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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Redshirt Army said:
194 words. Mutually disclosing powersets is in our best interests - our teams are well above the curve, and that both increases the value of a mutual defense pact, and decreases the burden of risk WPN would place on her team. And QB is already sharing Homura's power with randoms anyway.
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I'll note that Homura's is still going to some effort to keep her power secret. Admittedly, she kept it from ms newsbroker Nadia but, even so, Kyuubey isn't her only concern. Which makes sense really, given that IIRC, every time we hear a guca learn of her power and get into a fight with her they immediately act to counter it. With varying degrees of success.
 
The Phoenixian said:
I'll note that Homura's is still going to some effort to keep her power secret. Admittedly, she kept it from ms newsbroker Nadia but, even so, Kyuubey isn't her only concern. Which makes sense really, given that IIRC, every time we hear a guca learn of her power and get into a fight with her they immediately act to counter it. With varying degrees of success.
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Yeah, I'm similarly wary of revealing Homura's power without her say-so. Yes, Kyubey has told people before and might do so again, but he also might not, if only because they didn't think to ask. And knowing how timestop works opens up a wealth of options to counter it: there's a reason that Homure went 0/3 whenever she went up against Mami. It's also just polite, if she tends not to reveal it to everyone she meets, to respect her wishes and do likewise.

In terms of impressing them, it's just gratuitous. Griefbender + power copier + Mami already makes Mitakihara one of the biggest powerhouses around. :cool:
 
The Narrator said:
Yeah, I'm similarly wary of revealing Homura's power without her say-so. Yes, Kyubey has told people before and might do so again, but he also might not, if only because they didn't think to ask. And knowing how timestop works opens up a wealth of options to counter it: there's a reason that Homure went 0/3 whenever she went up against Mami. It's also just polite, if she tends not to reveal it to everyone she meets, to respect her wishes and do likewise.
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Well, there's a reason I ask permission first. It shouldn't need to be specified that without that permission we won't share info?
 
[x] Contact your team.
-[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss?
-[x] Permission to mutually disclose powersets?
-[x] Should Yuki come in person to ratify (and fulfill) the contract?
-[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.

[x] Spar: Agree.
-[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
-[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
-[x] Beyond that, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.

[X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
-[X] Who's likely to attack?
--[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy with attackers, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
-[X] What other groups are in the area?
-[X] Mutually disclosure team powers if our team agrees.
-[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no/negative groupchat consensus, break to voting.

[X] Payment:
-[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
-[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
-[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for ratification by Mami, tailored antimagic, and Airi.
--[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.

198 words. If our teammates agree, then... why not? I didn't think it needed to be said not to if they didn't, but made it explicit anyway.

It's kind of weird to agree to a mutual defense pact without knowing what the other party brings to the table in terms of assistance anyway, isn't it?
 
Vebyast said:
What do you think the harm is, and does it offset the improvement in our negotiating position?
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I don't think powersets should be shared. Just asking is likely to stress Homura, slightly hurt her trust in us, and of course there'll be a guaranteed refusal from her. And Homura's trust is like the #1 thing in the entire quest. Likewise disclosing precog is a significant risk and I don't like putting Oriko at risk when she's without power. Plus, there hasn't been a significant disclosure or indication that the other party is going to fully disclose powers, so if Yuki doesn't think it improves her position, why would it improve ours?

If we wanted to continue this line of thinking, we could add an aside to our agreement to spar, like "although we alone don't adequately represent the strength of our team".
 
Vebyast said:
What do you think the harm is, and does it offset the improvement in our negotiating position?
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Where are you getting that this improves are negotiating position? Timestop has always been Homura's trump card. The moment it's capabilities, exceptions and limitations are revealed is the moment others can exploit that and leave her in a position where she's most vulnerable. And Homura knows that. Without timestop Homura is very vulnerable.

This is something you do with teammates you can trust. Like Mami. We are nowhere near that level of trust with Fukushima.
 
[X] SynchronizedWritersBlock
Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Feb 27, 2018 at 8:21 PM, finished with 133391 posts and 20 votes.
  • [x] Contact your team.
    -[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss?
    -[x] Permission to mutually disclose powersets?
    -[x] Should Yuki come in person to ratify (and fulfill) the contract?
    -[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
    -[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
    -[x] Beyond that, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Who's likely to attack?
    --[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy with attackers, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
    -[X] What other groups are in the area?
    -[X] Mutually disclosure team powers if our team agrees.
    -[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no/negative groupchat consensus, break to voting.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for ratification by Mami, tailored antimagic, and Airi.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.
    [x] Spar
    - [x] Agree
    -- [x] Rules of nature engagement
    --- [x] Go all out (barring gem shots)
    [x] Spar
    -[X] You will be sandbagging, to a degree. You're not here to kill her or blow shit up.
    --[X] If she inquires about this, demonstrate Prima Luce.
    --[X] Don't even harm her directly. Anything you can do that will really hurt her, you can do and pull at the last second. Prima Luce would be overly hostile.
    ---[X] Other than that, pull no punches.
    [X] Ping Homura about mutual defense pact and that they're agreeing to Walpurgis as part of it.
    [x] Don't contact your team yet.
    -[x] An extended discussion in person will be better than than trying to brief them remotely.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force/escalation/collateral. Despite free cleansing, you wouldn't want to destroy anything too valuable.
    --[x] But goad Yuki, "Give me the word to cut loose and I'll show you what I can really do."
    -[x] Go all out barring gem shots (within agreed guidelines).
    --[x] Combat-density fog, Sabrina in a sphere of grief for armor surrounded by decoy shells, fill volume with high-intensity light and sounds, grief constructs materializing out of the air to restrain and attack
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Let Yuki know you'll be conferring with Tomoe Mami.
    -[X] What attackers does she anticipate?
    --[X] You're out to help all Magical Girls. You will defend Fukushima if needed, but given the option would prefer to make peace with hostiles, either after fighting or before it starts.
    -[X] You'll be in touch later after thinking it over.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Formally agree, then provide payment (including Clear Seed).
    [X] Vote in abbeyance, as appropriate.
    [X]Agree to the Spar
    -[X] Establish rules, unless the intention is to level the area of course. Rules should err on avoiding collateral damage.
    -[X] Inside the agree upon rules don't hold back
    -[X] Tell Homura or Mami your about to spar in case its a trap or something.
    [X] Defense Pact - Your Interested
    -[X] Clarify what enemies she expects
    -[X] Point out you can't make the deal here, thats Mami's call really
    [X] Prison Contract Deal
    -[X] Agree to provide the anti-magic
    -[X] Also offer cash haggle but be generous. We're trying to start off a good business relationship here.
    - [X] Suggest the defense pact can be finalized when she comes to Mitakihara to get the anti-magic items
    --[X] Get Kirika to make the anti-magic items to not work on you as well - if it can be done discreetly.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Explain details,
    [x] Null
    [X] SynchronizedWritersBlock
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Got rid of the powers disclosure thing in it's entirety. This is only done with magical girls you are absolutely sure you can trust.


[x] Contact your team.
-[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss?
-[x] Should Yuki come in person to ratify (and fulfill) the contract?
-[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.

[x] Spar: Agree.
-[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
-[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
-[x] Beyond that, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.

[X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
-[X] Who's likely to attack?
--[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy with attackers, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
-[X] What other groups are in the area?
-[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no/negative groupchat consensus, break to voting.

[X] Payment:
-[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
-[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
-[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for ratification by Mami, tailored antimagic, and Airi.
--[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
It's kind of weird to agree to a mutual defense pact without knowing what the other party brings to the table in terms of assistance anyway, isn't it?
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Even if we're going to, I'm coming more and more to the opinion that it might be better to discuss such things in person.

Honestly, given the timeline, I'm becoming more inclined to move the actual decision to tomorrow. Since an hour or two to decide something like this and go over the finer points... isn't much. And our friends aren't quite as quick of mind as we are. Plus less time negotiating is more time spent doing everything else on the iterniary.

So Imma do a thing:

[x] Contact your team.
-[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss?
--[x] You'll wait if there's no fast consensus.
-[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.

[x] Spar: Agree.
-[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
-[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
-[x] Beyond that, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.

[X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
-[X] Who's likely to attack?
--[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy with attackers, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
-[X] What other groups are in the area?
-[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no groupchat consensus, get back to her tomorrow.

[X] Payment:
-[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
-[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
-[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for Mami tourism, tailored antimagic, and Airi.
--[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.


Removed power sharing vote, added "wait till tomorrow"

EDIT: cleaned up a bit more in that vien
 
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Muramasa said:
Where are you getting that this improves are negotiating position? Timestop has always been Homura's trump card. The moment it's capabilities, exceptions and limitations are revealed is the moment others can exploit that and leave her in a position where she's most vulnerable. And Homura knows that. Without timestop Homura is very vulnerable.

This is something you do with teammates you can trust. Like Mami. We are nowhere near that level of trust with Fukushima.
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QB has shown both awareness of Homura's ability and a willingness to share that information with random magical girls.

If there is a belligerent group that would plan to attack us, which could avoid/mitigate Homura's power if they knew about it? QB would already be telling them.

I'm willing to accommodate Homura if she wants to not share her power due to personal reasons, but that doesn't make it a logical position.

Muramasa said:
Where are you getting that this improves are negotiating position?
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Mitakihara's collective powers are batshit powerful. Given both the increased percieved value of a mutual defense pact, and the ameliorated percieved risk in a Walpurgisnacht fight with such powers on thier side, how could sharing our powers not improve our bargaining position.

Moreover, how do you expect us to leverage their assistance for Walpurgisnacht most effectively, if they don't know what we bring to the table for that fight and vice versa?
 
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Redshirt Army said:
QB has shown both awareness of Homura's ability and a willingness to share that information with random magical girls.

If there is a belligerent group that would plan to attack us, which could avoid/mitigate Homura's power if they knew about it? QB would already be telling them.

I'm willing to accommodate Homura if she wants to not share her power due to personal reasons, but that doesn't make it a logical position.
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Kyubey has shown willingness to reveal powers in the general sense but I'm not under the impression this is something he usually does or that this practice is widely known. And I see no good reason to bring it up with a magical girl group we barely know let alone trust.

Mitakihara's collective powers are batshit powerful. Given both the increased percieved value of a mutual defense pact, and the ameliorated percieved risk in a Walpurgisnacht fight with such powers on thier side, how could sharing our powers not improve our bargaining position.

Moreover, how do you expect us to leverage their assistance for Walpurgisnacht most effectively, if they don't know what we bring to the table for that fight and vice versa?
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Click to shrink...

That's part of what this spar is about. To get our measure. Surely there are ways to get across that 'Mitakihara' is not to be messed with without revealing information that others can exploit.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Feb 27, 2018 at 11:00 PM, finished with 133415 posts and 22 votes.
  • [x] Contact your team.
    -[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss? No rush.
    -[x] Disclose powersets? Now/in person? Be considerate of Oriko/Homura.
    -[x] Should Yuki come in person to ratify (and fulfill) the contract?
    -[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
    -[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
    -[x] Otherwise, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Likely attackers?
    --[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
    -[X] What other groups are in the area?
    -[X] Share basic power descriptions? (If team agrees.)
    -[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no/negative/undeveloped groupchat consensus, break to voting.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for ratification by Mami, tailored antimagic, and Airi transport.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.
    [x] Contact your team.
    -[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss?
    -[x] Should Yuki come in person to ratify (and fulfill) the contract?
    -[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
    -[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
    -[x] Beyond that, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Who's likely to attack?
    --[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy with attackers, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
    -[X] What other groups are in the area?
    -[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no/negative groupchat consensus, break to voting.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for ratification by Mami, tailored antimagic, and Airi.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.
    [x] Spar
    - [x] Agree
    -- [x] Rules of nature engagement
    --- [x] Go all out (barring gem shots)
    [x] Spar
    -[X] You will be sandbagging, to a degree. You're not here to kill her or blow shit up.
    --[X] If she inquires about this, demonstrate Prima Luce.
    --[X] Don't even harm her directly. Anything you can do that will really hurt her, you can do and pull at the last second. Prima Luce would be overly hostile.
    ---[X] Other than that, pull no punches.
    [X] Ping Homura about mutual defense pact and that they're agreeing to Walpurgis as part of it.
    [x] Don't contact your team yet.
    -[x] An extended discussion in person will be better than than trying to brief them remotely.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force/escalation/collateral. Despite free cleansing, you wouldn't want to destroy anything too valuable.
    --[x] But goad Yuki, "Give me the word to cut loose and I'll show you what I can really do."
    -[x] Go all out barring gem shots (within agreed guidelines).
    --[x] Combat-density fog, Sabrina in a sphere of grief for armor surrounded by decoy shells, fill volume with high-intensity light and sounds, grief constructs materializing out of the air to restrain and attack
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Let Yuki know you'll be conferring with Tomoe Mami.
    -[X] What attackers does she anticipate?
    --[X] You're out to help all Magical Girls. You will defend Fukushima if needed, but given the option would prefer to make peace with hostiles, either after fighting or before it starts.
    -[X] You'll be in touch later after thinking it over.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Formally agree, then provide payment (including Clear Seed).
    [X] Vote in abbeyance, as appropriate.
    [X]Agree to the Spar
    -[X] Establish rules, unless the intention is to level the area of course. Rules should err on avoiding collateral damage.
    -[X] Inside the agree upon rules don't hold back
    -[X] Tell Homura or Mami your about to spar in case its a trap or something.
    [X] Defense Pact - Your Interested
    -[X] Clarify what enemies she expects
    -[X] Point out you can't make the deal here, thats Mami's call really
    [X] Prison Contract Deal
    -[X] Agree to provide the anti-magic
    -[X] Also offer cash haggle but be generous. We're trying to start off a good business relationship here.
    - [X] Suggest the defense pact can be finalized when she comes to Mitakihara to get the anti-magic items
    --[X] Get Kirika to make the anti-magic items to not work on you as well - if it can be done discreetly.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Explain details,
    [x] Contact your team.
    -[x] Fukushima proposes a mutual defense agreement. This affects all of us. Discuss?
    --[x] You'll wait if there's no fast consensus.
    -[x] Excuse yourself during sparring.
    [x] Spar: Agree.
    -[x] Clarify appropriate levels of force. Free cleansing aside, you don't want to destroy anything valuable.
    -[x] Unambiguously follow agreed rules. Escalate responsibly, don't risk civilians.
    -[x] Beyond that, don't hold back. Flight, armor, feints. Abuse nanofog, energy emissions.
    [X] Defense Pact: You're interested.
    -[X] Who's likely to attack?
    --[X] You'd prefer attempting diplomacy with attackers, either after fighting settles or preempting it entirely. You want to help all magical girls.
    -[X] What other groups are in the area?
    -[X] Share that you're conferring with Tomoe Mami. Share your friends' comments/concerns. If no groupchat consensus, get back to her tomorrow.
    [X] Payment:
    -[X] Agree to provide antimagic.
    -[X] Haggle, erring on the side of generosity.
    -[X] Provisionally agree, invite Yuki to Mitakihara for Mami tourism, tailored antimagic, and Airi.
    --[X] Provide Clear Seed - it's not contingent on the rest of the deal. Usual safety warnings.
Click to expand...
 
Muramasa said:
That's part of what this spar is about. To get our measure. Surely there are ways to get across that 'Mitakihara' is not to be messed with without revealing information that others can exploit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This isn't an either/or thing. If we do well on the spar, that increases the percieved value of our assistance in mutual defense. If we explain what our allies bring to the table, that also increases the percieved value.

And yes, certain pieces of information might perhaps be better left unshared - I'm trusting both our allies and Brinapilot to know where to draw that line. Obviously we won't be sharing specific details and weaknesses at this early stage, and I wouldn't expect Yuki to do so for her team either.

But for an alliance like this, a broad overview of the other sides forces seems like an utterly mundane and basic step to me.
 
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