speaking to Rionna so as to distract her from what you're doing. Get her attention focused entirely on you.
    [X] Once in timestop, explain shade hazard then create a griefhax soul viewing effect (like the one used to observe Oriko's soul), and use it to avoid any lingering shades, then bring in Sayaka. Explain what you've learned about Rionna to them. You're not going to let that stand.
    -[X] Explain plan to team, ask for input and advice.
    --[X] Plan: Have Sayaka or Kirika enchant an antimagic box that suppresses Rionna's magic (and not our group's). Timestop degem Rionna immediately into the box while blasting antimagic at her. Have Sayaka try to copy Rionna's magic, so that we can try to put the shades to rest, and have access to someone who can diagnose soul maladies on hand. Keep Rionna's body stored in Homura's shield or our hammerspace for the foreseeable future, until we've got enough other girls working with us, and stability, to try to rehabilitate her.
    [X] If anything goes wrong during this plan, and Rionna looks to become combat capable again, immediately degem with all needed force.
    [X] null
    [X] Act. Visibly restrain yourself. Agree verbally to leave her alone, but ask what she tried to do, first. Keep Riona unbalanced.
    [X] At the same time, signal Mami to tag you and Homura and have Homura activate her magic.
    -[X] If Riona is somehow included in timestop:
    --[X] Act first: Detain Riona with Grief Fog, take the Gem, threaten to break it.
    --[X] If anything goes wrong, no holds barred. Purée her. Save the Gem unless Riona still tries to attack.
    --[X] Otherwise, continue.
    [X] In timestop:
    -[X] Consult Mami on the danger of tripping Riona's shades. Explain briefly. Employ Grief hax if needed.
    -[X] Leave, convene with Mami and Homura.
    --[X] Make sure Riona remains time-stoped at all times.
    --[X] Things went wrong, get Sayaka and go to Oriko's. Insist if needed.
    --[X] Get Kirika to enchant everything you might need to antimagic Riona, Gem and body.*
    --[X] Explain eveything. Avoid Social Bombs.
    -[X] Plan (listen to opinions):
    --[X] Blast Riona and her surrounding area with Anti Magic (Sayaka and Kirika).
    --[X] Use Anti Magic restraints on Riona and her Gem.
    --[X] Restrain Riona completely.
    --[X] Mami and Homura know their roles better than you do.
    -[X] Enact plan.
    [X] Call Mami for an emergency timestop meeting.
    [X] On timestop, make sure the whole group (Homura, Mami and Sayaka) is in the meeting
    [X] Discuss the situation in timestop with Homura, Mami, and Sayaka.
    [X] Kill her
    [x] Fine. Release the isolation field.
    [x] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
    [x] Given the circumstance, while it's regrettable, I agree it's best that you leave Mitakihara at your earliest convenience. Further I must insist that you don't create anymore shades in our city for any reason or I'm afraid conflict will be unavoidable. That said, wish her a good night.
    [x] Leave with Mami. You're done here.
    [x] When you're out a considerable range from Riona, contact Homura by phone for a timestop meeting. Update Homura and Mami of the situation. You weren't able to come to any agreement with Riona. Bring up Riona's intentions to leave in the morning and threat assessment. Avoid social bombs.
    [x] Ensure she doesn't leave this bubble under her own power, either by calling a meeting and then alpha-striking her or by alpha-striking her right now.
    [X] Shrug casually
    -[X] Alright. Wasn't planning on keeping you trapped anyways, anti-spy zone is for spies like QB, not you.
    --[X] Release the field, hug Mami, telepathically request time-stop.
    ---[X] Discuss.
    [X] Cleansing offer.
    [X] If that's so, then when and why did she go from seeking justice to judging people without knowing their crimes, unjustly taking other people's sisters? When did she give up, and start spending her time inflicting pain instead of trying to get her sister back?
    [X] Don't allow her to leave. Don't allow her to harm you. Don't allow her to harm herself. Use all means necessary.
    [X] Talk to her:
    -[X] There are/were options. Just as an example, she could have cut a deal with a potential, that she would fulfill their wish and some in exchange for them using their wish to bring back her sister. Somebody somewhere would go for it. Healing is a common enough wish, and not difficult to provide.
    -[X] Argue that the only thing she's accomplished with her current track has been to inflict pain on others and deny herself any hope of getting what she actually wants.
    -[X] Argue that the incubator tries to provoke isolation and infighting for a reason: less cooperation means less chance of people getting what they want, and thus better rates of witching. She could always punish the architect if she's not satisfied yet. A shot at that, you can provide.
    [X] Agree to end the meeting shortly.
    -[X] Tell Riona you regret that she wasn't able to find what she was searching for here.
    [X] Release the Field.
    [X] Before letting her be, call her out and get concessions in exchange for her actions, without pissing her off too badly:
    -[X] Priority: Arrange a new meeting before she leaves, with plenty of time to spare.
    -[X] Priority: She does not attack nor use magic against anyone in Mitakihara.
    -[X] She'll answer all our questions next meeting.
    [X] Go. Once you're away:
    -[X] Timestop meeting. Include Sayaka.
    -[X] Explain everything. Avoid social bombs. Don't take sides, be impartial.
    [X] Use grief to communicate with Mami, request immediate timestop. Give Rionna no time outside of the privacy field to send commands to her shades.
    -[X] While doing this, continue speaking to Rionna so as to distract her from what you're doing. Get her attention focused entirely on you.
    [X] Once in timestop, create a griefhax soul viewing effect (like the one used to observe Oriko's soul), and use it to avoid any lingering shades. Go bring in Sayaka. Explain what you've learned about Rionna to them. You're not going to let that stand.
    -[X] Explain plan to team, ask for input and advice.
    --[X] Plan: Obtain an antimagic box that suppresses Rionna's magic (and not ours) using Kirika's enchantment. Timestop degem Rionna immediately into the box, with an antimagic pulse from Sayaka active as you do. Have Sayaka try to copy Rionna's magic, so that we can try to put the shades to rest, and have access to someone who can diagnose soul maladies on hand. Keep Rionna's body in stasis in Homura's shield, until we've got enough other girls working with us, and stability, to try to rehabilitate her.
    [X] If anything goes wrong during this plan, and Rionna looks to become combat capable again, immediately degem with all needed force.
    [X] Your power is to enslave and torment other magical girls?
    - [X] If you continue on this path, it will lead to conflict between us in future.
    [X] But for now, you came to Mitakihara in peace, and we'll ask you to leave in peace.
    - [X] If we can get your word to leave Mitakihara in peace, we'll drop the shield and escort you to the airport.
    [X] add to TODO list: develop soul shielding, liberate Edinburgh.
    [X] Your power is to enslave and torment other magical girls?
    - [X] If you continue on this path, it will lead to conflict between us in future.
    [X] But for now, you came to Mitakihara in peace, and we'll ask you to leave in peace.
    - [X] If we can get your word to leave Mitakihara in peace, we'll drop the shield and escort you to the airport.
    [X] add to TODO list: develop soul shielding, liberate Edinburgh.
    [X] Use grief to communicate with Mami, have her call for Homura to timestop now. Give Rionna no time outside of the privacy field to send commands to her shades.
    -[X] While doing this, continue speaking to Rionna so as to distract her from what you're doing. Get her attention focused entirely on you.
    [X] Once in timestop, explain shade hazard then create a griefhax soul viewing effect (like the one used to observe Oriko's soul), and use it to avoid any lingering shades, then bring in Sayaka. Explain what you've learned about Rionna to them.
    [X] Ask for everyone's opinions before proposing your plan.
    -[X] Carefully, ask Sayaka if she's agreed to have learn the Witchbomb; the plan may have her learn it as a consecquence.
    -[X] Share your personal opinion and propose your plan, ask for input and advice.
    --[X] Plan: Have Sayaka or Kirika enchant an antimagic box that suppresses Rionna's magic (and not our group's). Timestop degem Rionna immediately into the box while blasting antimagic at her. If Sayaka chose to learn about the Witchbomb have her try to copy Rionna's magic, so that we can try to put the shades to rest, and have access to someone who can diagnose soul maladies on hand. Keep Rionna's body stored in Homura's shield or our hammerspace for the foreseeable future, until we've got enough other girls working with us, and stability, to try to rehabilitate her. If anything goes wrong during this plan, and Rionna looks to become combat capable again, immediately degem with all needed force.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Filraen said:
Took Godwinson's vote and made a few changes:

- Sabrina consulting the plan with the others first. I want to gem Riona but I don't want to turn Sabrina into Judge, Jury and Executioner if possible.
- Added a part where we ask Sayaka for her choice about the Witchbomb, because Riona's power may make her realize about it.
- Put the failure state of the plan (degem with all needed force) as part of the plan so everyone knows.


[X] Use grief to communicate with Mami, have her call for Homura to timestop now. Give Rionna no time outside of the privacy field to send commands to her shades.
-[X] While doing this, continue speaking to Rionna so as to distract her from what you're doing. Get her attention focused entirely on you.
[X] Once in timestop, explain shade hazard then create a griefhax soul viewing effect (like the one used to observe Oriko's soul), and use it to avoid any lingering shades, then bring in Sayaka. Explain what you've learned about Rionna to them.
[X] Ask for everyone's opinions before proposing your plan.
-[X] Carefully, ask Sayaka if she's agreed to have learn the Witchbomb; the plan may have her learn it as a consecquence.
-[X] Share your personal opinion and propose your plan, ask for input and advice.
--[X] Plan: Have Sayaka or Kirika enchant an antimagic box that suppresses Rionna's magic (and not our group's). Timestop degem Rionna immediately into the box while blasting antimagic at her. If Sayaka chose to learn about the Witchbomb have her try to copy Rionna's magic, so that we can try to put the shades to rest, and have access to someone who can diagnose soul maladies on hand. Keep Rionna's body stored in Homura's shield or our hammerspace for the foreseeable future, until we've got enough other girls working with us, and stability, to try to rehabilitate her. If anything goes wrong during this plan, and Rionna looks to become combat capable again, immediately degem with all needed force.


I'm not sure how to phase, "Mami is right here and doesn't know about the Witchbomb either"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'll maintain the first thing to come into contact with Riona after the anti magic blast should be the anti magic enchants, both on her body and soul gem. Much simpler to tag her with a bunch of chains/rope/duck tape enchanted with antimagic than trying to put the gem in a box.

The anti magic blasts coming before the antimagic restraints is kid of optional, more about hitting any shades programmed to attack, rather than Riona herself. The important part is to neutralize Riona asap:

- Riona's magic, which can be neutralized by putting both her body and soul gem in contact with antimagic enchantments at the same time.

- Riona's body, which needs physical restraining.

I don't really see the point of the box, when something like enchanted duct tape seems like it'd be safer.



For the Witchbomb part, Sayaka knows there's a secret we asked if she wanted to learn, so we can just ask whether she chose to learn the secret. (Of course, this kind of puts pressure on her in an unfair way.)

Filraen said:
[X] Use grief to communicate with Mami, have her call for Homura to timestop now. Give Rionna no time outside of the privacy field to send commands to her shades.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also, Mami might automatically do this, but we can put it out there that she could tag both us and Homura with an invisible Ribbon to connect us all to timestop.

Eg.
[X] At the same time, signal Mami to tag you and Homura and have Homura activate her magic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Have you thought about a precaution in case Riona, just being a veteran meguca with tons of different magical powersets, manages to get tagged into timestop alongside us?
 
Last edited:
Onmur said:
Uh, that's a smart thought.

Given Riona's reclusiveness, I don't think this is likely to be a problem, and even, pretending she's staying away from Edinburgh for so long would be suspicious in its own right...

We're gonna need eyes on Edinburgh, at any rate. Somehow. :/
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Please consider it our next activity, after entering timestop and gathering our friends. Sabrina can do this, and she has a good motive to go to Edinburgh. A certain amount of investigation gives our morals strong support, a step that eliminates errors by gaining facts. There are also practical reasons involving long term safety. We spend some sweat, but if Homura is good with it that's fine by me. Let's try.
 
Aris Katsaris said:
I can vote in favor of detaining her until such a system exists, definitely. (In the case of Oriko, for example, I actually thought Sabrina's attempts to reduce her house arrest as annoying me in the other direction -- I thought that Sabrina was being improperly lenient towards the Kures.)

It's the "gem Riona indefinitely until we can try to rehabilitate her" thing that I object to, because as a human being she has more rights than that. Even if she *always* remains beyond rehabilitation, she still has rights as a prisoner. Such rights are not *dependent* on her being redeemable.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Gemming Rionna is the only way we can be reasonably certain of being able to detain her to begin with. Anything less leaves her with the potential ability to still pull something dangerous off.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top