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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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AuraTwilight said:
@Conjured Blade Freezered Gems didn't accumulate Grief in Kazumi Magica. Same principle.
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Mind, the Pleiades put a spell on the freezer to keep the Gems from accumulating Grief.

I don't remember if it's stated, but it's at least implied the Soul Gems would've continued accumulating Grief without the spell:


:V Man, Kazumi is such a bitch. :V

(Image cut for decency.)

Redshirt Army said:
In addition to what Onmur brought up, her antimagic didn't affect Oriko when we were fighting, and Kirika explicitly described it as selective.

Here's the cite:
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Here's the more fun, but also less useful quote of Kirika describing her powers:
Firnagzen said:
"Describing powers is hard, and metaphor is imprecise."

"Mine's like a switch!" Kirika volunteers. "I press it, and blaaat. Then there's these knobby things to change the shape and stuff." She mimes playing with a control panel, making beeping and clicking noises, while Oriko gives her a fond smile.
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Yeah, I know it doesn't contribute to the discussion, but cute Kirika is cute.

(Also, Kirika has used anti magic around us without affecting us, for example, when fighting against the Ishinomaki girls.)
 
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So the most efficient solution for keeping Riona contained/cleansed is to let Kirika keep her and give her more clear seeds. Otherwise daily or multiple times daily check-ins with her become mandatory.

Edit: I'm not sure about the freezer and cleansing now that I think about it though. Never mind?
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Aug 8, 2018 at 1:38 PM, finished with 143281 posts and 32 votes.
  • [X] You're starting to think you want to help her with this. Why can't you?
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable. If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
    -[X] You wouldn't put any preconditions on anything. If you succeed at helping her, then you'd expect her to stop doing harm that isn't necessary.
    -[X] Our morality doesn't preclude working with people who have done horrible things, and it would be stupid to not recognize that refusals to de-escalate are often based on valid premises.
    -[X] If she displays concern about knowledge of what she's dealing with getting out, then fair warning, we're pretty sure we have the vast majority of the picture worked out already.
    -[X] If she tries to assert that we don't have the capability to help her, refute her. In the end, if we couldn't help her, she'd've had no interest in the clear seed.
    -[X] If at any point it's reasonable, see if you can slip in that you're interested in dewitching. But, don't try to stretch things to achieve that.
    [x] Think out loud.
    [x] Why do you think that Rionna is so sure you can't help? You have two guesses.
    [x] First guess: Rionna has some problem that's even more exotic and difficult than cleansing.
    -[x] She seems to already have cleansing solved for herself, judging by her power's ongoing cost. She knows you can cleanse and isn't interested.
    -[x] You hope it's this because you're currently working on dewitching and were anticipating Rionna's arrival. You're not sure there's much that's harder than that.
    [x] Second guess: Rionna is doing something that puts her on Sabrina's List of Things To Fix.
    -[x] Is the problem with the means to an end or the end itself?
    -[x] You hope it's the means, because your entire purpose in life is to fix everything, and you're damn good at offering people better means.
    -[x] If it's the ends, well, you're always up for therapy. How does she feel about her mother?
    [x] I want to help fix things. Does it have to be a fight?
    [x] Whatever it is you're dealing with, it was worth coming out all this way here. At the very least I can hear you out. Rionna, why did you come out here? What's troubling you?
    [x] (If she's still reluctant) Try to encourage her to talk about her problems. You won't be able to help at all if you don't know what the problem is.
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable (ideally following this ordering if possible). If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
    [X] She doesn't want this fight, because it's a line she doesn't want to cross, isn't it? You haven't attacked her and nor does she think you deserve to die.
    -[X] If she argues this, point out it never had to come to a fight. She's been doing this for years - if she'd wanted to kill you, she easily could have by now.
    [X] Nor is it that you can't help her. It's because what she's trying to do is so important to her that the risk of trusting someone is too much for her.
    -[X] If she argues this, refute her. You are the only person she's ever found who can use the power she wants. She came over here on a rumour.
    [X] You're her best chance. Perhaps ever. And maybe she's been betrayed before, but there are things she just can't do alone, no matter how determined she is. No matter how strong she is.
    [X] You don't like what she does, sure. Maybe there are even more horrible things you don't even know about. But there's almost always a reason, and it doesn't mean she doesn't deserve help.
    [X] "Please let me help you, Rionna mag Aoidhe."
    -[X] Offer her the Clear Seed without the happiness magic in it.
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable (ideally following this ordering if possible). If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
    [X] She doesn't want this fight, because it's a line she doesn't want to cross, isn't it? You haven't attacked her and nor does she think you deserve to die.
    -[X] If she argues this, point out it never had to come to a fight. She's been doing this for years - if she'd wanted to kill you, she easily could have by now.
    [X] Nor is it that you can't help her. It's because what she's trying to do is so important to her that the risk of trusting someone is too much for her.
    -[X] If she argues this, refute her. You are the only person she's ever found who can use the power she wants. She came over here on a rumour.
    [X] You're her best chance. Perhaps ever. And maybe she's been betrayed before, but there are things she just can't do alone, no matter how determined she is. No matter how strong she is.
    [X] You don't like what she does, sure. Maybe there are even more horrible things you don't even know about. But there's almost always a reason, and it doesn't mean she doesn't deserve help.
    [X] "Please let me help you, Rionna mag Aoidhe."
    [x] Because the truth is... you need her help, too.
    [x] Show her Aurora. Explain Clear Seeds: the sheer quantity of Grief removed, the quiescent nature of the witch inside, how you've tried feeding this one hope magic and it seems to be accepting it.
    -[x] It might be possible to turn a witch back into a girl. This might be the first step.
    [x] One of the first things you said was that I can't exactly give you my magic.
    - [x] What did you want it for? What would you expect to be able to do with it that you assume I can't or won't do for you?
    [x] Mention something about dewitching. Maybe it's what she wants from us, maybe it's not, but it's certainly what we want from her.
    [X] Bring up our dewitching efforts, including the progress we've made. That, with some help, we might be on the verge of a breakthrough.
    [x] "Right. Rionna. I haven't actually told my offer yet, have I?"
    -[x] "Show me a grief seed, and I can make it last for a lifetime. Would that be the help you were looking for?"
    [X]'You're right I don't want a fight with you, but if you ever change your mind about accepting my help, you know how to get in touch.'
    [X]'Before you leave, could you examine this clear seed with your soul sense? I've been really needing a qualified second opinion on these.'
    -[X]Listen to what she says.
    --[X]Explain what you know. 'To my senses, this seed feels.... calm, peaceful. Do you think this could be a step toward reversing the soul gem's metamorphosis?'
    ---[X]Listen to response and break for voting.
    [x] Why can't you help her?
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable. If no line makes sense in a situation, or Rionna tries to leave, break to voting:
    -[X] You wouldn't put any preconditions on anything. If you succeed at helping her, then you'd expect her to stop doing harm that isn't necessary.
    -[X] Our morality doesn't preclude working with people who have done horrible things, as long as they're willing to stop once it's not needed. It would be stupid to not recognize that refusals to de-escalate are often based on valid premises.
    -[X] If she displays concern about knowledge of what she's dealing with getting out, assure her that you're able and willing to keep secrets even from very close friends - (gesture at Mami).
    -[X] If she tries to assert that we don't have the capability to help her, refute her. In the end, if we couldn't help her, she'd've had no interest in the clear seed.
    -[X] If at any point it's reasonable, or if she asks what our interest in cooperation is, mention that you're interested in dewitching.
    [X] Deliver points with force. Counter her negatives.
    [X] Tell Rionna that we need to make a soul gem. Her soul vision is important.
    [X] We are not fighting her. Punishment isn't our only response.
    [X] State that saving absolutely everybody is our goal. Helping is our strength. Even strangers.
    [X] Feed Happiness to a Clear Seed right now, in front of her.
    [X] Turning witches back into girls is important to us.
    [X] Proof - We can visit Anri.
    [X] Body fabrication is possible. Grief doesn't form a normal Magical Girl. Others tried it.
    [X] Explain we understand perfectly the evils Magical Girl life leads her to do, whatever they are. Nothing new to see here.
    [X] If any of that would help with her issue, it's time to deal squarely with us. Her wish is right here.
    [X] We can almost communicate with witches.
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Onmur said:
Mind, the Pleiades put a spell on the freezer to keep the Gems from accumulating Grief.

I don't remember if it's stated, but it's at least implied the Soul Gems would've continued accumulating Grief without the spell:


:V Man, Kazumi is such a bitch. :V

(Image cut for decency.)


Here's the more fun, but also less useful quote of Kirika describing her powers:


Yeah, I know it doesn't contribute to the discussion, but cute Kirika is cute.

(Also, Kirika has used anti magic around us without affecting us, for example, when fighting against the Ishinomaki girls.)
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Yea, and we're friends with the Pleiades. We have access to that spell.
 
Laurelin said:
Shouldn't our primary focus be to gear ourselves up, fortify Mitakihari the best we can and get ready for and defeat Walpurgisnacht?
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Not really. As Sabrina said:
Firnagzen said:
You nod in firm agreement. "And well - that's part of what we're here for today," you say, and extend your hand to Nadia. "I was going to break this more diplomatically, but just to bring everyone to the same page, Nadia, Madoka, what I want to do is to bring in as many magical girls as is practical. And to be honest? Killing Walpy stone dead is going to be a side effect."
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Our primary focus is to completely restructure meguca society in order to abolish Seed scarcity. To that end we're gathering allies and refugees, and the more of those we get the more girls we're going to have for Walpurgisnacht, even if not all of them actually join in. We're pretty confident that we don't have to focus on it to the detriment of any of our other objectives.
 
Torgamous said:
Our primary focus is to completely restructure meguca society in order to abolish Seed scarcity. To that end we're gathering allies and refugees, and the more of those we get the more girls we're going to have for Walpurgisnacht, even if not all of them actually join in. We're pretty confident that we don't have to focus on it to the detriment of any of our other objectives.
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I'm aware of that, but that's the longterm end goal that sort of encompasses all our other ones. Beating Walpurgisnacht might just be a step towards that, but it's a big step and arguably the biggest hurdle to overcome on our list so far. Keep in mind that if we lose even one person, Sabrina will consider it a loss (we're gunning for the "everyone lives and gets a happy ending" end, after all) and if we mess up badly enough to lose Madoka, Homura will reset and undo all our progress, or worse, given how much hope we've given her in this loop to this point. Dismissing killing Walpurgisnacht as "just a side effect" to the point of not thinking of it as our priority until it's done and dealt with, well, I dunno, that just feels like counting our chickens before they hatch to me. :oops: Don't run before you can walk and don't take too much hay on your fork, that sort of thing.
 
Torgamous said:
I mean, that's literally Oriko's power and she says we've got Walpurgisnacht handled.
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Her power also said that she was going to die, but we've managed to avoid that so far. Not to mention, a big part of the story has been Sabrina getting Oriko to accept that her precognition isn't perfect nor set in stone. Until Walpurgisnacht has actually been defeated and gone by in story, it's dangerous to assume it's already taken care of.
 
Torgamous said:
I mean, that's literally Oriko's power and she says we've got Walpurgisnacht handled.
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Laurelin said:
I'm aware of that, but that's the longterm end goal that sort of encompasses all our other ones. Beating Walpurgisnacht might just be a step towards that, but it's a big step and arguably the biggest hurdle to overcome on our list so far. Keep in mind that if we lose even one person, Sabrina will consider it a loss (we're gunning for the "everyone lives and gets a happy ending" end, after all) and if we mess up badly enough to lose Madoka, Homura will reset and undo all our progress, or worse, given how much hope we've given her in this loop to this point. Dismissing killing Walpurgisnacht as "just a side effect" to the point of not thinking of it as our priority until it's done and dealt with, well, I dunno, that just feels like counting our chickens before they hatch to me. :oops: Don't run before you can walk and don't take too much hay on your fork, that sort of thing.
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If I may, the way I like to explain us is the "monster Support Character." Walpurgisnacht is on track to NOT be a one or two girl fight. Far more than this, all of the people Sabrina interacts with are gaining every sort of synergy possible. Everything is being scaled in our favor. And I want more superiority, more preparation.

Make some real plans for our shopping trip with Homura, is the best suggestion I can give you? Homura in canon fought using her knowledge of modern weapons. But in fact her strategy had lots of room for improvement. She was using weapons with the wrong intent. The explosions could never deliver the finishing blow. We are opening her psyche to a little better efficiency. And you, us all, will be further powering her choices. Just that alone is significant.

Given the fact that we gathered allies, I am cautiously optimistic. Having additional foresight and hope on her side is an overwhelming advantage.

Our 'real' enemy is the one we fight every day. And will 'forever.' The Incubators are bound to humanity, and our task is to survive this along with every girl. I think of them as a high-level parasite. 'Fix everything' is not a military objective, it is much harder.

Better? (at making our goal the hardest setting?) How does your long term goal look?
 
Maybe irrelevant, maybe not, but I'm switching to

[X]Roomba

For the similarity to @PhDEevee's plan and so something has at least 3 votes.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Aug 8, 2018 at 2:42 PM, finished with 143288 posts and 32 votes.
  • [X] You're starting to think you want to help her with this. Why can't you?
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable. If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
    -[X] You wouldn't put any preconditions on anything. If you succeed at helping her, then you'd expect her to stop doing harm that isn't necessary.
    -[X] Our morality doesn't preclude working with people who have done horrible things, and it would be stupid to not recognize that refusals to de-escalate are often based on valid premises.
    -[X] If she displays concern about knowledge of what she's dealing with getting out, then fair warning, we're pretty sure we have the vast majority of the picture worked out already.
    -[X] If she tries to assert that we don't have the capability to help her, refute her. In the end, if we couldn't help her, she'd've had no interest in the clear seed.
    -[X] If at any point it's reasonable, see if you can slip in that you're interested in dewitching. But, don't try to stretch things to achieve that.
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable (ideally following this ordering if possible). If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
    [X] She doesn't want this fight, because it's a line she doesn't want to cross, isn't it? You haven't attacked her and nor does she think you deserve to die.
    -[X] If she argues this, point out it never had to come to a fight. She's been doing this for years - if she'd wanted to kill you, she easily could have by now.
    [X] Nor is it that you can't help her. It's because what she's trying to do is so important to her that the risk of trusting someone is too much for her.
    -[X] If she argues this, refute her. You are the only person she's ever found who can use the power she wants. She came over here on a rumour.
    [X] You're her best chance. Perhaps ever. And maybe she's been betrayed before, but there are things she just can't do alone, no matter how determined she is. No matter how strong she is.
    [X] You don't like what she does, sure. Maybe there are even more horrible things you don't even know about. But there's almost always a reason, and it doesn't mean she doesn't deserve help.
    [X] "Please let me help you, Rionna mag Aoidhe."
    [x] Because the truth is... you need her help, too.
    [x] Show her Aurora. Explain Clear Seeds: the sheer quantity of Grief removed, the quiescent nature of the witch inside, how you've tried feeding this one hope magic and it seems to be accepting it.
    -[x] It might be possible to turn a witch back into a girl. This might be the first step.
    [x] Think out loud.
    [x] Why do you think that Rionna is so sure you can't help? You have two guesses.
    [x] First guess: Rionna has some problem that's even more exotic and difficult than cleansing.
    -[x] She seems to already have cleansing solved for herself, judging by her power's ongoing cost. She knows you can cleanse and isn't interested.
    -[x] You hope it's this because you're currently working on dewitching and were anticipating Rionna's arrival. You're not sure there's much that's harder than that.
    [x] Second guess: Rionna is doing something that puts her on Sabrina's List of Things To Fix.
    -[x] Is the problem with the means to an end or the end itself?
    -[x] You hope it's the means, because your entire purpose in life is to fix everything, and you're damn good at offering people better means.
    -[x] If it's the ends, well, you're always up for therapy. How does she feel about her mother?
    [x] I want to help fix things. Does it have to be a fight?
    [x] Whatever it is you're dealing with, it was worth coming out all this way here. At the very least I can hear you out. Rionna, why did you come out here? What's troubling you?
    [x] (If she's still reluctant) Try to encourage her to talk about her problems. You won't be able to help at all if you don't know what the problem is.
    [x] One of the first things you said was that I can't exactly give you my magic.
    - [x] What did you want it for? What would you expect to be able to do with it that you assume I can't or won't do for you?
    [x] Mention something about dewitching. Maybe it's what she wants from us, maybe it's not, but it's certainly what we want from her.
    [X] Bring up our dewitching efforts, including the progress we've made. That, with some help, we might be on the verge of a breakthrough.
    [x] "Right. Rionna. I haven't actually told my offer yet, have I?"
    -[x] "Show me a grief seed, and I can make it last for a lifetime. Would that be the help you were looking for?"
    [X]'You're right I don't want a fight with you, but if you ever change your mind about accepting my help, you know how to get in touch.'
    [X]'Before you leave, could you examine this clear seed with your soul sense? I've been really needing a qualified second opinion on these.'
    -[X]Listen to what she says.
    --[X]Explain what you know. 'To my senses, this seed feels.... calm, peaceful. Do you think this could be a step toward reversing the soul gem's metamorphosis?'
    ---[X]Listen to response and break for voting.
    [x] Why can't you help her?
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable. If no line makes sense in a situation, or Rionna tries to leave, break to voting:
    -[X] You wouldn't put any preconditions on anything. If you succeed at helping her, then you'd expect her to stop doing harm that isn't necessary.
    -[X] Our morality doesn't preclude working with people who have done horrible things, as long as they're willing to stop once it's not needed. It would be stupid to not recognize that refusals to de-escalate are often based on valid premises.
    -[X] If she displays concern about knowledge of what she's dealing with getting out, assure her that you're able and willing to keep secrets even from very close friends - (gesture at Mami).
    -[X] If she tries to assert that we don't have the capability to help her, refute her. In the end, if we couldn't help her, she'd've had no interest in the clear seed.
    -[X] If at any point it's reasonable, or if she asks what our interest in cooperation is, mention that you're interested in dewitching.
    [X] Deliver points with force. Counter her negatives.
    [X] Tell Rionna that we need to make a soul gem. Her soul vision is important.
    [X] We are not fighting her. Punishment isn't our only response.
    [X] State that saving absolutely everybody is our goal. Helping is our strength. Even strangers.
    [X] Feed Happiness to a Clear Seed right now, in front of her.
    [X] Turning witches back into girls is important to us.
    [X] Proof - We can visit Anri.
    [X] Body fabrication is possible. Grief doesn't form a normal Magical Girl. Others tried it.
    [X] Explain we understand perfectly the evils Magical Girl life leads her to do, whatever they are. Nothing new to see here.
    [X] If any of that would help with her issue, it's time to deal squarely with us. Her wish is right here.
    [X] We can almost communicate with witches.
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable (ideally following this ordering if possible). If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
    [X] She doesn't want this fight, because it's a line she doesn't want to cross, isn't it? You haven't attacked her and nor does she think you deserve to die.
    -[X] If she argues this, point out it never had to come to a fight. She's been doing this for years - if she'd wanted to kill you, she easily could have by now.
    [X] Nor is it that you can't help her. It's because what she's trying to do is so important to her that the risk of trusting someone is too much for her.
    -[X] If she argues this, refute her. You are the only person she's ever found who can use the power she wants. She came over here on a rumour.
    [X] You're her best chance. Perhaps ever. And maybe she's been betrayed before, but there are things she just can't do alone, no matter how determined she is. No matter how strong she is.
    [X] You don't like what she does, sure. Maybe there are even more horrible things you don't even know about. But there's almost always a reason, and it doesn't mean she doesn't deserve help.
    [X] "Please let me help you, Rionna mag Aoidhe."
    -[X] Offer her the Clear Seed without the happiness magic in it.
Click to expand...

Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Aug 8, 2018 at 3:13 PM, finished with 143290 posts and 32 votes.
  • [X] You're starting to think you want to help her with this. Why can't you?
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable. If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
    -[X] You wouldn't put any preconditions on anything. If you succeed at helping her, then you'd expect her to stop doing harm that isn't necessary.
    -[X] Our morality doesn't preclude working with people who have done horrible things, and it would be stupid to not recognize that refusals to de-escalate are often based on valid premises.
    -[X] If she displays concern about knowledge of what she's dealing with getting out, then fair warning, we're pretty sure we have the vast majority of the picture worked out already.
    -[X] If she tries to assert that we don't have the capability to help her, refute her. In the end, if we couldn't help her, she'd've had no interest in the clear seed.
    -[X] If at any point it's reasonable, see if you can slip in that you're interested in dewitching. But, don't try to stretch things to achieve that.
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable (ideally following this ordering if possible). If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
    [X] She doesn't want this fight, because it's a line she doesn't want to cross, isn't it? You haven't attacked her and nor does she think you deserve to die.
    -[X] If she argues this, point out it never had to come to a fight. She's been doing this for years - if she'd wanted to kill you, she easily could have by now.
    [X] Nor is it that you can't help her. It's because what she's trying to do is so important to her that the risk of trusting someone is too much for her.
    -[X] If she argues this, refute her. You are the only person she's ever found who can use the power she wants. She came over here on a rumour.
    [X] You're her best chance. Perhaps ever. And maybe she's been betrayed before, but there are things she just can't do alone, no matter how determined she is. No matter how strong she is.
    [X] You don't like what she does, sure. Maybe there are even more horrible things you don't even know about. But there's almost always a reason, and it doesn't mean she doesn't deserve help.
    [X] "Please let me help you, Rionna mag Aoidhe."
    [x] Because the truth is... you need her help, too.
    [x] Show her Aurora. Explain Clear Seeds: the sheer quantity of Grief removed, the quiescent nature of the witch inside, how you've tried feeding this one hope magic and it seems to be accepting it.
    -[x] It might be possible to turn a witch back into a girl. This might be the first step.
    [x] Think out loud.
    [x] Why do you think that Rionna is so sure you can't help? You have two guesses.
    [x] First guess: Rionna has some problem that's even more exotic and difficult than cleansing.
    -[x] She seems to already have cleansing solved for herself, judging by her power's ongoing cost. She knows you can cleanse and isn't interested.
    -[x] You hope it's this because you're currently working on dewitching and were anticipating Rionna's arrival. You're not sure there's much that's harder than that.
    [x] Second guess: Rionna is doing something that puts her on Sabrina's List of Things To Fix.
    -[x] Is the problem with the means to an end or the end itself?
    -[x] You hope it's the means, because your entire purpose in life is to fix everything, and you're damn good at offering people better means.
    -[x] If it's the ends, well, you're always up for therapy. How does she feel about her mother?
    [x] I want to help fix things. Does it have to be a fight?
    [x] Whatever it is you're dealing with, it was worth coming out all this way here. At the very least I can hear you out. Rionna, why did you come out here? What's troubling you?
    [x] (If she's still reluctant) Try to encourage her to talk about her problems. You won't be able to help at all if you don't know what the problem is.
    [x] One of the first things you said was that I can't exactly give you my magic.
    - [x] What did you want it for? What would you expect to be able to do with it that you assume I can't or won't do for you?
    [x] Mention something about dewitching. Maybe it's what she wants from us, maybe it's not, but it's certainly what we want from her.
    [X] Bring up our dewitching efforts, including the progress we've made. That, with some help, we might be on the verge of a breakthrough.
    [x] "Right. Rionna. I haven't actually told my offer yet, have I?"
    -[x] "Show me a grief seed, and I can make it last for a lifetime. Would that be the help you were looking for?"
    [X]'You're right I don't want a fight with you, but if you ever change your mind about accepting my help, you know how to get in touch.'
    [X]'Before you leave, could you examine this clear seed with your soul sense? I've been really needing a qualified second opinion on these.'
    -[X]Listen to what she says.
    --[X]Explain what you know. 'To my senses, this seed feels.... calm, peaceful. Do you think this could be a step toward reversing the soul gem's metamorphosis?'
    ---[X]Listen to response and break for voting.
    [x] Why can't you help her?
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable. If no line makes sense in a situation, or Rionna tries to leave, break to voting:
    -[X] You wouldn't put any preconditions on anything. If you succeed at helping her, then you'd expect her to stop doing harm that isn't necessary.
    -[X] Our morality doesn't preclude working with people who have done horrible things, as long as they're willing to stop once it's not needed. It would be stupid to not recognize that refusals to de-escalate are often based on valid premises.
    -[X] If she displays concern about knowledge of what she's dealing with getting out, assure her that you're able and willing to keep secrets even from very close friends - (gesture at Mami).
    -[X] If she tries to assert that we don't have the capability to help her, refute her. In the end, if we couldn't help her, she'd've had no interest in the clear seed.
    -[X] If at any point it's reasonable, or if she asks what our interest in cooperation is, mention that you're interested in dewitching.
    [X] Deliver points with force. Counter her negatives.
    [X] Tell Rionna that we need to make a soul gem. Her soul vision is important.
    [X] We are not fighting her. Punishment isn't our only response.
    [X] State that saving absolutely everybody is our goal. Helping is our strength. Even strangers.
    [X] Feed Happiness to a Clear Seed right now, in front of her.
    [X] Turning witches back into girls is important to us.
    [X] Proof - We can visit Anri.
    [X] Body fabrication is possible. Grief doesn't form a normal Magical Girl. Others tried it.
    [X] Explain we understand perfectly the evils Magical Girl life leads her to do, whatever they are. Nothing new to see here.
    [X] If any of that would help with her issue, it's time to deal squarely with us. Her wish is right here.
    [X] We can almost communicate with witches.
    [X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable (ideally following this ordering if possible). If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
    [X] She doesn't want this fight, because it's a line she doesn't want to cross, isn't it? You haven't attacked her and nor does she think you deserve to die.
    -[X] If she argues this, point out it never had to come to a fight. She's been doing this for years - if she'd wanted to kill you, she easily could have by now.
    [X] Nor is it that you can't help her. It's because what she's trying to do is so important to her that the risk of trusting someone is too much for her.
    -[X] If she argues this, refute her. You are the only person she's ever found who can use the power she wants. She came over here on a rumour.
    [X] You're her best chance. Perhaps ever. And maybe she's been betrayed before, but there are things she just can't do alone, no matter how determined she is. No matter how strong she is.
    [X] You don't like what she does, sure. Maybe there are even more horrible things you don't even know about. But there's almost always a reason, and it doesn't mean she doesn't deserve help.
    [X] "Please let me help you, Rionna mag Aoidhe."
    -[X] Offer her the Clear Seed without the happiness magic in it.
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Raiseth said:
She... doesn't? A confirming quote, please, 'cause as far as I remember, she just tells us there is a threat worse than Walmartnight.
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Firnagzen said:
"It's not," Oriko replies. "A Witch, you can kill."
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Firnagzen said:
"Walpurgisnacht will be defeated," the seer says, eyes glinting in the odd, muted illumination of the time stop.
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Now that I think about it, I guess she could've meant that Feathers is going to pull one of those "big boss kills the smaller boss out of nowhere" type entrances.
 
[X] You're starting to think you want to help her with this. Why can't you?
[X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable. If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
-[X] You wouldn't put any preconditions on anything. If you succeed at helping her, then you'd expect her to stop doing harm that isn't necessary.
-[X] Our morality doesn't preclude working with people who have done horrible things, and it would be stupid to not recognize that refusals to de-escalate are often based on valid premises.
-[X] If she displays concern about knowledge of what she's dealing with getting out, nothing she says here on that topic will leave Mitakihara-Asunaro.
--[X] Cut to voting if that's not good enough for her.
-[X] If she tries to assert that we don't have the capability to help her, refute her. In the end, if we couldn't help her, she'd've had no interest in the clear seed.
-[X] If at any point it's reasonable, see if you can slip in that you're interested in dewitching. But, don't try to stretch things to achieve that.

@Firnagzen.
 
Kaizuki said:
-[X] If she displays concern about knowledge of what she's dealing with getting out, nothing she says here on that topic will leave Mitakihara-Asunaro.
--[X] Cut to voting if that's not good enough for her.
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:V Wait but, but...

"None of this will leave Mitakihara and Asunaro."

"... The fuck does Asunaro have to do with this?"

That would seem like such a random thing to say. It's like we're already commited to selling Riona's secrets to some girls she doesn't know about at all, we haven't even mentioned Niko nor Asunaro yet. :V
 
What she says here will be not be shared with anybody you don't think has necessary skills to resolve the issue?

Edit: Anyone you read in on this project will be discussed with her first and it will be treated with the same level of seriousness as an infohazard?
 
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[X] You're starting to think you want to help her with this. Why can't you?
[X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable. If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
-[X] You wouldn't put any preconditions on anything. If you succeed at helping her, then you'd expect her to stop doing harm that isn't necessary.
-[X] Our morality doesn't preclude working with people who have done horrible things, and it would be stupid to not recognize that refusals to de-escalate are often based on valid premises.
-[X] If she displays concern about knowledge of what she's dealing with getting out, cut to voting.
-[X] If she tries to assert that we don't have the capability to help her, refute her. In the end, if we couldn't help her, she'd've had no interest in the clear seed.
-[X] If at any point it's reasonable, see if you can slip in that you're interested in dewitching. But, don't try to stretch things to achieve that.


Okay???
 
Kaizuki said:
[X] You're starting to think you want to help her with this. Why can't you?
[X] Incorporate the following lines into conversation as reasonable. If no line makes sense in a situation, break to voting:
-[X] You wouldn't put any preconditions on anything. If you succeed at helping her, then you'd expect her to stop doing harm that isn't necessary.
-[X] Our morality doesn't preclude working with people who have done horrible things, and it would be stupid to not recognize that refusals to de-escalate are often based on valid premises.
-[X] If she displays concern about knowledge of what she's dealing with getting out, cut to voting.
-[X] If she tries to assert that we don't have the capability to help her, refute her. In the end, if we couldn't help her, she'd've had no interest in the clear seed.
-[X] If at any point it's reasonable, see if you can slip in that you're interested in dewitching. But, don't try to stretch things to achieve that.


Okay???
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Don't take it too hard, the idea was just a little funny.

Torgamous said:
"Don't worry, I'm only going to tell all my friends."
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"Wadda f'ck didja just say-"

"Excuse me!" interrupted a disembodied voice, "could you repeat that, but more clear?"

The Soul controller's eye ticked, her flask making a groaning sound on her white knuckled fist.

"Ah, yes, I didn't introduce you," remarked Sabrina, "Riona, this is Niko, she's keeping both video and written record of this conversation; Niko, this is Riona, and I think she was just cursing?"

"It's important to note everything down," insisted Niko's voice, "Miss Mag Aoidh, could you articulate your cursing better? Thanks, just proceed as if I wasn't here otherwise."

Riona's fists shook, eyes shining with barely restrained fury as she took a swing. Only a few droplets missed her lips, sliding down her chin instead.

"Who. The. Fuck. Else. Is. Listening?" she bit out every word between harsh breaths.

"Oh, you know," the Grief controller shrugged, "Niko here, some of her friends; Yuki and her mercenary team from Fukushima; Chouko and Rin, each leader of a Sendai group; Nadia; my invisible friend who's been standing behind you all this time; some other friends... Oh, excuse me!" the white haired girl shook her head, lifting a surprised palm to her cheek, "I thought you knew! You know? Just professional precautionary measures. Don't worry," she smiled kindly, "none of my many friends will hurt you."

"Unless you lay a hand on our walking infinite Grief Seed," commented Niko. After a second, a completely fake coughing sound and some rustling could be heard. "I mean, our friend," she corrected.

"Thanks, Kazumi," laughed Sabrina.

"Welcome!"

"But nevermind that, where were we?" Sabrina tapped a finger against her chin. "Oh, yes, cooperation, fixing things, being better. You know, maybe we could be friends one day..."

The self admitted murdered, worse, the one who ripped souls out of people and enslaved them as her puppets, gritted her teeth and listened to the white haired mad girl's rambling, for once not interrupting her every other sentence.

She'd sat and listened. For the time being...


"Thanks for everything, Niko," Sabrina commented later that night, her legs dangling over the ledge of her home's roof. She closed her eyes, enjoying the night breeze's kiss. "Everything suddenly went a lot smoother after introducing you."

"No problem, Sabrina," answered Niko's voice, once more simply ringing out of nowhere.

"Kazumi wasn't actually there, was she?"

A soft laugh rang out, then a cough. "Ciaooooo!" answered Kazumi's voice. "Of course not, do you think I'm dumb?"

"Ha!" Sabrina shook her head with a laugh, "that's pretty neat."

"Useful, too," continued Niko using her... her Kazumi's voice.

"You can stop now."

"Stop what?"

"Anyway," the white haired girl shuddered a bit, pulling at the hems of her coat and holding it close to ward off the night wind, "I think Mami's done with her bath, so talk you later."

"Ciaoooo!"

Sabrina ignored the faked greeting, concentrating on the Grief signature she knew to be Mami's, sensing her move around their room.

"... Has she moved?"

Homura Akemi shook her head, her long black hair fluttering hypnotically against the wind.

"Sayaka's keeping watch over Madoka-"

"Having a sleep over," corrected Sabrina.

"-so I'll be able to keep watch over Mag Aoidh tonight," finished the time traveller, ignoring the remark.

"Don't stretch yourself thin," Sabrina grinned, before turning serious once more. "And Oriko and Kirika?"

Her blue eyes meet Homura's purple ones, noticing the lines of stress around them, the tense way she almost glared...

"They've been behaving," sighed Homura, shoulders slumping as if in defeat.

"Great," nodded Sabrina, blinking as she sensed Mami's signature lower itself slightly and stop moving, "I need to go, though, was there anything else? Oh, wait," she blinked, opening her arms, "of course there is."

A tug at corner of Homura's lips was the shorter girl's sole reaction before she walked into Sabrina's hug, wrapping her own arms around her friend for a moment.

A minute later, Homura kept watch over a certain hotel, while Sabrina laid down to sleep at Mami's side.
 
@Laurelin not wanting to fight Rionna right now, and letting her go back to Edinburgh is perfectly reasonable. Attacking her before she leaves the privacy sphere, at least, is reckless and creates a lot of major problems for us. And it's not like we can't fly over to Edinburgh whenever we feel like it.

With that said, putting dealing with her off until Walpurgisnacht is handled sounds like sweeping the problem under the rug to me. Sure, you can rationally argue that it's just two weeks and she probably won't murder half the world in that time. But for us quest participants, that's a much longer period of time, and we'd be incentivized to just focus on other things instead of the Rionna issue. It's easy to not care about bad things happening on the other side of the world when your house is on fire right in front of you, after all.

Realistically, given how heated the discussion got before the lock and how strongly people feel about the moral implications of her actions, we either make some progress during this conversation, or we're going to have to take her down.
 
... huh.
Apparently, Walpurgisnacht can use dead magical girls as familiars in the manga.
Like, any dead meguca in the area.
... We should make sure nobody dies in Mitakihara.
 
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